The not-so-nano evil cluster build

[bfliflet]

What happens when you strap on a Vero29 to an evil cluster build with 40deg optics? Below is a test build for my 300g (96x24x30) for one of four panels to replace my XML cool white/ XPE royal blue array. The goal of this test build is to get a broader spectrum and control of individual channels. The previous array (24cw/24rb per panel) was intentionally under-driving the XMLs for better energy efficiency and color dispersion. My previous panel was 10" off water where this one will be 18" or more. I was tired of knocking off the optics feeding the fish...

 

LEDs per 8x8 panel

(1) Vero29 4000k running at 1000mA

(4) Rebel Luxeon Ms RB running at 1000mA

(12) LGB 430nm HVs running at 700mA

(4) LGB OCW 3up running at 700mA for each channel

 

Uncorrected PAR ratings at 48" were between 250-260. I'll add some comparisons tank shots between the old lighting and the new once I get the optics permanently mounted and test-hung. Depending on the thermals, I may switch to a drill-n-tap heatsink. The Vero is centered on the Makers strip but there are some small areas not directly backed by aluminum. A fan is a given as the power consumption is right about 160w per panel with everything at max. Ignore the wiring mess. It was to test the layout when the optics hadn't arrived yet. The Vero's reflector was larger than expected and I had to shift everything around at the last minute.

 

 

[NirvanaandTool]

Looks awesome. Following along.

How's the color with the OCWs mixed in there?

[Mr. Microscope]

Awesome build! Are you planning to build a couple more since your tank is 96" long? Following.

[bfliflet]

Looks awesome. Following along.

How's the color with the OCWs mixed in there?

It's hard to see final color output on the off white ceiling. I am trying the OCWs for a few reasons. 40deg optics are pretty much the only choice for 3ups. I am trying to keep the overall footprint small. And finally, prior to embarking on this I had purchased some OCWs to augment the CW/RB build. I also noticed based on Jedi based builds that most people seemed to underdrive the cool blue / cyan. The hope is the OCWs near max put out similar light to the underdriven CB/CY. Could still be not enough though. I may switch to Jedi's CB/CY LEDs if I don't like the final color.

 

Awesome build! Are you planning to build a couple more since your tank is 96" long? Following.

This is just a test build. I am aiming for 4 panels to each cover a 24x24 square.

[Mr. Microscope]

Could you throw in some links to where you got your Vero and optics?

[bfliflet]

It's not hard to find Vero29s. Finding optics is a challenge because Vero29 is a relatively new product. I was able to get in touch with a Widegerm rep, Jenny Zou, (dg6@widegerm.com.hk) who was willing to sell me their Vero29 specific reflector ~2$ plus shipping from China. They appeared to be willing to work with private individuals as they don't have any US based importers at the moment. The reflector was 11cm wide which took up too much of the panel's real estate. The one in the photo above is a Ledil for BXRA RS LEDs but the LED diameter is very similar to Vero29 (29.2mm vs ~31mm). Interestingly, even though the Vero is slightly smaller, it's a pretty snug fit between reflector hole and LED itself. It looks like it's going to handle the work until the Ledils for Vero are more easily obtainable.

Vero 29: BXRC-40E10K0-L-03 - Newark #62W5819 ~$45
BXRA RS reflector: CN12657_LENINA-M - Digikey #711-1209-ND ~$9

Luxeon M reflector: C12482_MIRELLA-50-W-PIN from Mouser #928-C12482MIR50WPN ~$2.29 * 4

Rest is typical stuff from LGB and Steve's.

 

Fwiw, I originally mentioned it was a Maker's heat sink. It's actually a heat sink USA t-slot heat sink.

[NirvanaandTool]

 

It's hard to see final color output on the off white ceiling. I am trying the OCWs for a few reasons. 40deg optics are pretty much the only choice for 3ups. I am trying to keep the overall footprint small. And finally, prior to embarking on this I had purchased some OCWs to augment the CW/RB build. I also noticed based on Jedi based builds that most people seemed to underdrive the cool blue / cyan. The hope is the OCWs near max put out similar light to the underdriven CB/CY. Could still be not enough though. I may switch to Jedi's CB/CY LEDs if I don't like the final color.

 

This is just a test build. I am aiming for 4 panels to each cover a 24x24 square.

 

True. Got a spare tank you can throw it over to test the color?

I think Ben is running his CY/CB @ 1000mA. Not sure about the others. I was planning on doing the same but I'm still a little bit away from building my light. I'm compiling the different components currently. But those solderless OCWs should be good for 700mA so the color should be similar to the underdriven CY/CB like you pointed out. Curious to see how it looks.

 

It's not hard to find Vero29s. Finding optics is a challenge because Vero29 is a relatively new product. I was able to get in touch with a Widegerm rep, Jenny Zou, (dg6@widegerm.com.hk) who was willing to sell me their Vero29 specific reflector ~2$ plus shipping from China. They appeared to be willing to work with private individuals as they don't have any US based importers at the moment. The reflector was 11cm wide which took up too much of the panel's real estate. The one in the photo above is a Ledil for BXRA RS LEDs but the LED diameter is very similar to Vero29 (29.2mm vs ~31mm). Interestingly, even though the Vero is slightly smaller, it's a pretty snug fit between reflector hole and LED itself. It looks like it's going to handle the work until the Ledils for Vero are more easily obtainable.

 

Vero 29: BXRC-40E10K0-L-03 - Newark #62W5819 ~$45

BXRA RS reflector: CN12657_LENINA-M - Digikey #711-1209-ND ~$9

Luxeon M reflector: C12482_MIRELLA-50-W-PIN from Mouser #928-C12482MIR50WPN ~$2.29 * 4

Rest is typical stuff from LGB and Steve's.

 

Fwiw, I originally mentioned it was a Maker's heat sink. It's actually a heat sink USA t-slot heat sink.

 

Wow didnt realize the Vero 29 you picked packed such a punch. I never really dove into the whole Vero line of Bridgelux. That's going to be beastly. I guess around 5000lm @ 1000mA?

[jedimasterben]

DAYUM, that's pretty beastly. I probably would have just used a BXRA 1350 instead of the Vero, paired with four M using Minnie and Brooke 'wide'.1350 puts out around 3K lumens at 1000mA (about 32w).

 

 

Hell, even on my current array, each half of my tank is lit by a single 950-B at 1000mA, four RB M at 1000mA, four Rebel blue at 1000mA, and 10x hyper violet, PAR is pretty nuts. Brooke W, Minnie WWW, 90 degree on the Rebels, and 60 degree on the HV.

 

 

With the superior phosphors of the Bridgelux array, you won't need any deep red and probably no cyan - Bridgelux 4000K phosphors are pumping more power in the 500nm range (surprisingly, even moreso than the 3000K).

[bfliflet]

Sorry for not updating recently. That happens when your power supply connection to the LDDs slips out and fries your Arduino... I did do a test fixture hanging this morning. I ran some PAR numbers and had to keep raising the fixture. I stabilized at about 18" above the water line but it may increase once the other panels are built. In terms of color it wasn't as drastic as I'd hoped compared to my Cree CW/RB combo but it is definitely richer. I'd post photo comparisons once I get the color settings on the camera to provide realistic result to see the difference. Also, dangling LDD boards from the fixture is not photo worthy. It's sort of funny to see a CW/RB combo look more 'warm' than a NW based evil cluster based build.

 

It was interesting that I settled in on intensity % settings very similar to jedi's purely based on aesthetics (aside from OCWs). The LGB OCW's red has a very minor contribution but makes the walls next to the aquarium look like their natural cranberry color. The LGB OCW cyan has a very green look to it. It's contribution is also very minor visually and slightly brightens the tank. The amount of LGB OCW blue is smaller than jedi's build but I am not complaining as the tank appears blue/purple enough to me already. If I could tweak it more, I'd like the cyan to actually look cyan. I do like the compact fit of the 3ups though.

 

Given the Vero29 is only running at an effective 350mA (way underkill), I may downgrade to a Vero18 for two reasons: cost and real estate. The reflector used takes up too much space and I'd love to squeeze a few more LEDs of... something.

[milfordguy]

Any luck getting in a new arduino? I am curios to see how the OCW's work with everything else. You're right that they really reduce the footprint of the build.

 

I'm trying to figure out where I would put the reds on my build, so it would be nice to be able to use the OCW's...

[bfliflet]

 

Any luck getting in a new arduino? I am curios to see how the OCW's work with everything else. You're right that they really reduce the footprint of the build.

 

I'm trying to figure out where I would put the reds on my build, so it would be nice to be able to use the OCW's...

I did get a new Arduino. The (solderless) OCWs are a mixed blessing with a t-slot heatsink. The added size for the solderless connectors makes efficient layout difficult. It is a net win for me because of the 40deg optics available for the OCWs.

 

After looking at the overkill with the Vero29 ($44), I ordered a Vero13 ($9). I plan to run the Vero13 at a higher current to get a similar output as what I was running the Vero29. I redesigned the layout by clustering everything closer to the Vero13 and providing more real estate for supplemental LEDs to minimize disco effects. The added real estate is going to house 4 additional 405nm LEDs from LGB per 8"x8" panel. Although they don't significantly contribute to PAR, they provide a portion of the usable light spectrum. According to Dana Riddle "chlorophyll a absorbs wavelengths to at least 350nm (Jeffrey et al., 1997). These (405nm) wavelengths will also excite fluorescence in many of the coral fluorescence proteins." I'll upload a picture of the LED layout after work tonight.

 

Attached is a spectral plot purely based on LED wattage. I need to tweak based on LED efficiency but it gives pretty decent results. These intensities are based on 1000mA for NW and RB, 700 for everything else. The y-axis represents the wattage(W) applied at each frequency.

[bfliflet]

Here's a photo of the clustering around a Vero13. 430nm HVs surround the OCW 3ups. I have placeholders for the 405nm UVs (currently on order) at 12,3,6,9 o'clock positions. Note the limitations with tslots in packing efficiency.

 

[milfordguy]

You're right with the T-slots, it makes placement a little tricky. Now I read above you were thinking of ordering another heatsink. Is that still a possibility?

 

It looks insanely neat now, if only it were possible to keep it that clean looking... This thing should be beastly. Do you have a tank build thread btw?

[Giga]

I like this build! I was gonna say that the Vero29 is way to powerful unless your mounting like 8 feet away. I use one and it's like looking at the sun. so I went with two Vero18's and 5600k bxra and the color is almost perfect match with the sun. I still can't xpress enough how much better bridgelux are at white's then any other company out there. I also added some other colors and a storm X=Perfect! Love this build too!

[bfliflet]

Do you have a tank build thread btw?

Nope. Didn't find nano-reef until it was already set up. But I do have a live aquarium webcam in my profile.

 

I like this build! I was gonna say that the Vero29 is way to powerful unless your mounting like 8 feet away. I use one and it's like looking at the sun. so I went with two Vero18's and 5600k bxra and the color is almost perfect match with the sun. I still can't xpress enough how much better bridgelux are at white's then any other company out there. I also added some other colors and a storm X=Perfect! Love this build too!

I didn't mind the Vero29's intensity. Jedi's build was a little too blue for me personally so it did balance things out. However, I didn't want it to wash out the colors and the reflector was overpowering the look of the cluster.

[jedimasterben]

Actually, you'd be surprised how even the BXRA 950 looks when paired with FOUR luxeon M at the same current, it's actually around 10-12K!

[bfliflet]

My last point of reference was old school MH -- so 5500k and 6500k. I am still very grateful to you, Evil and blasterman for all you add to this portion of the hobby.

[GHill762]

that looks like the business end of the space shuttle..

[milfordguy]

Nope. Didn't find nano-reef until it was already set up. But I do have a live aquarium webcam in my profile.

 

I didn't mind the Vero29's intensity. Jedi's build was a little too blue for me personally so it did balance things out. However, I didn't want it to wash out the colors and the reflector was overpowering the look of the cluster.

Damn, I can't get the link to open up for some reason, tried it in 3 web browsers and quicktime...

[bfliflet]

Here's a static jpeg. Hit refresh for an update. The HTTP URL should update automatically. Apologies to anyone looking outside of ~10am - ~10pm PDT.

[GHill762]

THAT'S AWESOME!!!!! everytime I click refresh the picture is different!!!!

[milfordguy]

Are your optics for the HV from LGB, and they are 40d right?

 

Your initial post said you were thinking of having these fixtures 18" or more off the water. Any idea now how high you will be hanging them?

[bfliflet]

Are your optics for the HV from LGB, and they are 40d right?

The HV optics are from LGB (XTE/XPG/XPE variety). They fit pretty good. With adhesive, they work great.

 

Your initial post said you were thinking of having these fixtures 18" or more off the water. Any idea now how high you will be hanging them?

I ran the same formula for my build that I ran on yours and convergence for me is at 33" ignoring corners. Since I have a 30" deep tank, I don't mind if I hit convergence at 9" below the water. So, I plan to hang them at 24" from water surface. When I did my test hanging, I tried them between 18"-36" and everything looked fine. Given the entire range looked fine, the final hanging height will likely be more aesthetic and I'll dial back the intensity as needed.

[milfordguy]

The HV optics are from LGB (XTE/XPG/XPE variety). They fit pretty good. With adhesive, they work great.

What adhesive did you use with the optics? I know that some come with tape, or did you use their "optic adhesive?

 

I ran the same formula for my build that I ran on yours and convergence for me is at 33" ignoring corners. Since I have a 30" deep tank, I don't mind if I hit convergence at 9" below the water. So, I plan to hang them at 24" from water surface. When I did my test hanging, I tried them between 18"-36" and everything looked fine. Given the entire range looked fine, the final hanging height will likely be more aesthetic and I'll dial back the intensity as needed.

Perfect, just out of curiosity, what formula did you use and how the hell did you discover it? I would assume it's something career or school related?

[bfliflet]

What adhesive did you use with the optics? I know that some come with tape, or did you use their "optic adhesive?

My previous build used a 2 part marine epoxy from Home Depot. It held onto the optics better than the heatsink leds. For the test build I used aquarium silicone. I don't have the specs on this particular sealant but other aquarium sealants range up to 450F. I think the LGB stuff is high temperature silicone also. If I have issues with lenses popping off because of temperature I'll try an automotive silicone used for gaskets. Silicone is flexible and easy to clean up.

Perfect, just out of curiosity, what formula did you use and how the hell did you discover it? I would assume it's something career or school related?

Nothing magical. FWHM specifies the total angle at which 50% peak intensity is reached. Trigonometry will tell you that

 

cotangent(angle_in_radians) = adj/opp

or rearranged

adj = opp * cotangent(angle_in_radians)

 

where

adj = height or depth of overlap (I've stated convergence but overlap is more appropriate)

angle_in_radians = ConvertToRadians(FWHM/2)

and

opp = 1/2 of spacing between lights or distance to side of tank

 

To cover corners, you use Pythagorean Theorem... Not work or school related. Just fun with spreadsheets.