What should the salinity be in a coldwater tank?

[Coralkeeper]

What should the salinity be in a coldwater tank?

[fiction101]

The same as the ocean.

[Menace]

The same as the ocean.

 

LOL the ocean had diferent salinity depending on the heat evaperating water and sepositing it in colder climates so i would say it's lower than in the tropics (where all the corals we get come from).

 

What region of cold water is you'r tank going to be for?

 

I'm in seattle and could check salinity in the Pacific NW waters for ya but you'll realy have to get a salinity reading from the area that you'r livestock will be from..

[Coralkeeper]

LOL the ocean had diferent salinity depending on the heat evaperating water and sepositing it in colder climates so i would say it's lower than in the tropics (where all the corals we get come from).

 

What region of cold water is you'r tank going to be for?

 

I'm in seattle and could check salinity in the Pacific NW waters for ya but you'll realy have to get a salinity reading from the area that you'r livestock will be from..

The CA coast.

[modularduck]

lots of cold water info here and hes super cool so if you have questions you can email him.

 

http://www.oregonreef.com/

[jeremai]

LOL the ocean had diferent salinity depending on the heat evaperating water and sepositing it in colder climates so i would say it's lower than in the tropics (where all the corals we get come from).

 

What region of cold water is you'r tank going to be for?

 

I'm in seattle and could check salinity in the Pacific NW waters for ya but you'll realy have to get a salinity reading from the area that you'r livestock will be from..

Yeah, no.

 

Everything about the water going into a coldwater tank should be the same as a tropical tank, except the temperature.

[Menace]

Yeah, no.

 

Everything about the water going into a coldwater tank should be the same as a tropical tank, except the temperature.

 

Take a look at this: LINK

 

Or I can just pick out relevant info for you here:

Density currents are caused by differences in density of ocean water. These differences in density are due to changes in salinity (a measure of the dissolved salts in sea water) and temperature. Density currents are also known as thermohaline circulation.

 

The higher the salinity of seawater, the greater the density of seawater. To change the salinity of an ocean, and thus change the density, two different things can occur: evaporation or freezing. Evaporation will cause an increase in salinity. As fresh water evaporates the salt is left behind, thus the water will have a higher density. A well-known area where this occurs is the Mediterranean Sea.

 

We can measure the salinity of seawater by using a salinometer. A salinometer gauges the salinity of ocean water by measuring the electrical conductivity of water at certain temperatures. The greater the conductivity, the greater amount of dissolved salts.

 

In the Mediterranean, the seawater has a salinity of approximately forty (parts per thousand), while the Atlantic Ocean, on the other side of the Strait of Gibraltar, has a salinity of thirty five (ppt). When the Mediterranean drains into the Atlantic Ocean a density current is established with the salty Mediterranean water sinking to the bottom of the ocean.

 

So in under 50 miles there's a 5ppt difference just in this instance..

and the difference in salinity changes per Latitude degree.

Saltier at the north and south poles and at the equator witch is where most of our reef life comes from.

So I would do the research and figure out the parameters needed for the setup you're doing.

Try to get more than just 1 answer and i say go with the majority of answers that are accredited..

Do a Google search for coldwater+salinity

And good luck.

 

EDIT: Best i could find for Ca depending on north to south seems to range between 10-20ppt.

Sorry best i could find. might just have to have someone take a boat out and check it in the wild

[jeremai]

Your post, and the link accompanying it, are completely irrelevant to the point I made. I wasn't contesting the fact that salinity changes over different parts of the oceans (and by the way, your Med vs Atlantic example is so far misplaced as to be humerous, lol).

 

My point is exactly as I said: everything about the water going into a coldwater tank should be the same as a tropical tank, except the temperature. Remember that most of the livestock we put into temperate tanks are subject to extremes in salinity and temperature up to four times a day, with each tide - variables are a nonissue in the wild. But we're not talking about the wild, we're talking about a nano tank. The point is to find an average, and so far as salinity is concerned, the average salinity of temperate oceans is the same as that of tropical oceans.

 

And lol at 'accredited answers'. Have you ever kept a coldwater tank?

[dshnarw]

Take a look at this: LINK

 

Or I can just pick out relevant info for you here:

 

 

So in under 50 miles there's a 5ppt difference just in this instance..

and the difference in salinity changes per Latitude degree.

Saltier at the north and south poles and at the equator witch is where most of our reef life comes from.

So I would do the research and figure out the parameters needed for the setup you're doing.

Try to get more than just 1 answer and i say go with the majority of answers that are accredited..

Do a Google search for coldwater+salinity

And good luck.

 

EDIT: Best i could find for Ca depending on north to south seems to range between 10-20ppt.

Sorry best i could find. might just have to have someone take a boat out and check it in the wild

 

 

FAIL!!!

 

First, the Mediterranean is a crap example to begin with, because it's only outlet to the ocean is through the tiny Strait of Gibraltar. The residence time of the water in the Med. is EXTREMELY high - meaning water that gets stuck in there, stays there. Add erosion (erosion = salt added to the water), and of course it's much saltier there compared to the rest of the ocean. Small body of water + lots of erosion = saltier. HUGE body of water + less erosion = less salty. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with temperature difference, and EVERYTHING to do with the fact that the water doesn't get to mix with the rest of the ocean. The Med. is also several times more polluted than the rest of the ocean...think that has anything to do with temperature?

 

You should learn how to compare apples and apples. You might make sense then.

 

Next, you do realize you're arguing with someone who successfully kept a coldwater tank?

 

Finally... for the "accredited" BS.

[Menace]

My advice for both of you would be to do the research that you are apparently not doing..

 

That was one of many examples that can be found on the net. I quoted one of the many i read when i was looking to do a Puget sound coldwater tank before i decided to go the rought i have with my reef tank.

 

Yes there are huge fluctuations in the wild but there change is gradual and throughout the year.

 

The point I was making is that for you to setup a coldwater tank and care for the livestock in the correct manor, you should try and simulate the best possible situation for that animal.

 

Taking an animal from coldwater (IE: SG 1.018 near Oregon/Washington coast in the fall) and acclimating it to SG 1.025 can be done.

But! Is it best way to care for that animal?

Highly doughtfull..

 

I am glad you had a CW setup that worked well for you.. The thing i would ask is did it work well for the livestock you kept?

 

This is reminding me of people keeping Clams under CF lighting..

YES. It can be done. But it's not the best way. And the clam will not be at it's best, and will suffer.

[Mark S]

I dont think any of the people that responded have ever had a coldwater tank......so.....respectfully I say...on this subject...they dont really know WTF they are talking about.

 

Ok.ok...just kidin' you two

 

 

Modularduck gave the right advice.

[arwndsh]

This should be good.

[jeremai]

Menace, here's the bottom line: the burden is on you. The OP is not looking at living in a bubble in the ocean, he is looking at starting a temperate nano tank. So, find me one - just one - temperate tank that has done better at a specific gravity of 1.018 than the myriad of temperate tanks (here, on RC, or at public aquariums) that are being kept at or near a specific gravity of 1.025.

 

But you know what, this is all academic, as you have never actually kept temperate livestock. Tell you what, start up a tank, test it at a SG of 1.018 for a year (or even a few months), and get back to me with an update on how well your livestock are surviving.

 

In the mean time, to the OP: do what has been successful for everyone else who has tried a temperate tank, and mix saltwater to a normal reef salinity. Good luck!

[dshnarw]

My advice for both of you would be to do the research that you are apparently not doing..

 

That was one of many examples that can be found on the net. I quoted one of the many i read when i was looking to do a Puget sound coldwater tank before i decided to go the rought i have with my reef tank.

 

Yes, that was one of many examples of an ENCLOSED body of saltwater with odd circumstances that lead to a substantial increase or decrease in salinity. We're not talking about enclosed bodies of water. We're talking about an open water system, that just happens to be COLD.

 

Puget Sound is also an example of an enclosed body of water...not very applicable to the "normal" reef tank.

 

Yes there are huge fluctuations in the wild but there change is gradual and throughout the year.

 

The point I was making is that for you to setup a coldwater tank and care for the livestock in the correct manor, you should try and simulate the best possible situation for that animal.

 

Taking an animal from coldwater (IE: SG 1.018 near Oregon/Washington coast in the fall) and acclimating it to SG 1.025 can be done.

But! Is it best way to care for that animal?

Highly doughtfull..

 

First, many/most coldwater species that make it into the home aquarium are found in and/or collected from tidepools. Every time it rains, the salinity of that water goes crazy. When the sun shines, the water warms up...evaporates - temp and salinity changes. As Jeremai said - HUGE fluctuations multiple times a day. Here's a warmwater example of that:

 

 

Thats a coral at low tide. What do you think happens if it rains on it?

 

Second...1.018 near the Oregon/Washington coast? Where's the link for that? Because my research ("Freshwater input to coastal waters off the Pacific Northwest" by Reed and Elliot, 1973) shows a neat little graph with salinity at 32-33ppt all along that coast.

 

So...according, we're darned close to mean seawater salinity...no acclimation needed.

 

And while I'm on it - specific gravity is useless as an indication of salinity - it changes with temperature.

 

I am glad you had a CW setup that worked well for you.. The thing i would ask is did it work well for the livestock you kept?

 

This is reminding me of people keeping Clams under CF lighting..

YES. It can be done. But it's not the best way. And the clam will not be at it's best, and will suffer.

 

Oh please...

 

 

Open ocean water, worldwide, ranges from 33-38ppt, according to the USGS. In enclosed areas like the Med., the Red Sea, or the Puget Sound, it's higher or lower - depending on freshwater input, evaporation, and erosion rates of the surrounding continent.

 

Steve Weast kept his coldwater system at 35ppt - check it out at oregonreef.com - and he's widely regarded as "the man" when it comes to coldwater tanks.

[Menace]

First, the Mediterranean is a crap example to begin with, because it's only outlet to the ocean is through the tiny Strait of Gibraltar. The residence time of the water in the Med. is EXTREMELY high - meaning water that gets stuck in there, stays there. Add erosion (erosion = salt added to the water), and of course it's much saltier there compared to the rest of the ocean. Small body of water + lots of erosion = saltier. HUGE body of water + less erosion = less salty. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with temperature difference, and EVERYTHING to do with the fact that the water doesn't get to mix with the rest of the ocean. The Med. is also several times more polluted than the rest of the ocean...think that has anything to do with temperature?

Thank you for making my point..

Did you know that he was looking to house livestock that would normally thrive in the Puget Sound, N/S Atlantic, N/S Pacific, close to land, further out to see?

The point is. IMOA. All life taken from it's natural habitat (and let's be honest) for our amusement, should be cared for as well as we possibly can.

Lumping everything into the ranges that everyone uses (so it must be right) is not the way I personally do it.

 

Just because it "works". doesn't mean it's good.

 

Think about it. less than 10 years ago everyone thought undergravel filters for reefs were perfect and all you needed, and no one trusted one of those darn protein skimmers.

 

This hobby is an evolving one. You nor I nor anyone else on this planet, knows everything.

The only way to be sure, is to do it the way it's already done in nature (or as close as we can get to it).

 

Both of you are sill missing my point and I'm not going to sit here and keep arguing with you.

 

He asked a question and I was simply trying to help him.

I didn't come into this thread and start flaming anyone that didn't think the way i do..

 

How about you give you're advice and let other people give there's and then the OP can decide what's best for him?

 

Is that really that hard?

[dshnarw]

Thank you for making my point..

Did you know that he was looking to house livestock that would normally thrive in the Puget Sound, N/S Atlantic, N/S Pacific, close to land, further out to see?

 

And again...salinity in open ocean water is 33-38ppt. "further out to sea" is open ocean water. If they're found there, they're used to mean seawater salinities. Secondly - the OP stated California coast above - you haven't found ANY articles that show that the California coast has salinities less than that. Scripps water, pulled straight out of the ocean at Scripps, has a salinity equivalent to mean seawater salinity. Seawater salinity along the coast of Maine, the most likely location to get coldwater livestock from the Atlantic are mean seawater, according to the FWS in Maine. Species located in the Puget Sound available for coldwater tanks aren't endemic to the Sound, and therefore also grow along the NW coast of the US - which I've already established at 33ppt - just below mean seawater.

 

The point is. IMOA. All life taken from it's natural habitat (and let's be honest) for our amusement, should be cared for as well as we possibly can.

Lumping everything into the ranges that everyone uses (so it must be right) is not the way I personally do it.

 

Just because it "works". doesn't mean it's good.

 

No, the point is that the species available for coldwater aquaria are cared for as well as we can care for them at mean ocean water salinities. You're making a big stink about a non-issue. And you still haven't found us any data that says otherwise.

 

Think about it. less than 10 years ago everyone thought undergravel filters for reefs were perfect and all you needed, and no one trusted one of those darn protein skimmers.

 

This hobby is an evolving one. You nor I nor anyone else on this planet, knows everything.

The only way to be sure, is to do it the way it's already done in nature (or as close as we can get to it).

 

Yes, the hobby is evolving...but salinities of ocean water are the same...33-38ppt. As close as we an get is to choose the mean seawater level, especially in the case of choosing livestock from several areas, as you proclaim the OP to be interested in doing.

 

Both of you are sill missing my point and I'm not going to sit here and keep arguing with you.

 

He asked a question and I was simply trying to help him.

I didn't come into this thread and start flaming anyone that didn't think the way i do..

 

How about you give you're advice and let other people give there's and then the OP can decide what's best for him?

 

Is that really that hard?

 

You wouldn't have been called out if your original argument was coherent and had any relevance to this thread. You haven't been flamed yet, but we could start, if you wish.

 

I could care less about your advice, until it's wrong. When it's wrong, I will call it, as I've repeatedly done in this thread. If you have some info to back up your advice, lets see it. I've shown you plenty for my stance.

 

Now...if the OP were interested in a Med. Sea biotope, THEN we could discuss a different salinity.

[Fishfreak218]

Highly doughtfull...

I like the spelling!

 

EDIT*

its ok, I cant spell scense for the life of me... you know like. "that makes scence"

yeah, I have no clue how its spelled and always spell it scense

[Lalani]

This should be good.

Will ya share the popcorn?

It's amazing how simple questions get blown-out-of-proportion answers.

[arwndsh]

Will ya share the popcorn?

It's amazing how simple questions get blown-out-of-proportion answers.

of course!! Didn't you see how big the bucket is there is plenty for all.

[jeremai]

Is that really that hard?

lol noob.

[Coralkeeper]

Ok, Thanks for the info everyone!! I found out the salinity of the place I go to normally and its around 1.023

[Menace]

Hmm.. Funny how that comes out to 30.5ppt isn't it?

[dshnarw]

Hmm.. Funny how that comes out to 30.5ppt isn't it?

 

Gee..that means you were only off by 10-20, then doesnt it?

 

EDIT: Best i could find for Ca depending on north to south seems to range between 10-20ppt.

 

 

Your wonderful research abilities would have put the guy at HALF the salinity required. GREAT JOB NOOB!!

 

And secondly, what temperature are you converting that salinity for, exactly? I've already told you that you can't convert specific gravity to concentrations without knowing the temperature at which it was taken.

[jeremai]

Hmm.. Funny how that comes out to 30.5ppt isn't it?

psst... salinity is measured in parts per million...

 

At any rate, 1.023 is a helluva lot closer to NSW than 1.018...

[diver6]

psst... salinity is measured in parts per million...

 

Salinity is very often measured in parts per thousand. Not just in aquariums and seawater, but laboratories as well.