Haberdashery Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Hey, I currently have a 12 gallon (55 litre) nano cube 40x40x40cm which i'm attempting to cycle. I had a disaster on Sunday (1 February) a Week ago. and all my fish died due to the tank not being properly cycled. Since then i've left it as is. I left one of the dead fish in to act as an ammonia source to cycle the tank as suggested by someone on here. I added a cube of frozen mysis a couple of days after that as well. I just tested the water using my (probably faulty) API test kit and it says there's no nitrite or nitrates so far ammonia is apparently sitting at 0.5ppm ph is 8.0 My tank is covered in brown algae now and theres some green hair algae growing. I havent seen anything living crawling about the rocks this week (there was a lotttt of life on them including two tiny starfish, about 6 tiny feather dusters, a tiny polyp, shrimp things, worm things, fire worms etc. have I killed all these little things by upping the ammonia to cycle? Does anyone know a test kit that actually works properly? Preferably not extortionate. I seen a red sea reef one for £40 on amazon and that just seems a crazy price to pay for some test tubes and solutions. Should I by something to put in the tank to help the bacteria grow quicker? Suggestions for that? I'd like it to cycle asap as I have two hermit crabs that survived my tanks meltdown in a bucket surviving. I'd like them to go back to the tank soon so they can go back to exploring and hiding and such, they dont seem to want to eat in the bucket ive tried leaving food near them, feeding individually with tweezers, i put a tiny bit of a food block in and they never went near it. They seem to want to change shells aswell. I put int he few I got from the LFS and they were exploring them checking there size and such but none of them took their faancy, i bought 28 shells on ebay to put in for them and they didnt seem to like them either. I made sure i had a variety of size and shape for them to try but no cigar. Was thinking about getting a pair of seahorses when the tanks all fixed up and running good would they be okay with my hermits? Link to comment
Daveluce Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 When I cycled my tanks, I used seachem stability. Both tanks cycled really quickly, which might be coincidence. It's worth a shot, since you're already in the cycling process. And sea horses are generally very difficult to keep. You have to hatch live brine daily to feed them. Link to comment
skyscraper2290 Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 I would say slow down and take your time, typically it takes 4-8 weeks for a tank to properly cycle. Seahorse are supposed to be pretty difficult to keep. Is this your first time with a SW tank? It might be best to wait for the tank to cycle and start with some easier to keep fish. As Daveluce said you can use seachem stability or another similar product to help get through the cycle faster, but it might be a better idea to let everything happen naturally and to do some more research on cycling, fish, and inverts to give you a better idea of their needs. Link to comment
CJJon Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Oh, boy. First, there is quite a bit of decaying matter in the tank. Lots of things have died, yes. Stop adding anything to the tank right now. No more mysis. No bacteria. Second, trying to speed up a cycle is unwise. It takes as long as it takes. Oh, and seahorses? Not for months and months. I would say your ammonia level is correct. The zero Nitrate/Nitrite is odd. Did you ever get readings above zero for them from when you started the tank? Did you start the tank with bottled bacteria? I can't remember from your other posts. Usually the cycle starts with ammonia, then you get nitrite spike, then nitrate. Nitrates are last to show and last to go--often you need water changes to export nitrates once ammonia and nitrite read zero. API test kits are fine for the cycle. Follow the directions closely every time. Use the same bright light when comparing color. I use a sheet of white paper to put behind the sample card. Also, you can test some fresh saltwater alongside tank water as a control. Compare the two vials for any change in color. Right now just test for ammonia and nitrite. Test for nitrate later. Got any pics of the tank? Frankly, it might be better to just hit the reset button on this one. I would. Link to comment
Haberdashery Posted February 8, 2015 Author Share Posted February 8, 2015 Cjjon: I've never had a reading from my nitrite test or my nitrate test I didn't start with bottled bacteria, I used live rock and live sand with salt RO water and left it for a month the first time I didn't add any "ammonia source" so the bacteria didn't build up (i think thats how it works?) my shrimp moulded and died then everything died minus my hermits. I'm not sure how to 'hit the reset button' anymore than I already have. i'm certainly not discarding my live sand and rock since it cost me about £150 skyscraper2290: this is my first go at saltwater. seahorses just popped into my head as i was typing this i hadnt looked anything up about them yet but in the last 5 minutes ive decided against it, id like to have a taller bigger tank for them anyway and constantly feeding live food sounds like a pain. How many fish can I actually keep in a 12 gallon? my LFS told me 5 which sounds ridiculous. I feel they just want my money Daveluce: Thanks for the advice, may look into seachem stability, sounds like it does the trick. obviously better to let it naturally cycle but I have my lil creatures in a bucket and i'd rather they were in their tank where they had their shelter and hiding places and stuff Yeah, I never looked into them at all before posting this but after a quick google search i decided against it aha Link to comment
Haberdashery Posted February 8, 2015 Author Share Posted February 8, 2015 Pictures~ http://oi57.tinypic.com/2nvy1bs.jpg http://oi59.tinypic.com/dfvp6q.jpg http://oi62.tinypic.com/2cwvip5.jpg Also, anyone any idea what this is while i'm here? I seen it about 5/6 days ago. and it's huge! http://oi61.tinypic.com/1r65uv.jpg Please ignore the water/salt marked on the outside of the tank, I haven't been bothered to clean it yet. Link to comment
CJJon Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Hmm, the test kit may be old perhaps (which can happen to them all). Can you get a new API kit? Frankly at this point we can assume you have elevated levels of nitrite nitrate since you have had elevated ammonia levels for some time. We can worry about nitrite/nitrate later on and just focus on ammonia. Do two ammonia tests, one with tank water and one with fresh salt water. When they match, we are golden! By hitting the reset button, I mean pulling everything out of the tank. Scrub the hell out of the rocks, soak and clean the sand, scrub the tank down, etc. You can certainly keep the rock and all you need is to keep a cup full of sand to seed the new or thoroughly cleaned sand. Certainly you can hang on and deal with what you have. It is hard to tell if you really have a disaster on your hands or not though. In my mind dealing with what you have would be harder (for me, in my imagination) than it would be to just start over. Also, if you are going to stick it out, do a big water change asap. Oh, and go S L O W! Link to comment
Haberdashery Posted February 8, 2015 Author Share Posted February 8, 2015 The box says 2007 on it so probably (Someones getting a negative review on their amazon account later) "some time" Being a week? I will do that, never thought about comparing it to tap water. Won't that kill everything hiding in my live rock? My feather dusters which I still see. the shrimp, worms? Won't that just turn it into dead rock? Link to comment
CJJon Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 The pics don't look as bad as I had imagined in my head. I think you just need to slow down. You can't rush things, it takes as long as it takes. Right now I would ball baster the rocks off and slurp up the brown junk on the top layer of sand. Do a big water change in the process. You can even click off the lights right now if you like, that will help with any algae. Don't do anything other than add top off water (RO/DI water that you have tested as 0TDS). Next Sunday test again for ammonia using the control method I mentioned. Now would also be a good time to adjust your rock scape if you like. To me it looks like the way you have it would really impede flow across the tank. Something to think about. The weird thing looks like a worm. Hydroid perhaps?? You will be amazed at the things that will survive all of this. The box says 2007 on it so probably (Someones getting a negative review on their amazon account later) "some time" Being a week? I will do that, never thought about comparing it to tap water. Won't that kill everything hiding in my live rock? My feather dusters which I still see. the shrimp, worms? Won't that just turn it into dead rock? Ugh, get a new kit for sure. Not tap water, fresh saltwater. I had thought in my head that you had more of a soupy disaster on your hands--your not even close. lots of things will survive I am sure. Get on that water change though... Link to comment
Haberdashery Posted February 8, 2015 Author Share Posted February 8, 2015 The only reason my rock is scaped that way is because when I was scaping it they kept falling and wouldnt sit how I wanted them to and I just gave up. Aha. The pump circluates the water okay tbh, in the middle theres a whirlpool type thing that goes on, my fish used to wait till their food got sucked round that and then dive for it, was fun to watch. I definately want to change the layout but i cba with the rocks falling about and me getting frustrated again. maybe i'll let my mum do that she has wayyy more patience. Might jump to the fish store today for water and change it. it i took the rocks out and slooshed them around in freshwater/salt water and scrubbed the green algae off does that count as cleaning :')? for the sand, it was like this before i added the clean up crew last time and within 2 days it was back to being crystal white so I dunno if i'll even bother putting the effort in to clean it, unless its like necessary. haha, I have a tendency to make things sound more dramatic, should work on that. but the pictures dont really do justice the tank has an over all brown feel to it, not like but the pictures dont really show it, i guess cleaning the rock is a good excuse to change the scape, if i took all the water out (or down to just above the sand) and re scaped itd be so much easier. Hmm~ Would you recommend cleaning in fresh or saltwater? Also, what kind of fish/how many fish would you recommend for this tank? Link to comment
CJJon Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 "so I dunno if i'll even bother putting the effort in to clean it" Link to comment
Haberdashery Posted February 8, 2015 Author Share Posted February 8, 2015 well, its just a bit of algae. the crabs would eat that up in a day or so like they did the last time. Its a huge hassle to clean sand out and if its just algae i dont see a point but i dunno aha, does it have to be done? Link to comment
da1001 Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 I would take some water from the tank, put it in a Ziploc baggie, take it to the closest fish store and ask them to test the Ammonia for you. I have never seen a fish store charge anyone just to test their water and that way you at least have an idea of where it really is. Link to comment
CJJon Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 The stuff on the sand is probably diatoms and will most likely clear on it's own. Of course it does not have to be done, but maintenance is necessary for a successful tank. If anything it is good practice. You need to get into a routine of things--one of which is to blow off the rocks and clean the sand when doing a water change. This should be done weekly and perhaps more often at first (smaller more frequent water changes). You also need to build up your skills in doing maintenance and get to know your tank. Just like anything, practice is a good thing. Minimal effort=mediocre tank (at best). This is certainly true for those new to the hobby. Link to comment
Haberdashery Posted February 11, 2015 Author Share Posted February 11, 2015 I don't know how to clean the sand effectively other than taking it all out of the tank. when doing water changes i cleaned the sand with a syphon tube I'll take some of my water to the LFS asap Link to comment
CJJon Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Yeah, that is what you are supposed to do to clean sand. Stir it up a bit with the siphon and suck up as much detritus that you can. Do a small section of sand at each regular water change. Let us know what the LFS water tests are. Link to comment
Reefin Ric Flair Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 How much rock do you have in there in terms of weight by the way? Link to comment
Haberdashery Posted February 16, 2015 Author Share Posted February 16, 2015 I have just over 10kg of live rock and 9kg of live sand for a 12 gallon nano cube. was gonna get 12 kg but honestly theres barely room for 10 aha Went to the LFS with a water sample. They said theres no ammonia, no nitrites, some nitrate and that the phosphates are a bit high but a water change or two will bring that down. so i guess its cycled? Came home, done a 75% ish water change. took all the rock out and slooshed it in water to remove any dead/decaying stuff, removed bubble algae and rearranged the rock. I put it all further back so the water flows round better. its a lot more sturdy nothing toppling and falling over thank god. theres a lot more open space for the fish to swim around but still hiding places. I put all my hermit crab shells i bought in the tank so when i get more theres no issues there. I didnt take all the sand out i stirred it up a bit and caught removed anything that started floating around. it looks a LOOTTT cleaner and brighter and i'm ppretty excited about it all again. not sure how long before adding anything though. Did I do too big a water change, will that uncycle my tank? Have I done anything wrong or do you think everythings heading in the right direction? Also, as I was arranging the rocks I think I found a small Clam! Not sure though, the picture might not be very good as its in a crevice but when the rock was out of water it looked like a closed shell. pictures: clam? - http://oi58.tinypic.com/16rihg.jpg http://oi59.tinypic.com/m9rhh1.jpg http://oi62.tinypic.com/2co3i4i.jpg Link to comment
CJJon Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Seems like you are on your way! What were your actual numbers though? Terms like some and a bit high are meaningless. You can't undo a cycle with even a 100% water change, so no worries there. The bacteria live on things like your rock, sand, glass--not in the water. You still have too much rock in the tank and that scape you have now is going to be a big pain to maintain. Your rock needs to be away from all the walls of the tank so that you can get an algae scraper between your glass and the rock--even the back wall. The way you have it you can't clean the side glass or back wall. Also, where are you going to put all the cool liveastock you want to get? That rock is taking up too much real estate in the tank. Maybe you can take half of it back for store credit? Link to comment
Haberdashery Posted February 16, 2015 Author Share Posted February 16, 2015 I can't remember like 8 different readings off by heart i'm afraid. I like the set up. I have several things on the rock I want to watch. I set the rock up like this specifically to see those things. There's a lot of swimming space in the tank, The rocks generally not taking up a huge amount of room. i only want to get two small fish at most. the rest livestock will be crabs/snails which live on and around the rock cleaning it. so I have no concerns with the set up Link to comment
WibblyPig Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Remember, this is a long haul hobby and there are no short term solutions. A tank is like a person. You set it up and it's like a baby, all fresh and cute. It cycles - that's potty training - can't really do anything but wait. Then the diatoms hit. That would be about 9 or 10 years old when kids start getting a little sassy. Then the teenage years hit - hair algae, cyano, etc. There's things you can do to help it along but in the long run, it has to find it's own way, That's it going through its ugly phase but just keep up with it and give it some help and love when it needs it. Then all of the sudden, you look at it one day and it's all grown up - things are clean and presentable and it basically takes care of itself with a little help from you (water changes, supplements, etc.) There will still be speedbumps - the bubble algae you didn't nip in the bud are the bad decisions you made in University. The new frag you didn't dip is the DWI you got in your early 20s... But then, it's a wonderful thing to look at that you're very proud of and you tell people - "I made that!" (father of a 14 year old girl and a 10 year old boy who still laughs so hard that he occasionally gets a diatom stripe in his underwear) Link to comment
CJJon Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 I can't remember like 8 different readings off by heart i'm afraid. I like the set up. I have several things on the rock I want to watch. I set the rock up like this specifically to see those things. There's a lot of swimming space in the tank, The rocks generally not taking up a huge amount of room. i only want to get two small fish at most. the rest livestock will be crabs/snails which live on and around the rock cleaning it. so I have no concerns with the set up Well, OK then. I 'm glad you have no concerns. Good luck! Link to comment
Reefin Ric Flair Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 I can't remember like 8 different readings off by heart i'm afraid. I like the set up. I have several things on the rock I want to watch. I set the rock up like this specifically to see those things. There's a lot of swimming space in the tank, The rocks generally not taking up a huge amount of room. i only want to get two small fish at most. the rest livestock will be crabs/snails which live on and around the rock cleaning it. so I have no concerns with the set up The general rule of thumb is 1lb of rock per gallon but if you're digging it then keep doing your thing. Somewhere in the forum there are spreadsheets people use to track their tank parameters which can be extremely helpful if you need to trace your steps to see where things went wrong. With that info handy there are a lot of experts here who can pinpoint issues when they arise instead of guessing Link to comment
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