Muck Biotope

[Growerguy]

I have always had a fascination with all the little creatures that have lived in my tanks, almost more so than the corals or fish. Then I found an article on Advanced Aquarist by Leonard Ho. Muck diving

These type of environments don't have lots of corals and are composed mostly of silty sediments, but the biodiversity is second to none.

 

So yes I'm going to attempt a Muck Biotope. It may not be appealing to most but I'm doing it pure for my own enjoyment, but figured I would document the journey for anyone that cares.

 

It may be a slow process (most of my hobby resources go to my main reef tank) but I have some spare equipment laying around. Now to decide what size tank to use.. I have multiple 5g to 20g tanks collecting dust in my garage... even have an old 29 Biocube.

 

Second I've been thinking of ways to create the substrate. My initial thought is to use Miracle Mud and sand (mostly sand) but I've been wondering if I would be able to use substrates most commonly used in freshwater planted aquariums. I may just mix all three substrates together. Anyone have some ideas or suggestions?

 

Until further notice here is an amazing video so everyone can get a better idea of the type of biotope I'm aiming to create.

[Chew_Magna]

The first thing that came to my mind when I read Muck Biotope was the type of habitats that people make for centipedes and such.

 

Maybe for substrate you could find some sort of mixture between Miracle Mud, argonite sand and the planted substrate used in fresh?

 

It appears that something like this would be a much higher than normal nutrient system, more so that other people's so-called "high nutrient reefs." It really is something to look into and would be really interesting to try.

[Growerguy]

I'm imagining it will be high nutrient also. Might be tricky to get things balanced so it doesn't turn into an pest algae tank. That's why I'm leaning more towards one of my 15g tanks. Still doing research however.

 

I think that is what Im going to use for substrate. I need to get some mud but I have lbs of sand and some black Flora-max left over. Watching vidoes of muck diving the substrates look almost like pebbles (almost like a cichlid tank) mixed with silt and sand or coral skeletons and sand.

 

Getting pictures in my head of sexy shrimp and nudibranches, interesting anemones, ricordia... Perhaps a decorator crab. Strange macro algaes.

[Growerguy]

I'm trying to figure out what flow and light is like in these areas.. It seems for the most part flow is a little less than reefs and light just depends.

 

I think Ill decide on light as I decide what photosynthetic creatures I keep and Ill keep flow somewhat low.

[Kiwi]

Maybe you should put in there some macro algae like caulerpa prolifera

 

the would help you getting rid of too many nutrients

 

Furthermore I#d try something like tubastrea… would be interesting, if you cuold make a system that would feed it without doing anything...

In addition you shuld be thinking about getting an air-filter, so you don't destroy these little creatures

 

greetings, Andy

[Growerguy]

Caulerpa is one thing I have by the bucket loads. Its not prolifera but will definitely be used. I also already have Halimeda growing well.

 

I was thinking about some tubastrea or a mandrin, creatures like that. The goal is to have crazy amounts of micro life so I wonder..

 

For flow I have 2 Pico Evos I was thinking about placing high in the tank (hoping most of the small stuff stays towards the substrate) but you bring up a good point. I have sponge fliters and wonder if I could work something out with those. The issue is I can't find anything on the net about a setup like this.. and I feel I almost need to set it up and see what happens and what does/doesn't work.

 

Thank you Andy.

[Kiwi]

Maybe I#ll try something similar in a very small range (1g)

There are 2 main problems I can see.

First is the Oxygen that's needet to feed all that stuff.

With not much flow I think, it can be difficult at night to have enough oxygen in the water…. could be done with air-bubbles.

2. is the nutrient concentration.

since the concentration is something about 10ppm max (as far as i know ) You should try to achive a not too nutrient rich system...

 

that's how I'd try: 2-3 airlifts to make stream, something about 3-4inch ''dsb'' (not really an dsb) algae, one half of the tank with quite bright light, the other half with dimmed light, temp 20-23°C (many azoox korals, hydroids…etc love not too high temps) and then let it go...

maybe crush some LR into the sand….

 

Andy

[Chew_Magna]

You could try a regular sump setup and on the return end do a spray bar. That way you can get a steady, slow flow in one direction in the tank, sort of like what you're seeing in those videos. Have the overflow on the left side and the spray bar on the right pushing directly across the tank.

[Growerguy]

A friend brought a good idea to mind about flow.. He suggested making a type of pendulum to make flow. Kind of like a small oar. Create small flow yet not damage the micro fauna or nudibranches. Will have to experiment with this idea.

 

Those are the problems I've been thinking about as well. Wondering if I would be able to up the air in a sponge filter to increase the flow. Would also help with Oxygen saturation. Also have ideas for a mild surge to increase surface agitation.

Definitely thinking a somewhat dsb and one of the reasons I was looking at mixing in larger grain substrates like Flora-max. As for lighting we are on the same page. I have a first gen PAR bulb that would light up a section of the tank and then keep the rest mostly dimmed light.

 

Crushed LR is something I'm looking into also. I almost want to see if I can get some premium LR with lots of micro fauna.. wouldn't need much at all so price wouldn't be as much of an issue.

 

Over all we are on the same page Andy, you basically just typed out all the things that have been going thru my mind all day.

[Growerguy]

You could try a regular sump setup and on the return end do a spray bar. That way you can get a steady, slow flow in one direction in the tank, sort of like what you're seeing in those videos. Have the overflow on the left side and the spray bar on the right pushing directly across the tank.

 

Something like that might be an option.. my biggest worry is things like nudibranches and pumps don't mix well. One theory I've been wondering about is having a siphon that pulls water into a reservoir, once it is full it will mildly surge back into the tank. Something like that... wouldn't have any pumps.

[Kiwi]

I'll be after this project… my 3gal seagrass tank has now light only at the seagrass side to bring there more light for the grass… quite a similar thing… just have to throw sume mud in there

that's a so coooooool Idea! just love it… (sorry )

 

I'd justsay: try it, and when you just have some problems try to fix them… that's the best, you can do, I think

 

Andy

[Growerguy]

I think that is the plan for now. Have to gather supplies and see if I can get some mud.

[llama roadkill]

If only you had a tank big enough for a Ribbon Eel...

[Growerguy]

One more awesome video to get ideas for what I'm going for.

 

If only you had a tank big enough for a Ribbon Eel...

 

That would be pretty awesome.

[Builder Anthony]

Sponges should do well

[Kiwi]

I'm no shure, I've read they need high flow, te keep them free of algae growing...

tube-worms should be happy in there

a seacucumber should like the mud also...

[Mike Savage]

Sounds great to me. It would be a great companion to a magnifying hood and/or microscope!

[penfold2]

I've thought about doing a tank like this for quite a while. Nutrients would be too high to do it in my main tank, but a small separate tank would be really cool. There's all kinds of cool things you could keep in a tank like this that wouldn't do as well in a typical mixed reef.

 

I got some "rock pool bottom crude" from Premium Aquatics quite a few years back that would be perfect for something like this. It's just the junk that accumulates at the bottom of their live rock tanks. Lots of fine clay/silt/organics, larger bits of rock, and tiny critters of all kinds. It's cheap (aside from the shipping) and you could pick up some cheap live rock rubble as well.

[Growerguy]

Sponges should do well

 

 

I'm no shure, I've read they need high flow, te keep them free of algae growing...

tube-worms should be happy in there

a seacucumber should like the mud also...

 

I'm going to try for sponges. That is why I'm thinking more towards figuring out some sort of constant surge for flow but without the bubbles. I'm going to be experimenting with some things over the next few weeks. I have some huge purple, green, and yellow sponges in my main tank. The purple ones almost look like coralline algae and some of them are on small pieces of LR. After I get this tank going and cycled I might try some, but that wont be for a few months. I also have crazy numbers of huge amphipods (the rocks look like they move at night... or like a scary roach infestation you might see on tv).

 

 

Sounds great to me. It would be a great companion to a magnifying hood and/or microscope!

 

Oh yes something with magnification will be a must have! This is also a reason I want to keep this tank on the nano side.

 

I've thought about doing a tank like this for quite a while. Nutrients would be too high to do it in my main tank, but a small separate tank would be really cool. There's all kinds of cool things you could keep in a tank like this that wouldn't do as well in a typical mixed reef.

 

I got some "rock pool bottom crude" from Premium Aquatics quite a few years back that would be perfect for something like this. It's just the junk that accumulates at the bottom of their live rock tanks. Lots of fine clay/silt/organics, larger bits of rock, and tiny critters of all kinds. It's cheap (aside from the shipping) and you could pick up some cheap live rock rubble as well.

 

That is my thoughts exactly. I've kept Frogfish in the past so one might end up in here down the road if I go with a big enough tank. Also thinking it might be fun to try something like a Decorator Crab.. Still have a ways to go to that point. I might use water from my main tank to start things but I kind of want to start from scratch and cycle everything properly.

 

Also thanks for the tip! Something like that is exactly what I'm looking for. I have messed around with Miracle Mud before but "rock pool bottom crude" sounds ten times better. I'm still tossing up if I should try for a piece of uncured premium LR or not. Mainly to see if I can get as many interesting creatures as possible.. I have around 30 lbs of long dead dry rock sitting in buckets I could always use.. Either way I should have most of the equipment I need other than flow (unless I want to throw powerheads in) so I should be able to splurge on a pound of nice rock and bottom muck.

[Growerguy]

Oh and I'm glad to see so many people interested. Thanks everyone! You are just making me that much more excited to start this tank.

[Growerguy]

Borneman Surge Device with a siphon instead of pump...

 

Or a

device that seems to only exist in Germany.

 

Look out I've started experimenting.

[penfold2]

Borneman Surge Device with a siphon instead of pump...

 

How would the siphon be created if there is no pump?

 

Or a

device that seems to only exist in Germany.

 

The bobbing plunger is a surface skimmer attachment for AquaClear filters. I'm guessing he simply adjusted the intake such that the floating skimmer is intermittently sucked down rather than just constantly skimming as it's designed. He has a small surface wave, but I don't think that filter has enough flow to generate any significant water movement throughout the tank. On a much smaller tank maybe.

 

Look out I've started experimenting.

 

Experimenting can be fun. I once tried a Borneman surge device years ago. I don't remember why I took it down, but I do remember it working briefly. I always thought a reverse carlson surge device looked interesting because it surges in rather than out which does a better job of moving the entire water column equally. Unfortunately it requires mounting a buoyant tank inside the display which is not very appealing to most people. Kevin Carpenter used to have the most amazing example of this on a monster tank, but it seems the description and videos are long gone.

[Kiwi]

You could try to monotoniously (can you say that?) put an bottle or something like that up and down to create a standing wave
But you'll need anoher pump..... (Ihmo) Just to get this laminar flow....

What you could do too, is, to take an large filter (or pump) on theoutside of the tank, oump the water from one side to the other

[Growerguy]

How would the siphon be created if there is no pump?

 

 

The bobbing plunger is a surface skimmer attachment for AquaClear filters. I'm guessing he simply adjusted the intake such that the floating skimmer is intermittently sucked down rather than just constantly skimming as it's designed. He has a small surface wave, but I don't think that filter has enough flow to generate any significant water movement throughout the tank. On a much smaller tank maybe.

 

 

Experimenting can be fun. I once tried a Borneman surge device years ago. I don't remember why I took it down, but I do remember it working briefly. I always thought a reverse carlson surge device looked interesting because it surges in rather than out which does a better job of moving the entire water column equally. Unfortunately it requires mounting a buoyant tank inside the display which is not very appealing to most people. Kevin Carpenter used to have the most amazing example of this on a monster tank, but it seems the description and videos are long gone.

 

I'm looking at doing the siphon similar to a siphon overflow box. The surge reservoir wouldn't be very high which could be an issue. I'm experimenting with this and wondering if I would be able to do two small surge reservoirs on opposite sides of the tank. Then I could time them so they alternate, wouldn't get as strong of flow but it would be more constant.. perhaps?

 

As for the Aquaclear surface attachment, that is what I thought it was. I have one that I used on an old tank and could experiment with it, but I'm thinking it wont give me enough water movement also.

 

That is part of my issue however, creating something that isn't an eyesore but is simple and works.

 

You could try to monotoniously (can you say that?) put an bottle or something like that up and down to create a standing wave

But you'll need anoher pump..... (Ihmo) Just to get this laminar flow....

What you could do too, is, to take an large filter (or pump) on theoutside of the tank, oump the water from one side to the other

 

I've been researching how they create wave pools. The thought has crossed my mind to use something to create waves like a bottle or plunger, but I would need to figure out an efficient way to push the plunger down and let go. One other issue that comes to mind with creating waves for flow is needing a taller tank so they don't spill.. I have a 15g high and a 15g long I'm looking at using, but if I use the high tank I lose a lot of surface area.. My thinking is the more surface area the better for a tank like this.

 

 

Thanks though guys! If all else fails I can try large sponges on the intakes of my Pico Evos, but that's just not as fun.

[Kiwi]

do you have some news for us?

I'l love to hera if it's goníng on

 

Andy