printerdown01 Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Hey all, I have been dosing my tank with bionic to raise my calc and alk levels. I am currently sitting at 7.5 in alk and at 350 in calc. I keep increasing the amount of bionic I add to the tank. I have been adding it everyday to every other day. I am currently adding about 7 ml of each every time and my numbers are not budging (hardly moved at all in last two weeks). I have a ten gallon tank with probably 8 gals of water in it. The bottle says not to exceed 1 ml per gallon during a 24 hour period. I am on week three of this heavy dosage. I am used to hardly adding anything to my nano and usually have to cut the rec dosage in 1/2 so adding this much is terrifying to me. Any ideas why the meter isn't moving? I am using new Red Sea test kits. I highly doubt it is the kits... Link to comment
Nano sapiens Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 What is your mg level?How many corals do you have in the tank? ^^ Here's someone with a similar issue: http://www.bostonreefers.org/forums/showth...m-vs-cal-alk-mg Link to comment
SoCalJake Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Ca doesn't even register on tests for me. I quit dosing the Alk part because at 1:1 with the Ca part my pH was through the roof... like 8.5+. Just doing the Ca part on advice from LFS but whole thing might just be Mg. I don't have a Mg kit so I'll see if LFS guy will do it for free... might be selling me some Mg anyway. I'm at 1ml Ca/2gallon just to get Ca to register. The only Mg is whatever is in Tropic Marin. Link to comment
metrokat Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Ca doesn't even register on tests for me. I quit dosing the Alk part because at 1:1 with the Ca part my pH was through the roof... like 8.5+. Just doing the Ca part on advice from LFS but whole thing might just be Mg. I don't have a Mg kit so I'll see if LFS guy will do it for free... might be selling me some Mg anyway. I'm at 1ml Ca/2gallon just to get Ca to register. The only Mg is whatever is in Tropic Marin. Try baking soda for the alk. It lower PH and adds alkalinity. Epsom salts for the mag. Link to comment
Rrudo74901 Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 OP, you need to check the magnesium levels. Magnesium allows the water to "hold" onto more alk and calc. I am guessing the mag is low, and the alk you are adding should make it jump 2.07 dkh, but it isn't. The calc is propabaly precipitating out due to the inability of the water to hold onto both. Read this, it's a bit complicated but will explain the relationship of the three main components and why these elements precipitate out. http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-04/rhf/feature/index.php Check ph, calc, mag and alk again and repost. Link to comment
printerdown01 Posted September 12, 2012 Author Share Posted September 12, 2012 My mag levels are at 1,340 on my last test (mid August) -which was two doses of mag ago. While not super high; I don't think it is low enough to be the cause... ? I have 4 SPS frags. I don't know how much bionic people usually dose, but I have a hard time believing that the stuff is so weak that 4 frags are choking down 6-7 mls a day... After many years in the hobby this particular tank continues to be a total mystery to me. Is 1340 low enough to cuase my alk to come back down to 7.5 again and again? How much are you all dosing with your bionic? And do you see an up tick? If I measure the water an hour or so after the dose I get much higher readings (obviously) but then they always seem to sink back down to the prior levels. Link to comment
metrokat Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Do you have a lot of coralline? Halimeda? Have you tried the calculators to see if you are dosing appropriate amounts? Link to comment
Rrudo74901 Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I started dosing Bionic 2 part about 4 months ago after I lost an expensive hammer due to low levels of everything. I obviously didn't know about the alk, calc and mag levels. The first 2-3 months of dosing, I needed about 10ml of calc everyday and about the same of alk every onther day to keep the levels. I stopped doing water changes back on 6/4. When I did the last WC, I had the calc precip out immediately so as long as my waste levels didn't creep up, I just left it alone. Now, the water "holds" it's levels much longer inbetween dosing. I don't know whether the sand and rock have absorbed some of the elements and therefore it stays longer, but now I dose about every 3rd day and adjust if the levels fall. I have switched to Saechem Ion series for calc and mag and still have some Bionic part 1, alk, left that I am using. It is possible in a highly populated system that you "use" 1-2 dkh/day or 25 ppm calc/day. Are you having any issues with the pH? IMO, your mag isn't low enough to be a problem. If you want, just dose the alk to get it above 8.0. If you see some precipitation or a drop in the calc number, then dose a bit of magnesium. Raising the mag will allow the water to sustain higher alk and calc levels. I keep my mag at 1400-1450 and haven't had any issues. Link to comment
printerdown01 Posted September 26, 2012 Author Share Posted September 26, 2012 Still having same issues. Mag is up to 1500 and I still can't get the Alk to hold. Any ideas? The calcium will go up but drops back down after a few days -presumably because there is no Alk to balance it? I have switched to red sea's Calc and Alk for two reasons 1) to see if it would make any difference and 2) so that I wasn't continuing to dump a ton of other minerals and metals in the quantities I was having to add with bionic. Normally I would be stoked to be using such a balanced product that adds so much. But the last thing I need at this point is an iodine or iron overdose simply because I keep having to add a two part Alk/Calc. I have been using the Red Sea stuff for a week. With the quantity added I should have been back to levels 2x over by now... All I am succeeding at is driving my pH through the roof every morning. Try to space it out but it still takes its toll on my pH. Feeling pretty desperate and frustrated. It has been a while since I was really stumped/frustrated in the hobby! This has months of not being able to get these levels up to par... I just don't get it. Link to comment
nano_tank Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 What test kit are you using for Cal and Alk? I had API test kits and they were useless. I'm using Salifert now and I'm certain my Alk test is within + / -.3 as it comes with a Regent to test against and the API was off by 2 on 1 Kit and 3 on the other kit! My API Calcium test was only off by 20 though so it wasn't as bad which basically means it all boils down to whether you have a bad test kit or not. Mag of over 1300, ALK and CA should be able to increase without issues of precipitating the other. Link to comment
printerdown01 Posted September 26, 2012 Author Share Posted September 26, 2012 I'm using the Red Sea pro. It is a pretty reliable test... Pretty serious titration tests. there is a bit more oppertunity for human error on the calc test, but i would have to be a bone head to mess up the alk kit. the test kits have checed out against others in the past -checked sbout 3 monts ago. But at this point anything is possible. Really am grasping at straws at this point. Link to comment
printerdown01 Posted September 26, 2012 Author Share Posted September 26, 2012 I'm clueless. My last guess was that I had a bad batch of bionic -which I have NEVER heard of anyone having. But the Red Sea stuff is giving me the same results. So it isn't the additive either... Never seen Alk just refuse to go any higher than 7.8. It doesn't make sense to my little head (and its understanding of tank chemistry). It can drop pretty rapidly if that helps anyone... If I skip a day or add only a little Alk two days in a row it can drop to 6._ in no time. Which of course is even more frustrating, lol. Just when I think I have it all down this tank throws me a huge curve ball. Link to comment
nano_tank Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 I'm clueless. My last guess was that I had a bad batch of bionic -which I have NEVER heard of anyone having. But the Red Sea stuff is giving me the same results. So it isn't the additive either... Never seen Alk just refuse to go any higher than 7.8. It doesn't make sense to my little head (and its understanding of tank chemistry). It can drop pretty rapidly if that helps anyone... If I skip a day or add only a little Alk two days in a row it can drop to 6._ in no time. Which of course is even more frustrating, lol. Just when I think I have it all down this tank throws me a huge curve ball. Just think if your Test kit is reporting the # off by 3 DKH, and the real # is 11 vs 8 and your corals are consuming Alk, it could drop and will report lower # accordingly but doesn't mean it's accurate. Best is to test it against a Alk Regent that is specified at certain set level or bring it to a LFS to compare against their results. I know it was very frustrating for me and I had to go thru 2 API test kit before I realize it was junk since I couldn't figure out why my SPS wasn't happy with ALK level of 8-9 but the reality was that it was Alk of 11-12 which cause SPS burnt tips since I was running a Ultra Low Nutrient System with Bio pellets. which works best with ALK at 7-8 Link to comment
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