New full spectrum LED build 40b - A few questions for the LED guys!

[ajmckay]

So after a year I'm finally setting my 40b back up. This time it will be home to 1 or 2 large SPS colonies and possibly a few LPS as well.

 

Based on diagrams in the full spectrum LED layouts thread I've designed/copied 3 layouts which I would like some feedback on.

 

Layout #1:

 

Layout #2:

 

Layout #3:

 

For LED's I'm likely going with LEDgroupbuy since I would really like to use the makers heatsink.

 

So now for the questions:

1) Which layout do you like and why? Remember that it needs to support some SPS. Though I'm not going to have the SPS all over the place, likely 1 or 2 larger colonies near the lighting clusters.

- If you have suggestions for tweaks let me know - this is just an excel sheet that I can easily manipulate.

 

2) 18 or 24" heatsink? Are the heatsinks good as they are in the layouts?

 

3) The hardest part of all this is obviously cost... I was hoping to stay around $300. Of course the makers heatsink is going to add like $50 over a regular one, but the real cost is figuring out how to run all these LEDs. Can you suggest the cheapest way to drive these LEDs while still keeping adjustability?

 

Regarding the "channels", I was hoping to have the RB on one channel, NW on another channel, OCW on another channel, and the TV (and CB if used) on the 4th channel. I figured I could use 4 of the inventronics 40w drivers @ 700mA if I distribute a few of the RB onto the NW driver, but I'm just not convinced I have to spend $130 on 4 drivers.

 

I did find some Meanwell ELN 60-48P drivers for $23, which is a little better, but still $100. Also what's the deal with these LDD drivers? I have an arduino I could use to set up a simple PWM - though I'm not super confident with it so it would have to be something not overly complicated.

 

Anyways, any help you guys can offer would be super helpful as I'm looking to order all this stuff by Friday as I'll be batchin' it up the weekend of the 16th and that would be a great opportunity to work on setting it all up.

[Milad LEDGroupBuy.com]

layout 2 on the 24" heatsink would probably be the best. Nice an tight, will give you great color blending

 

LDD drivers are basically the driver part of the power supply + driver you are usually use to. You then need to get a power supply that can supply the LDD with some good voltage.

 

If you want to keep it simple, stick with the power supply + driver combo which is the inventronics drivers we carry or the meanwell ELN series.

[Singlefin]

That's pretty much what I have. 24". Two clusters. 4 drivers. I'm thinking of adding a few more LEDs. A couple in the center, because that's where my rbta's are and it looks like the need a little more light. Plus they are close to the bottom. Beauty of this Heatsink is you can easily change things around. As far as separating the colors out, I did separate the colors per driver, but everything is running full blast so it wasn't really needed except for the ones that run at 500ma. Those need to be on a separate driver and turned down. The ends of my tank are a little less lighted which is fine since right now I have a frag rack on one side with a bunch of Acans that like less light and a couple sps getting acclimated.

[ajmckay]

Hey all, a huge thanks for the responses!

 

I agree on layout #2, on a 24" heatsink. Unfortunately, it looks like the 3up's are out of stock at LGB until the 15th. This cannot be! Oh well I don't really mind just using individual LEDs anyways, probably helps spread out the heat too.

 

So here's the shopping list:

-16 XT-E RB

-8 Rebel ES NW (5000K) LGB is out of stock

-4 TV (405nm)

-4 HV (430nm)

-4 DR

-4 TQ

-6 CB

-2 Green (525-535nm)

Total: 48 LEDs (divided into 2 clusters of 24)

 

-1 Makers Heatsink 24"

- 2 Meanwell LDD drivers @1000mA (for RB & NW)

- 2 Meanwell LDD drivers @ 700mA (for exotics)

- 1 power supply, 48v, 7.3A (The one found by Jedimasterben - http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-48V-DC-7-3A-350-4W-Regulated-Switching-Power-Supply-/350654730669?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51a4a691ad )

 

I already have an arduino to screw around with some PWM code

 

Sooo... A few more questions. (see the diagram attached)

 

1) I'm not sure what to do about driving the exotics (4Dr, 4TQ, 6CB, 2G) If I used the LEDGroupbuy LED's I'm calculating a vF of 50v... I calculated the vF using Rebel ES leds and I come down to 44v. Can I safely run 50v of LEDs off of the Meanwell LDD driver still even with the 48v driver, or should I use lower vF Rebel's for the exotics? The alternative is to just use the 3up OCW, but I'm thinking the extra 200mA of output I could get with individual LEDs would be nice. What do you think?

 

2) Will this power supply work to power all channels as I have them laid out? As I understand it, the LDD driver will only output the voltage required by the LEDs even though it's receiving 48v. Of course I could be way off on how that works... I did a lot of research like a year + ago on LEDs but sort of stopped when I took down the tank.

 

Thanks again!

[jedimasterben]

Dump the green.

 

Yes, the driver (the LDD) will only output the forward voltage required by the LEDs, up to ~46.5v (it can't convert 100% of the 48v out the other side).

[AlanM]

Dump the green.

 

Yes, the driver (the LDD) will only output the forward voltage required by the LEDs, up to ~46.5v (it can't convert 100% of the 48v out the other side).

Maybe you could adjust the power on the PS up above 48V in order to squeak in the 50V of LED's you're considering? The LDD seems to be able to handle it. Not sure about the power supply in the link, but some are adjustable.

[jedimasterben]

The LDD can handle up to 56v input. The power supply is adjustable up to 52v, which should output about 50v after the LDD. I would still dump the green, it was not because of voltage issues. All white LEDs have too much green as it is.

[ajmckay]

Thanks for the replies. I've decided to drop the green. I'm not exactly sure why I even put them in there to be honest.

 

I do have some warm white 3500K XT-E's left over from another project that I may try in the middle, just for kicks.

 

So attached is my latest schematic, without the green. I'll bump up the power supply slightly to say 52v to accomodate the RB string which calculates to 48v. Thanks for the heads up I didn't realize that some voltage was lost in the driver.

 

So I think my plans are pretty set, I just need to decide if I want to spend the extra $$ on the solderless LEDs at LEDgroupbuy (they are out of the soldered NW and the exotics are solderless @ $5.50) vs. ordering rebels for the NW and the exotics. Does it really matter which I go with? It ends up being about $20 cheaper after shipping by ordering the rebel NW & exotics...

 

How is the reliability of the solderless leds? I know the mechanism well, I had to replace a bunch of outlets around my house that had lost much of their connection. Then again the outlets were probably 15 years old at least...

 

 

Oh, and just as an interesting side note, HeatsinkUSA has appeared with a new T-slot heatsink... Looks beefy.

http://www.heatsinkusa.com/8-460-wide-extruded-aluminum-heatsink-with-t-slots/

[jedimasterben]

The difference between the Rebel ES and XT-E is negligible. LGB says they'll restock on the 15th, so about a week if you're waiting for them. I personally prefer Rebels for the exotics because they are higher output with no heat concerns at full amperage, but that's just me.

 

As for the reliability of the solderless chips, are you planning on plugging and unplugging them all the time like the outlets in your house?

 

I like that the HUSA t-slot sink is wider than the Makers, but Milad says the Makers is patented, so who knows what's going on.

[ajmckay]

Yeah when I saw the heatsink USA one I was thinking the same thing... Then again patents are funny... You change 1 or 2 things and suddenly it's a new patent (speaking as someone who knows very little about real patent law). The thing that I like is the HSUSA one looks considerably thicker, as in more mass. I also like the wider heatsink as I would be able to put on a few quiet 120-200mm fans vs. the 92mm ones.

 

Then again the makers comes with screws/nuts/washers/fans/fan shrouds/trim pieces. I could get either one shipped to my door for the same price... I'm seriously conflicted at the moment...

 

As for the solderless LEDs I think i'll just bite the bullet and give them a try. I'm perfectly capable of soldering them, but I'm going to have my hands full with programming the arduino to run everything. As for the reliability, it indicates on the makers site that you should try to avoid more than 5 re-connections or so. I'm not really planning on switching them around a lot, but I could potentially see moving things around a few times just to get it right... It will be so easy on a t-slot heatsink!

[ajmckay]

Ohhhhhhh snap! I just ordered everything...

 

Total cost: $342.83 - that's the most change I've dropped on anything in quite some time. Still, considering what it is I don't think I did too bad (and considering the price of a similarly equipped commercial fixture or kit).

 

 

I got all solderless LEDs from LEDGroupbuy (they were out of the 3ups and the NW regular LEDs, and next weekend is scheduled for assembly so I had to order the individual LEDs. It was only a few $$ more to move all the LEDs to solderless, and it would have looked funny if just the NW LEDs were solderless). I also got some of the Meanwell LDD drivers to try those out. I'll probably hook it up as an on/off until I can get a better hold of the pwm stuff for arduino.

 

I ended up getting a heatsink from HeatsinkUSA because they're local to me (sort of - I drive by them going to my parents house) and I've gotten stuff from them before. That was the hardest purchasing decision because I love both heatsinks.

 

I like a lot of things about the Makers (that it includes mounting hardware, fans, & splash shield, anodized, nice end caps, dowel holes, etc...) but I also liked the width of the heatsinkusa and the additional mass it has. I'm not an engineer though so I'm sure that either heatsink is perfectly capable of cooling way more LEDs than I can possibly hope to use.

 

Oh, and it's brand new and possibly infringing on a pending patent so I could end up with something pretty rare

 

Then of course I ordered the eBay power supply I linked to earlier.

 

 

Since I didn't get the "kit" heatsink I do need to order a few more things still like mounting screws & nuts. Also, the tank is going to be in an area where I don't want loud noises (TV and dining areas). I've gone to great lengths to make the whole setup really quiet, so with the wider heatsink I'm going to rock one of these: http://www.amazon.com/NZXT-200MM-Silent-700-FS-200RB-BLED/dp/B0052XQFIQ/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1360362108&sr=1-2&keywords=200mm+silent+fan

 

That's 90cfm @ 20db...

 

Again, thanks everyone for the information!

[AlanM]

Wow, when you decide to do it, you do it. Nice. I've been reading and stuff for months. Going to wait until I have water running through my plumbing before pulling the trigger on heatsinks and emitters, but I have the electronics on the way.

[ajmckay]

Haha, we'll it's been a work in progress for quite literally years.

 

Back in 2008/2009 it was too expensive but since then I've been trying to keep abreast of the latest trends and formats. I suppose I just figured that if I was going to do it I might as well now. Plus my family is going out of town next weekend so I'll have some nice quality tinker time.

 

Don't wait too long, once you get water in you'll want to get things going! It takes time to source all the components.

[ajmckay]

*Update based on actual*

 

I went through a few different designs. I'm really glad I sprung for the more expensive t-slot heatsink. It makes re-positioning LEDs sooo much easier. No need to drill/tap or use adhesive that is difficult/impossible to remove.

 

At first I used a round/oval layout, like this.

 

Turns out though it's not very efficient with the solderless LEDs and it makes for funny wiring when one of the benefits of the t-slot heatsinks are to hide the wires.

 

So I decided to re-do the layout to more of a grid pattern which left a few rows empty, but overall brought things together more. I laid out the design using excel and also drew out the wiring scheme in paint before I started.

 

 

Overall I am pretty happy with the layout. It allows for a much nicer wiring scheme and overall the clusters are slightly more compact.

 

Here's a shot with the wires:

[AlanM]

Really good idea with the little marker dots for the colors. Easier to do that on white stars than black ones. Do you have a pic yet of how you mounted the drivers in the middle or is that just an idea so far?

 

They should use your layout as an example of how to use the solder less stars.

[ajmckay]

I'll be posting the build thread in just a few minutes... I just have to wait until I get home to add pictures though because work blocks photobucket.

 

Yeah I skipped lunch today...

 

As for the dots, you can still do it on the side (bare aluminum) parts of the black LEDs or color in an unused solder pad.

[ajmckay]

Link to the build thread

 

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/321516-wavelengths-a-full-spectrum-controllable-led-array/

[mayeendu2013]

good post

[ajmckay]

Cool thanks for checking it out. Hopefully I'll finish it up completely this week.

[ajmckay]

Really good idea with the little marker dots for the colors. Easier to do that on white stars than black ones. Do you have a pic yet of how you mounted the drivers in the middle or is that just an idea so far?They should use your layout as an example of how to use the solder less stars.

You know I'm thinking about submitting the build to Milad because it does show off some of the ease of using the solderless stars. But I'm not sure if he'll want to feature it or not because I didn't use his heatsink. I could have just as easily used the makers heatsink, but I really wanted the 200mm fan.