Achieving Coral Growth With Zooplankton

[rO.oster]

It has always surprised me the lengths aquarists go to devise various simulations of natural reef processes. The amount of ingenuity, effort, and expense spent on various aquarium devices and products is almost beyond belief. Aquarists hinge their belief that some bottle of trace elements or some new color temperature light bulb will increase the health and growth of their corals, despite scanty or non-existent evidence of it being true. Of all the many things that can potentially increase respiration, photosynthesis, and calcification - and have been show again and again to do so absolutely- feeding and water flow are the major players. Light, of course, is critically important as well, but aquarists by and large can and do provide enough quantity and quality of light for corals. Period. Phytoplankton, while a very beneficial addition to aquaria, does not feed most corals (Borneman 2002). Something as significant as zooplankton to both coral and coral reefs would seem worthy of the highest efforts in trying to produce, add, grow, substitute or in some way provide to tanks. I cannot think of a single greater accomplishment and advance for aquarists than to provide by whatever means (higher export and higher input, larger refugia, purchase, plankton tow, culture, etc.) significantly greater levels of zooplankton or zooplankton substitutes to their corals. I hope I am being dramatic enough by writing this, for this is among the most important steps that must be made to realize the majority of those lofty goals and ideals that are so often stated and desired by those keeping corals in aquariums. Similarly, I very much hope that the information in this article, and provided in additional works in the bibliography below, gives the slightest inkling of the predatory capabilities and importance of feeding in all corals.

 

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-12/eb/index.php

 

Excellent article, parts 1-4; and why dosing phyto isn't just for clams and featherdusters, its for all your coral benefit by growing/maintaining you zooplanktons levels.

[xerophyte_nyc]

Agreed. I feed the reef with different types of phyto daily, along with Golden Pearls in the 5-200 µm range, and decapsulated Artemia egs. Soon I will be adding an automatic feeder to help promote zooplankton. My Mandarin pigs out all day long on pods.

[rO.oster]

Agreed. I feed the reef with different types of phyto daily, along with Golden Pearls in the 5-200 µm range, and decapsulated Artemia egs. Soon I will be adding an automatic feeder to help promote zooplankton. My Mandarin pigs out all day long on pods.

yes sir, it was your thread and link that got me reading those articles today. FASCINATING stuff!

 

I definetly feel that a Manderin is within scope now. So much trouble with people trying to train them on frozen foods and the like, when such a natural solution exists.

 

More and more I see it now, its the diversity of the macro and micro fauna which allow for a robust and healthy system. Herbivores for algae intake, many different species, a living biological soup if you will!

[metrokat]

I am in agreement here and feed phyto almost daily to feed both the clams and the benthic life which in turn feeds my corals and fish.

I also feed the 5-200 micron range of golden pearls. The concept of the pappone method of feeding corals is also the same - fresh wholesome foods like clams, mussels, ground up in a blender to small particulate sizes so that corals can eat.

 

There may be one exception here. Often times some supplements or method of reef keeping is not just for coral health and growth, but also for vibrancy of color. Color, for me is just as important as a healthy coral. To achieve that if feeding alone is not doing it, I sometimes dose amino acids, lugols and other chemicals. It is possible that I am not doing anything beneficial, that there are mere claims from manufacturers. However as long as dosing them do not harm my corals, I am not about to stop. Having said that, the purpose of those supplements, for me, is not coral health or growth; only color enhancement.

 

Truth be told I over feed my corals significantly, and only somewhat feed my fish directly.

[xerophyte_nyc]

More and more I see it now, its the diversity of the macro and micro fauna which allow for a robust and healthy system. Herbivores for algae intake, many different species, a living biological soup if you will!

What the hobby still lacks is a real understanding of how populations of fauna change over time. There are temporary shifts in species growth as a result of the inherent instability of our small systems. Eventually, dominant species will emerge. We need to figure out how to promote the right critters. I don't think anyone has any real clue how to do this other than being consistent with feeding and with parameters. Personally, I feed lots of different sized food particles in hopes of improving diversity. Maybe it doesn't really matter what's in the tank as long as a particular niche is occupied and spawning???

[metrokat]

I definetly feel that a Manderin is within scope now. So much trouble with people trying to train them on frozen foods and the like, when such a natural solution exists.

 

More and more I see it now, its the diversity of the macro and micro fauna which allow for a robust and healthy system. Herbivores for algae intake, many different species, a living biological soup if you will!

Rooster, stop for a second. I believe you are stretching the original post to fit a theory you have. A mandarin will decimate a healthy population of pods, and a tank infested with pods in no time. These guys are constant feeders. Constant. They only stop when they sleep. Considering how porky the fish is, and how small the pods are, imagine how many hundreds of thousands of pods are needed to fill his belly.

 

Having said that, yes feeding your tank with phyto, food, providing hiding spaces, and other ideal environ will certainly help the pods multiply in the tank. No doubt. But unless you have a jungle of a macro tank, and a large jungle, with too many pods to even have clear glass, you might want to take steps to have such a jungle.

 

As an example, my friend KGoldy on this forum has a 90 gallon with a pair of mandarins. But he has a chaeto and mangrove channel with pods and dusters and a 40 breeder with caulerpa with no room to breathe. He has never trained his mandarins on frozen but they are fat and healthy. Whether just from eating pods or themselves learning to eat frozen also, I am not sure.

 

So it can be done, and it has been done. KG BTW seeded his tanks with a heck of a lot of pods and critters.

[xerophyte_nyc]

Having said that, yes feeding your tank with phyto, food, providing hiding spaces, and other ideal environ will certainly help the pods multiply in the tank. No doubt. But unless you have a jungle of a macro tank, and a large jungle, with too many pods to even have clear glass, you might want to take steps to have such.

 

+1

 

In my previous tank, I also fed heavily in a similar manner as now, and had a decent sump with macro, but I did not have the same swarming pods as I do currently. I attribute this to my algae scrubber which is known to generate ridiculous numbers of pods.

 

My Mandarin picks at stuff on the rocks about every 2-5 seconds for a minute or so, then takes a break for a minute. It probably consumes about 10-20 pods per minute.

[metrokat]

I call mine Draco, maybe pecker was a better suited name.

[albertthiel]

It has always surprised me the lengths aquarists go to devise various simulations of natural reef processes. The amount of ingenuity, effort, and expense spent on various aquarium devices and products is almost beyond belief. Aquarists hinge their belief that some bottle of trace elements or some new color temperature light bulb will increase the health and growth of their corals, despite scanty or non-existent evidence of it being true. Of all the many things that can potentially increase respiration, photosynthesis, and calcification - and have been show again and again to do so absolutely- feeding and water flow are the major players. Light, of course, is critically important as well, but aquarists by and large can and do provide enough quantity and quality of light for corals. Period. Phytoplankton, while a very beneficial addition to aquaria, does not feed most corals (Borneman 2002). Something as significant as zooplankton to both coral and coral reefs would seem worthy of the highest efforts in trying to produce, add, grow, substitute or in some way provide to tanks. I cannot think of a single greater accomplishment and advance for aquarists than to provide by whatever means (higher export and higher input, larger refugia, purchase, plankton tow, culture, etc.) significantly greater levels of zooplankton or zooplankton substitutes to their corals. I hope I am being dramatic enough by writing this, for this is among the most important steps that must be made to realize the majority of those lofty goals and ideals that are so often stated and desired by those keeping corals in aquariums. Similarly, I very much hope that the information in this article, and provided in additional works in the bibliography below, gives the slightest inkling of the predatory capabilities and importance of feeding in all corals.

 

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-12/eb/index.php

 

Excellent article, parts 1-4; and why dosing phyto isn't just for clams and featherdusters, its for all your coral benefit by growing/maintaining you zooplanktons levels.

 

You may want to read this article which is from Dec 2012, versus Dec 2002 ... also Eric wrote 7 articles on feeding which cover a lot more than the one you are referring to.

 

If you need all the links just let me know and I'll be glad to send them to you, but they have all been posted on my thread and if you do a search for Borneman on my thread you should find them all.

 

Oxygen has been demonstrated to greatly contribute to calcification and growth.

 

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2012/12/corals2?utm_source=nivoslider&utm_medium=slider&utm_campaign=clickthru

[albertthiel]

Rooster, stop for a second. I believe you are stretching the original post to fit a theory you have. A mandarin will decimate a healthy population of pods, and a tank infested with pods in no time. These guys are constant feeders. Constant. They only stop when they sleep. Considering how porky the fish is, and how small the pods are, imagine how many hundreds of thousands of pods are needed to fill his belly.

 

Having said that, yes feeding your tank with phyto, food, providing hiding spaces, and other ideal environ will certainly help the pods multiply in the tank. No doubt. But unless you have a jungle of a macro tank, and a large jungle, with too many pods to even have clear glass, you might want to take steps to have such a jungle.

 

As an example, my friend KGoldy on this forum has a 90 gallon with a pair of mandarins. But he has a chaeto and mangrove channel with pods and dusters and a 40 breeder with caulerpa with no room to breathe. He has never trained his mandarins on frozen but they are fat and healthy. Whether just from eating pods or themselves learning to eat frozen also, I am not sure.

 

So it can be done, and it has been done. KG BTW seeded his tanks with a heck of a lot of pods and critters.

+1 focusing in on just one part of the whole success equation is not the answer indeed. There is a lot more to it than just what is in that 2002 article by Eric B. which is also just 1 of the 7 he wrote in 2002 and 2003 on feeding corals. All links to the 7 can be found on my thread. And Kat you are right ... growth is 1 thing but there may be more to it for any given hobbyist and for you color is important and so that introduces another element and you are taking care of that as you explain in your other post

+1

[rO.oster]

I am in agreement here and feed phyto almost daily to feed both the clams and the benthic life which in turn feeds my corals and fish.

I also feed the 5-200 micron range of golden pearls. The concept of the pappone method of feeding corals is also the same - fresh wholesome foods like clams, mussels, ground up in a blender to small particulate sizes so that corals can eat.

 

There may be one exception here. Often times some supplements or method of reef keeping is not just for coral health and growth, but also for vibrancy of color. Color, for me is just as important as a healthy coral. To achieve that if feeding alone is not doing it, I sometimes dose amino acids, lugols and other chemicals. It is possible that I am not doing anything beneficial, that there are mere claims from manufacturers. However as long as dosing them do not harm my corals, I am not about to stop. Having said that, the purpose of those supplements, for me, is not coral health or growth; only color enhancement.

 

Truth be told I over feed my corals significantly, and only somewhat feed my fish directly.

 

Kat, I seem to recall a recent thread talking about macro algae growth and the natural addition of vitamins and amino acids into the water column by these algae "plants" as a sort of byproduct. I can understand the desire to enhance coloration and have vibrancy, even without the means to test the existing quantity present in our closed systems.

 

"Truth be told I over feed my corals significantly, and only somewhat feed my fish directly."

 

I think this is a very good method to do! In those '02/'03 articles, they talked about natural algae cycles and adjustments to the bio load. A few threads I searched (search functions fugged up right now blah) always went kind of like: Well, I decided to add phyto to feed my tank more, then I had an algae breakout, so I stopped. Well, it seems like your gonna experience algae, until the new balance is reached! It seems our tanks are perpetually cycling in response to the ever changing conditions, conditions which never seem to stabilize, rather, one factor always beating out another, until it too is topped. The article spoke of a good diverse herbivore CuC population to make up for the different algae stages, and it instantly made me think of reefcleaners packages (vs just 1 or 2 turbo snails)

 

What the hobby still lacks is a real understanding of how populations of fauna change over time. There are temporary shifts in species growth as a result of the inherent instability of our small systems. Eventually, dominant species will emerge. We need to figure out how to promote the right critters. I don't think anyone has any real clue how to do this other than being consistent with feeding and with parameters. Personally, I feed lots of different sized food particles in hopes of improving diversity. Maybe it doesn't really matter what's in the tank as long as a particular niche is occupied and spawning???

 

+1 Keeping it simple, and relating to what we can control and know, like you say feeding and parameters.

 

Rooster, stop for a second. I believe you are stretching the original post to fit a theory you have. A mandarin will decimate a healthy population of pods, and a tank infested with pods in no time. These guys are constant feeders. Constant. They only stop when they sleep. Considering how porky the fish is, and how small the pods are, imagine how many hundreds of thousands of pods are needed to fill his belly.

 

Having said that, yes feeding your tank with phyto, food, providing hiding spaces, and other ideal environ will certainly help the pods multiply in the tank. No doubt. But unless you have a jungle of a macro tank, and a large jungle, with too many pods to even have clear glass, you might want to take steps to have such a jungle.

 

As an example, my friend KGoldy on this forum has a 90 gallon with a pair of mandarins. But he has a chaeto and mangrove channel with pods and dusters and a 40 breeder with caulerpa with no room to breathe. He has never trained his mandarins on frozen but they are fat and healthy. Whether just from eating pods or themselves learning to eat frozen also, I am not sure.

 

So it can be done, and it has been done. KG BTW seeded his tanks with a heck of a lot of pods and critters.

 

Yes, I have read repeatedly what a challenge Manderins are. I was just experiencing an attitude shift from impossible to have one, to maybe plausible? Perhaps I am fooling myself still, given yours and KGoldys testimony. I will be re-birthing my BC29 next year when I finish my overseas assignment, and want to nail down all the things that need to be done correctly BEFORE starting. I recall on my last go, when I got the fuge/chaeto going how much of a pod explosion I had, it literally clouded my water up with them. I think this time, after cycle, I will focus for a month or two just simply making sure I have all the diverse micro and macro fauna available and supported in my system, before adding any coral, fish, or inverts.

 

You may want to read this article which is from Dec 2012, versus Dec 2002 ... also Eric wrote 7 articles on feeding which cover a lot more than the one you are referring to.

 

If you need all the links just let me know and I'll be glad to send them to you, but they have all been posted on my thread and if you do a search for Borneman on my thread you should find them all.

 

Oxygen has been demonstrated to greatly contribute to calcification and growth.

 

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2012/12/corals2?utm_source=nivoslider&utm_medium=slider&utm_campaign=clickthru

 

Thank you Albert for the link!

 

+1 focusing in on just one part of the whole success equation is not the answer indeed. There is a lot more to it than just what is in that 2002 article by Eric B. which is also just 1 of the 7 he wrote in 2002 and 2003 on feeding corals. All links to the 7 can be found on my thread. And Kat you are right ... growth is 1 thing but there may be more to it for any given hobbyist and for you color is important and so that introduces another element and you are taking care of that as you explain in your other post

+1

 

So much to learn still! Thankfully the holiday break has allowed me a lot of time to read and plan. Albert your thread count is so high in the Ask Ablert thread, its actually discouraging/daunting! I'll have a crack at it though...

[metrokat]

I was lucky that my mandarin came to me already eating frozen. He came in the same batch as a couple of others from the same LFS but he was the only one I saw eating the frozen I made them throw in. Regardless of that, I had a tisbe pod culture brewing for him for 3 months or so.

 

I'm hoping my GFO reactor and skimmer helps against any algae outbreak given my feeding methods.

[jedimasterben]

I was lucky that my mandarin came to me already eating frozen. He came in the same batch as a couple of others from the same LFS but he was the only one I saw eating the frozen I made them throw in. Regardless of that, I had a tisbe pod culture brewing for him for 3 months or so. I'm hoping my GFO reactor and skimmer helps against any algae outbreak given my feeding methods.

As long as you keep your phosphate under control, you really can't have an algae outbreak.

[metrokat]

bump

[rO.oster]

bump

 

So can we get some suggestions for Phyto sources for sale... dead and alive? I have read a few DIY phyto threads, cultivating 1 and 2 (green and brown) different types of phyto in the 2 liter bottles. It totally looks like a mad scientist setup!!! It just escualted from there, gutloading rotifers, rotifers to brine and mysis.. on and on!

 

So far I see:

 

DT's Phyotoplankton

Area51 Phyto

 

I seem to remember people recommending a 2-part phyto a while ago, in two seperate bottles, and the websight said that the 2 different species will release toxins to kill one another, so they need to be bottled individually....?

 

Do they sell Zooplankton?

[metrokat]

Live phyto : DTs, reef nutrition, algagen, Florida aqua farms, algae depot, phyto 2, dr g's

Dead phyto: reef nutrition, kent, brightwell, TLF, and many more

 

Yes, different strains of live phytoplankton should not be kept together.

[rO.oster]

So this sounds like a product best bought at the LFS. I see some brands (like Dr G's) which contains a few different species of phyto. Is this to be avoided in favor of a single species? Or in their "catatonic state" while refrigerated, they don't release toxins?

 

Do all bottles usually have a shelf life of two months? Can they be shipped 2 day express and reach room temperature for a day or is it an overnight shipping only item?

 

How confident are we that the LFS keeps these things totally refirdgerated from recieving shipment to storage? How confident really are we that the LFS shakes all the bottles up once daily to preserve the life of the phyto? (As you can tell I don't trust the LFS one bit, unless its for frozen Rods or Cyclopeeze!)

[metrokat]

I just got a fresh bottle of marine snow today. My previous bottle lasted a year+ but I will be using this one much faster sinc eI have been learning more about the product.

 

Ingredients
Deionized Water, Phytoplankton, (Nannochloropsis, Tetraselmis, Isochrysis, Spirulina, Schyzochitrium, Dried Seaweed Meal, Zooplankton, Citric Acid.

 

It was my understanding that marine snow contains aragonite also, this is merely an ingredient that helps phyto and bacteria find a foot hold before you dose it in the tank. One of the most popular methods of nutrient reduction in a low nutrient system and zeovit systems is coral snow (essentially marine snow or reef snow) with zeobak (microbacket7) and phyto. Seems to be a proven method for cyano reduction according to users of the products.

 

When you stir up your sand or blow detritus off the rocks the corals respond the same way as they do to this product. Because detritus and sand particles are foot holds for benthic life, when these are agitated to get into the water column (and look like snow, BAZINGA!), the corals are excited and eat.

[Belac]

If you guys are intrested you can obtain a large number of species starter cultures for phytos from scientific catalogs. I keep eyeing one of the bioluminesenct ones. One of these days I am going to actually order some. I need to get a few types going. Keep thinking I am going to start rotifers haven't found a localish source for a starter culture.

I have noticed a bit of an explosion in my small feather dusters since I started doseing phyto months ago. I am only doseing what I am growing in my farm. (Yeah it does look like mad science, but its fun.) Got a few local guys that want me to grow enough for them too so this may get out of hand here soon. I just went up to 8 two liters this week, I digress. I figured if I feed the tank the things I can't culture easily like the zooplankton will binift from the constant food source. I know most corals eat those rather then phyto, wish there was an eaiser way to do it.

Going to start cultureing pods here soon too. The tiny life forms like plankton are the hardest thing in my opinion to get a good popultation of in the tank. Running a DSB in the sump to try and help promote ome of the benthic life to get back in suspension.

I am a bit suspect of the nutrient stripping we try to do to remove algae may actually be hurting our population of creatures we cannot see. However I have no proof of that.

[metrokat]

If you guys are intrested you can obtain a large number of species starter cultures for phytos from scientific catalogs. I keep eyeing one of the bioluminesenct ones. One of these days I am going to actually order some. I need to get a few types going. Keep thinking I am going to start rotifers haven't found a localish source for a starter culture.I have noticed a bit of an explosion in my small feather dusters since I started doseing phyto months ago. I am only doseing what I am growing in my farm. (Yeah it does look like mad science, but its fun.) Got a few local guys that want me to grow enough for them too so this may get out of hand here soon. I just went up to 8 two liters this week, I digress. I figured if I feed the tank the things I can't culture easily like the zooplankton will binift from the constant food source. I know most corals eat those rather then phyto, wish there was an eaiser way to do it.Going to start cultureing pods here soon too. The tiny life forms like plankton are the hardest thing in my opinion to get a good popultation of in the tank. Running a DSB in the sump to try and help promote ome of the benthic life to get back in suspension.I am a bit suspect of the nutrient stripping we try to do to remove algae may actually be hurting our population of creatures we cannot see. However I have no proof of that.

I'm interested in starting a brown alga culture and was considering placing an order with Florida aqua farms or algae depot. I would appreciate links to the scientific catalogs you mentioned.

 

Feather dusters eat live phytoplankton exclusively to live. They will eat other things to use for building their tubes.

[Belac]

Honestly I don't remember what links I looked at now other then this one. They have the bioluminescent algaes, Pyrocystis fusiformis, Pyrocystis noctiluca, and Pyrocystis lunula. I can't remember which one I decided would be the best I really should have written it down...

I also had a friend who is a biology teacher who looked through her catalog, she told me that there were a good number of phyto on the list.
So If you have any connections to biology departments might try them.

[xerophyte_nyc]

Feather dusters eat live phytoplankton exclusively to live. They will eat other things to use for building their tubes.

I kept large dusters alive and well for 18 months with dosing of dead phyto, until Hurricane Sandy. A starving duster will shed its crown, sometimes several times, until it runs out of energy. Undoubtedly live phyto is a better food source but IME dead phyto worked well. Its a specific particle size that determines the duster's food source.

 

Add BrineShrimpDirect.com as another source of phyto. Their dead product does not contain glycerin.

[rO.oster]

When you stir up your sand or blow detritus off the rocks the corals respond the same way as they do to this product. Because detritus and sand particles are foot holds for benthic life, when these are agitated to get into the water column (and look like snow, BAZINGA!), the corals are excited and eat.

 

Its interesting you say this, as one of the pages in the aforementioned article details the importance of organic waste particulate matter in the water column:

 

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-03/eb/index.php

 

It seems like Marine Snow would help accomplish this a bit more than just stirring up your sandbed, but perhaps instead of vacuuming a partial area of the sandbed during a WC, an occasional whisking of the sand bed/baster blasting of the scape can help release some detritus and particulate matter that would be consumed. I think in combo with a functioning skimming process/floss filtering, its not a bad way to keep the bed from becoming a dead rotted layer, whilst feeding the system a non conventional food source, and still being able to extract the excesses via skimming.

 

I am a bit suspect of the nutrient stripping we try to do to remove algae may actually be hurting our population of creatures we cannot see. However I have no proof of that.

 

The trend definitely seems to be in this direction. It will be hard to break through the old assumptions, which really may not be that old at all. A colleague at work always states that a grossly oversize skimmer is always his go to for a maintaining a healthy reef environment. One thing is for sure, achieving the favorable balance offered by the ocean in such small volumes as ours is difficult to achieve, some thing always dominates.

[Belac]

Its interesting you say this, as one of the pages in the aforementioned article details the importance of organic waste particulate matter in the water column:

 

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-03/eb/index.php

 

It seems like Marine Snow would help accomplish this a bit more than just stirring up your sandbed, but perhaps instead of vacuuming a partial area of the sandbed during a WC, an occasional whisking of the sand bed/baster blasting of the scape can help release some detritus and particulate matter that would be consumed. I think in combo with a functioning skimming process/floss filtering, its not a bad way to keep the bed from becoming a dead rotted layer, whilst feeding the system a non conventional food source, and still being able to extract the excesses via skimming.

 

My suspisions come from the fact that I got back into aquariums because of planted tanks. There are a good many people who never vacume the substrate in these tanks. For several reasons such as, distrubing roots, releasing iorn rich base substrates, nocking food spikes out from under some types of plants. All the types of ferts if released into the water column pose a threat of massive blooms of undesirable things, even to the point the water turns green to the point of pea soup from phytoplankton. I have never vacumed my current main planted tank. (I have spot cleaned some of the other smaller systems.) Mostly because I have small shrimp in the big system and I have read several articles about how the babies need tiny food/life forms to eat. Most of those articles suggest you never keep the young in a compleatly clean tank. They need the waist and left over food to eat and/or pick tiny life forms to eat out of.

 

I do occasionally stir up that tank too and the filters pick up a lot of the excess in the water, then I export it out at next water change.

 

 

I have yet to vacume the bed of my reef tank either, its been up a year. I do stir about 1/4 of it from time to time by blasting it with a turkey baster, corals have a snack, filter sucks up a lot of it, some ends up in the sump, and the skimmer pulls out the last bit that didn't settle out. Seems to be working pretty good so far my levels never spike unless something dies (has happened a few times, as with every system.)

 

I think your idea of wisking up the sand is a good idea.

 

I agree that we are shooting for ideal stable systems. What exactly that looks like varies according to the opinions of those involved in the upkeep of the tank. I have heard of a tank that was at the 5 year mark that had never had a water change, just occasional additions of RODI and salt water as needed to mantain the salinty lost to creep. The pictures I saw were most impressive. Not sure I agree with it being a good idea. I just use it as an example of what an opnion of a hobbiest was, and that he got it to balance out.

 

Sometimes old ideas are good, sometimes they are bad. It will be intresting to see what comes of the over sized skimmer idea.

 

Any way we digress a bit. I love phyto it is fun, makes my tank happy, and it smells good. There we are back on track