Warehouse's 20L Tank (w/ new pics 2-13

[Warehouse41Ant]

Alright, so I'll start this off with the caveat that I'm a total n00b. Should have done some more research and saved a bit before I actually started, but I didn't, so go ahead and throw the criticism, I already realize I could have gone about this differently.

 

That said, any constructive criticism as to how to proceed from here would be appreciated.

 

I've been thinking about doing salt for a few years (always kept FW/African Cichlids). Finally a couple months ago I got serious about it. Decided 3 weeks ago that I was going to use the 20L tank that I already had, so I started acquiring the necessities.

 

Within that same week I had 40 lbs live sand (bought at LFS, Caribsea), water, and a filter running in the tank. Was using an old light, old powerhead (still in use) and a plastic hood. Luckily the hood and light were in dire need of replacement, so that has been done.

 

My current setup is a 20L AGA with glass versatop. Have the 30" CF Coralife light (10,000k, Actinic, & LED moonlights). Running an AC70 (with all the media from the box...eventually may turn into a fuge), and a Rio powerhead (400 gph, soon to change). My temp is relatively stable between 76-78.5, so I haven't put a heater in yet. I have NO live rock. I purchased 25 lbs of Pukani Dry Rock from Bulk Reef Supply (amazing stuff, very porous, very light, HIGHLY recommend it....you won't need as much as you think!).

 

Onto the n00b stuff. Got a yellow-tail damsel (per recommendation from LFS) to help with cycling. All I can say is that it worked. Week and a half to two weeks after obtaining him my cycle is done (as of yesterday). Last week I got a brown algae bloom. It was pretty bad. I killed my light cycle almost completely (11 hrs down to 4), which took care of most of the problem. Yesterday I did my first water change (30%). Haven't checked params yet today. Back to my point, the damsel did speed things up. As of yesterday nitrites were 0, nitrates were at 20. Hoping the water change reduced that quite a bit.

 

Plans for the tank: I have an order on its way from MarineDepot. I have an additional digital thermometer (for mixing water changes), Koralia 1 and Nano to replace my powerhead (which will then be used for mixing water), and a refractometer (so I can figure out what my salinity actually is). After my water change last night it was reading 1.0245 according to a hydrometer. We'll see...

 

So...going to feel pretty good about my setup after I get that taken care of. My question for you guys is: What do you recommend next? I think CUC will be my next step, but unsure what to get. I'm thinking hermit crabs. I've heard snails can be problematic if they die and start rotting....with all the pores on my rock I'm thinking they'd be easy to lose. My selection here in Lincoln, NE is pretty limited. Don't have great access to very much. I want to ultimately have a couple clowns (preferrably the black and white ones), some frogspawn and zoas, just some easy to keep, hardy corals, whatever those end up being. I'll stay away from SPS, at least at this time, and on this tank. I have future aspirations of setting up my 55g as salt, but I wanted to try an minimal investment tank first!

 

Let me know what you all think!

 

(hope photos work. Had to use the attachment editor, as I don't have access to photo sites from work (i.e. photobucket)

 

first photo is a fts with the actinic lights, second is fts with both lights, 3rd is my little yellow-tail.

[Warehouse41Ant]

Hmm...Looks like my damsel pic didn't post. Oh well. You get the idea. He's relatively small. Any chance I can keep him? Kinda enjoy his personality. He loves to wedge himself into the little holes in the rock and look out.

[greech]

Well it sounds like you did pretty good all-in-all. I like the tank and the rockwork! You definitely want a CUC. I would go with 1/2 dozen Astrea snails and maybe 6-10 Nassarius snails. I started with about 6-hermits and I have 2 left. They fight over shells and will also kill your snails for their shells. They do a decent job picking at rocks and your sandbed. I never bought from them but lots of folks say a good source for CUCs is reefcleaners if you don't have a good local source.

 

http://reefcleaners.org/index.php?option=c...ge&Itemid=1

 

I would encourage you to remove the stock media that came with your AC 70. The carbon will be spent in no time and the sponge and ceramic rings will eventually build up detritus and house nitrates. Converting to a fuge would be a good idea but I like to have a form of mechanical filtration as well. You could easily get another HOB (another AC 70 or even a 50) or you could try and mod your AC 70 to accomplish both. That would be as simple as providing a small area to hold filter floss to catch debris prior to entering the fuge part of the filter. The reason why I would suggest an additional filter is so you can run media if and when you want. Chemipurer Elite is a great carbon and lasts for a couple of months (based on bioload). I run it all the time with floss in my AC 70 and my water always looks great and parameters are where I want them.

 

As for fish, your damsel will likely be agressive towards anything you add to the tank going forward. Even in larger thanks these fish can become terrors especially when they get first dibs on the tank. Clowns are related to damsels so you might get lucky. The corals you listed will be good for your tank and are mostly hardy so good to start with. Just be sure to add livestock slowly and test your water often as you add livestock so you can get an idea on what you tank can handle. (3 fish is probably max but you might be able to go with 4 if you stay on your maintenance.

 

The only other thing I can see for now is that you have a pretty deep sandbed in a smaller tank. I don't have any experience with deep beds but I have read that they are used for nutrient export (good thing). However, I have also read that they can be problematic due to a lack of oxygen getting to the bacteria within the bed. Again, do not take my word for this but I would suggest you do a search for deep sand beds and see if its something you want. If it turns out you don't want that much sand you can always siphon out a little at a time.

 

Other than that welcome to the hobby and to NR!!!

[Militant Jurist]

The only other thing I can see for now is that you have a pretty deep sandbed in a smaller tank. I don't have any experience with deep beds but I have read that they are used for nutrient export (good thing).

 

DSB are actually used for de-nitrification. Nutrient export occurs when you've got something that consumes nitrates, such as cheato, which you can then cut and remove from the tank.

 

However, I have also read that they can be problematic due to a lack of oxygen getting to the bacteria within the bed.

 

A DSB's ability to de-nitrify actually comes from the lack of oxygen to the lower levels. The anaerobic area of the DSB is home to bacteria that convert nitrate to harmless nitrogen. However, in a smaller tank, a DSB is less effective. Also, having it in the display tank makes it more likely that the DSB will be disturbed, which can lead to run away nitrates, nitrites, etc.

 

If it turns out you don't want that much sand you can always siphon out a little at a time.

 

+1. I had a DSB in my 10g, and I siphoned it out a little bit at a time. When I upgraded to the 20L, the DSB was done away with.

[Warehouse41Ant]

So...I should ditch some of the sand? I really like the look of the deeper bed. I'd say on average mine is between 1 and 2" deep. I have eggcrate below it and if you look at the bottom right corner, that is down to the egg crate due to the flow from the powerhead over there. It's a bit misleading over toward the left. The flow from the AC70 has pushed sand back away from the glass and created a small ridge toward the center there. It is deeper on the left, but not what I'd call a DSB.

 

Any other opinions? I don't really want to ditch the expensive live sand. Not only would I feel I was throwing away money, but I really like the look of the tank at this point. Is there anything I can do to control the negative impact of it, or will it kill stuff off in the future?

[Militant Jurist]

If you like the look of it, by all means, keep it! If your sand is regularly moved around by the currents, that's fine. What you don't want to do is disturb sand that has been relatively motionless for a long time. What I would suggest is just keeping up on your WCs and using a turkey baster to blow the junk off of the sand beforehand.

[Nanobuds]

get a jawfish eventually or some nass snails. those will help move around the sand

[Militant Jurist]

Nassarius and cerith snails both would do the trick!

[Warehouse41Ant]

Alright, thanks guys. I'm just a big fan of deep substrate beds. I've always done deep gravel on my FW tanks and carried that over into SW. I just like the look it gives and I like for the fish to have room to dig/do their thing. I've always had Africans and those guys have minds of their own. I've watched two of them dig before. One was digging and then moving, and while he was gone another would fill what he'd dug back in. I'm hoping I can find some SW creatures that'll dig as well.

 

 

Any thoughts on the aquascaping or equipment? Think what I have will be sufficien/overkill/not enough?

 

Will I be okay without the LR? This Pukani Dry rock is awesome stuff. Really like the look, just hoping I get good coraline growth on it.

[Militant Jurist]

Will I be okay without the LR? This Pukani Dry rock is awesome stuff. Really like the look, just hoping I get good coraline growth on it.

 

Well, to get coraline algae, you need a source for it. That's one of the two reasons for getting just a little bit of LR at least. (The other reason is to get the beneficial pods.) However, I've also heard of coraline getting a start just from an coraline covered snail joining the CUC team! I'd still try to get a small piece if you can. Before long, your rocks will be covered!

[ajmckay]

1" to 2" isn't really a DSB... I think your pictures are just a little misleading since it's dark towards the bottom. A true DSB needs to be 4" to 6" deep. I would say that it's probably about 2" deep. I bought 1 20lb bag of caribsea aragonite and that gave me roughly 1" in my 29g, which has the same footprint. Why the eggcrate though? I'm not saying it's anything bad, but I'm just wondering where you read about it.

 

Overall it seems as though you have done your fair share of research, and more importantly it seems as though you understand it.

 

If I were you I would start adding a clean up crew. I would say 4-6 hermits would be sufficient for your tank. They are great cleaners, but if you get too many they will die off or you will need to feed them (which sorta defeats the purpose). Snails are probably the favorite. Get a mixture of snails. Some which clean glass, and some which clean rock. Cerith, Trochus, Stomatella, Turbo (get big), Astrea, Nerite, nassarius (predatory snails, add them sparingly (maybe 2-3) or they'll eat the beneficial infauna in your rock & sand), & others.

 

Other than that I would just let your tank chill for a while and maybe start to get some coral frags & such. The corals you listed are good beginner corals. Some other good corals would be plate corals, pagoda (or cup) corals, leathers, mushrooms, favia's, frogspawn/hammer corals & things like that. Your light should be plenty for most LPS corals. I would avoid anemone's though.

 

Go slow. Your tank has been successful so far and I hope it stays that way!

[MGDMIRAGE]

DSB will also depend on the grain of the sand, larger grain sand will need more depth to reach the stagnant zone. Fine sand will require less depth as it lets less flow through so in theory a 2" - 3" sugar fine sand bed should be a DSB, where you would need 4-6" of larger grain aragonite.

[Warehouse41Ant]

Why the eggcrate though? I'm not saying it's anything bad, but I'm just wondering where you read about it.

 

 

I've read that the eggcrate will help absorb an impact should the rocks shift due to diggers. I just put a layer down there to be safe. It also helped as i was placing the rocks to not scratch the bottom. I had the sand and water in place a few days before the rock was put in there. Due to this, I had to push/twist the rocks down into the sand.

 

The pictures are misleading. Sand bed isn't more than 2-2.5" in any single spot, although it is very fine grain sand.

 

 

And no worries about taking things slow! Going to get a clean up crew in the next couple weeks and let the tank sit for another two or so after that. No money to put into it for a bit. That'll keep me from getting ahead of myself. Coral frags will be added slowly after CUC, then I'll look at a clown pair after I have a few corals in place.

[Militant Jurist]

And no worries about taking things slow! Going to get a clean up crew in the next couple weeks and let the tank sit for another two or so after that. No money to put into it for a bit. That'll keep me from getting ahead of myself. Coral frags will be added slowly after CUC, then I'll look at a clown pair after I have a few corals in place.

 

Sounds like a good plan. I know how it goes ... sometimes the lack of funds is the best way of ensuring patience!

[greech]

There you go, another satisfied NR customer !!!

 

Thanks MJ for clarification on the DSB. Very helpful info for the OP as well as me!

 

BTW, I really like the look of the sand bed in this tank as well. Good luck with the tank going forward.

[Militant Jurist]

Thanks MJ for clarification on the DSB. Very helpful info for the OP as well as me!

 

Glad to help!

[Warehouse41Ant]

There you go, another satisfied NR customer !!!

 

Thanks MJ for clarification on the DSB. Very helpful info for the OP as well as me!

 

BTW, I really like the look of the sand bed in this tank as well. Good luck with the tank going forward.

 

I agree, greech. It's amazing the knowledge that everyone on here has, and NR has really helped me get going on this and be confident with my purchases so far. I fully intend to keep using it a resource moving forward, because both of my LFS have led me astray already.

 

And thanks for the sandbed comment. I hope the tank takes off. If it crashes it's really going to frustrate me. I don't take failure very well. That'll be my other motivation (other than money) to take things slow! So far I'm really excited about the look, though!

[Warehouse41Ant]

Well, I went to my LFS and got my CUC tonight! These guys are fun to watch.

 

CUC as of right now (will likely add more later, didn't want to increase bio load too much):

 

-3 Astrea Snails

-3 Red Leg Hermit Crabs

-1 emerald crab

 

They all immediately went to work on my diatom bloom. The snails are amazing. I knew they'd go to work, but I didn't realize how thorough they were. The emerald eats non-stop. The hermits are sifting through the sand. Seems like they'll get the job started, anyway!

 

Will add some photos in a few minutes

[Warehouse41Ant]

Couple photos of the CUC:

 

Emerald is toward the top right, best pic I could get of him, Astrea in foreground

 

Here is one of the hermit crabs.

 

A close up of the cleanup work done by the Astrea in a matter of an hour

 

 

Does anyone have any idea if the hermits are the Scarlet Reef Hermits? I've heard they are reef safe and don't get too big, also peaceful. I know the pic isn't great, but is anyone able to tell?

[Militant Jurist]

Does anyone have any idea if the hermits are the Scarlet Reef Hermits? I've heard they are reef safe and don't get too big, also peaceful. I know the pic isn't great, but is anyone able to tell?

 

That's what I was thinking when I first saw the picture. I've got one (despite my current 'no crabs' rule) and he's pretty well behaved around the reef. In the year or so I've had him, he hasn't grown much.

[Warehouse41Ant]

That's what I was thinking when I first saw the picture. I've got one (despite my current 'no crabs' rule) and he's pretty well behaved around the reef. In the year or so I've had him, he hasn't grown much.

 

 

Yeah, I see a lot of people have that "no crabs" rule. I just like the look they have. They're fun to watch. The snails seem to do a much better job, but I've also heard that if a snail dies and you don't catch it, it can take the whole system down. I, myself, wouldn't be able to keep track of more than 5 or 6 snails to watch for that.

[Warehouse41Ant]

Well, my shipment is waiting for me at home. Koralia 1 and nano for the tank, as well as a refractometer so I can finally figure out if my salinity is in a good range.

 

Brown algae (diatom) blooms are going nuts right now. Think I'm going to get that stuff installed and do a water change this afternoon in hopes of ridding some of that. I thought it was under control after I got my CUC and saw it die down. Yesterday I left the light on all day while I went to work and came home to a completely brown tank.

 

Hopefully after the water change??? Going to do a 5g (20%) change. It's getting frustrating. I've heard it's supposed to go away quickly in place of some green algae. I'm not sure I want either, but the brown is really getting on my nerves.

[Warehouse41Ant]

New FTS now that I've gotten everything put in and going. Love the Koralias. They produce pretty good flow. Combined with the AC70 (which I did remove the bio media from) I'm happy with the water movement at this point.

 

The refractometer is great. My hydrometer hadn't been as far off as I'd thought. According to the hydrometer at the time my water was at 1.024. Refractometer read it as 1.022-1.023. I now have it at about 1.0245. Right about where I want it. Just completed a water change today (doing them weekly) to get it right around there (had been a bit low prior).

 

Here is a new FTS. Can see my damsel in the back. Rocks still have some diatom growth, but that has been largely put under control by my CUC. Hasn't been near as bad as it was in the past couple weeks.

 

 

 

 

That's all I have for now. But since I know you all like pictures, I thought I'd also add a FTS of my FW Cichlid tank. All the plants are fake, but I like the look of this tank. It's in the living room. SW tank is in the bedroom (for now, I have plans for a couple more SW tanks in the future!

 

 

 

(notice the cat lurking the in the background)

[PaulE915]

New FTS now that I've gotten everything put in and going. Love the Koralias. They produce pretty good flow. Combined with the AC70 (which I did remove the bio media from) I'm happy with the water movement at this point.

 

The refractometer is great. My hydrometer hadn't been as far off as I'd thought. According to the hydrometer at the time my water was at 1.024. Refractometer read it as 1.022-1.023. I now have it at about 1.0245. Right about where I want it. Just completed a water change today (doing them weekly) to get it right around there (had been a bit low prior).

 

Here is a new FTS. Can see my damsel in the back. Rocks still have some diatom growth, but that has been largely put under control by my CUC. Hasn't been near as bad as it was in the past couple weeks.

 

 

 

 

That's all I have for now. But since I know you all like pictures, I thought I'd also add a FTS of my FW Cichlid tank. All the plants are fake, but I like the look of this tank. It's in the living room. SW tank is in the bedroom (for now, I have plans for a couple more SW tanks in the future!

 

 

 

(notice the cat lurking the in the background)

 

digging both your tanks..very nice..im anxious to get mine going...not known for my patience, rather the lackthereof so hopefully this hobby will be a nice calm relaxing onem unlike my skydiving or mtb racing..

[PIPS]

im diggin the rock formation on the sw tank !!