HELP, WHY IS MY PH SO LOW

[aviator300]

I usually post on the "Beginners" forum because this is my first reef tank but I figured the people here know more about water chemistry than beginners and I just cant figure mine out.

 

First of all, I have a 6 gal tank with an AQ fuge mod and use floss, carbon, phosphor-zorb and Chaeto. I use standard "Instant Ocean" salt mix and distilled water. am I wrong to think that the water parameters in my tank (at least the PH and DKH) are a direct result of the water used and the salt mix?

 

I've been up and running for just over 3 weeks and from day 1, the PH has been reading 7.6 on my calibrated pinpoint monitor and the DKH is at 12. I mix to a Spgr of 1.025. I confirmed my reading with my LFS.

 

I started adding Seachem reef buffer but it did nothing to the PH after about 4 days. It did, however temporarily raise my DKH to 14.

 

I've had folks tell me that there must be a source of co2 getting into the tank but I live in AZ and keep the windows open.

 

I hope someone can help diagnose my problem and offer a way to raise the PH some.

 

I realize that a stable PH is more important than the number itself, but isn't 7.6 a little to low for good coral health.

 

AVIATOR300

[Angel<3Nanos]

Ive seen tanks with a low ph with no problems.

 

But you might look into adding Chemi-Pure Elite and see if it raises your ph.

 

Stop adding the buffer.

 

If chemi-pure elite doesnt raisd your ph, add a small air pump with a valve to control the amount of bubbles.

 

Good luck

[aviator300]

Do you think the low PH is due to some kind of external co2 source. I thought of that also but have no idea where it would be coming from? I keep my windows open (in AZ) and have an open top tank.

Do you think the low PH has anything to do with using DISTILLED water instead of RO.

 

 

 

[Nano sapiens]

If your Cal, Alk and Mag are within acceptable range, then I wouldn't worry too much about pH. Some tanks run a bit on the 'low' side, but the corals still do fine.

 

12 dKH is a bit high, so you might want to bring that down to 9 or 10.

[Nanofreak79]

Chasing low ph is somewhat of a waste of time unless it's falling below 7.4-7.5. Reef crystals can and usually does give you that high dkh/alk. 12 is not something to get overly worried about IMO. A lower number would be better, something around 7-9 is what I shoot for. I dose kalkwasser to stable my ph, and crack a window if need be as well. I'm running anywhere from 7.70- 8.10 I. The winter.

 

Edit...airline is good idea, although adding airstone would be more effective, also try calibrating probe.

[gsgentry]

I would suggest getting away from the standard Instant Ocean. Go to the Instant Ocean Reef Crystals or Red Sea Coral Pro.

 

And what nanofreak79 meant by "crack a window if need be as well" is open the windows by the tank. Airing out the house so to speak helps with gas exchange or something. Lol I don't know the details, but I know it can help.

[aviator300]

Nano-Sapiens suggested trying to lower my dkh and I would like to do just that but what could I do to accomplish that?

 

No one yet has mentioned my salt mix or use of distilled water, could the "instant ocean salt mix" (not the reef crystals) have anything to do with the high dkh and low ph or maybe using RO instead of distilled water would help raise ph?

 

By the way, my calcium stays at 360 even though I have been dosing "thrive" calcium chloride daily for 5 days.

 

I will find out what my mag level is tonight because I just got my test kit.

[Eclipse]

The problem is usually solved by pointing a powerhead at the surface to increase gas exchange... That's really about it.

[gsgentry]

If you have been dosing and your calcium isn't going up, that tells me that your magnesium is too low. Elevated magnesium levels allow you to have elevated alkalinity and calcium. Again, probably due to the salt you are using.

 

 

You are using a buffer and dosing calcium. I would stop and do one thing at a time. I would let your cycle finish, then do a water change with one of the previously mentioned salts. Then get the test kits you need, or have the LFS do a full panel on your water so you know where all your parameters are. From there, determine if you truly have a problem or not. Just slow down and take it one step at a time.

 

 

As a side note, pH naturally runs low during a cycle anyways due to acids I believe. So when cycling, you can't really put much value into it, in my opinion.

[printerdown01]

Hey,

 

I am with eclipse in that decreasing your surface tension will probably help a LOT! This is my #1 bet. ALSO, when are you taking these readings? First thing in the morning or when you are coming back from work/school? As pH will naturally drop during the night (one of the benefits of running a fugue with a counter light cycle).

 

Pulled analysis below from another site where a guy did a pretty comprehensive gathering of everyones results he could get. This explains the HUGE discrepancy between your high alk and low calc! I am glad to hear that it is holding in the water I would have expected it to come out of solution with a gap this wide (which would cause your dKH to drop and you pH to fall even lower). The IO SHOULD be running at about 8.4… That being said it would not be unheard of to get a bad batch. I would mix and test. Just do a small batch get it up to SG and temp then test the pH. I know people that swear by mixing salts (i.e. mixing 3 different salt brand when doing a water change) in order to reduce the chances of a "bad bag" -as so many things can go wrong from pH, to alk, to iodine levels, or crazy weird trace elements. It is WAY too much work for me to do so, but the idea is solid.

 

P.S. I have completely WRECKED a tank from taking premixed salt from a LFS and adding it to my tank without checking it. I could not figure out why my parameters were SOOO far off. So I did another water change… with another bad batch… Not awesome.

 

 

Oh and stop adding buffers!! I see more people get into trouble from trying to add buffers or meds as a quick fix. In freshwater buffers and meds seem to do very well, but in salt they are a nightmare!

 

Instant Ocean
Temperature - 26c
Salinity - 35ppt
pH (Salifert) - 8.40
pH (Pinpoint) - 8.34
Ammonia - 0ppm
Nitrite - 0ppm
Nitrate - 0ppm
Phosphate - 0ppm
Potassium - 375ppm
Strontium - 0 - 3ppm
Calcium - 365ppm
Magnesium - 1230ppm
Alkalinity - 12.0Dkh

[tran]

in salt water. PH is the least thing that you have to worry

People never pay attention to PH. I've never checked for PH in my 5-6 years in the hobby.

 

Unless you are going to do some extensive corals such as SPS type. Otherwise I wouldn't worry any of the stuffs beside Salinity, Temperature, Ammonia, Nitrate.

[PODPIMP]

in salt water. PH is the least thing that you have to worry

People never pay attention to PH. I've never checked for PH in my 5-6 years in the hobby.

 

I have to agree with this statement, even with SPS. I never see a difference if my PH is running chronically low or high. Ranges from 7.7-7.9 vs 8.0-8.2 I see no freakin deference I made a DIY PH reactor in my current tank using Soda lime. This bumped my PH up and I see no difference!!! I think knowing the PH is more useful to see if something goes out of whack i.e.. calciu reactor malfunction, kalk overdose etc.

[aviator300]

I think I have solved the problem of my low PH once and for all and boy, do I feel DUMB..

 

All you guys who suggested an outside source of Co2 were absolutely correct. I took someones advice and bought some Red Sea Coral Pro and mixed up a batch and did a 50% water change and my PH was 8.2 on my pinpoint monitor. AH HAA, problem solved right? WRONG.

 

The next morning it was back down to 7.5 as usual and then lightning struck my brain.

My tank is only 6 weeks old and (Get this). It sits right smack dab next to my freshwater planted tank that has (you guessed it) a gas co2 system for the plants.

 

Well, I turned off the co2 and sure enough, over about 12 hrs the PH in my reef tank has gone up from 7.51 to 7.89 and rising. I did also open windows to vent the house.

 

I want to thank everyone who replied to my post because all your advice and ideas really helped.

 

I realize that PH issues are not on the to do list of big problems, but it was nice to discover the "cause and effect" of my issue...i'll keep you posted on the trend upward.....AVIATOR300

 

[Eclipse]

Use a powerhead man, that's pretty much it!

[1MP3R1AL]

Kalk.

[Tamberav]

+1 powerhead and +1 chasing pH is pointless unless you overdosed or something.