Help w. Gravity ATO - **SOLVED!**

[PinkDamsel]

I’m not a DIY sorta gal and could sure use some suggestions for mounting a hamster bottle gravity ATO.

 

The tank is at my office, and I only need an ATO for the weekends. Until now I’ve just put a piece of glass over the tank to reduce evaporation, but now with the hot weather (climate control is only on during office hours) the evap has doubled.

 

I’m in a cube, no walls, but there’s an over-the-door coat hook type thing that fits snugly on the partition that I’m hoping will somehow hold the bottle.

 

A kind gentleman from the lfs sawed off the metal spout on the bottle for me and wedged tubing tightly onto the plastic spout, so hopefully that part is OK.

 

 

(Sorry, don't know how to insert thumbnails.)

 

The bottle, BTW, is 30 oz, so 2+ lbs. when full. Also, the tank is currently 9” from the partition, but when my new clip-on light fixture arrives this week the tank will be closer to the partition, @ 4.5”. I mention this because the further the tank is from the back wall, the longer the hose needs to be.

 

So what’s the best way to mount the bottle on the hook thingy? Ideally it should be a way that always positions it exactly the same each time and that you can do 1-handed while the other hand covers the other end of the tube. I’m really wondering how people manage to do this without spilling.

 

Does the angle of the tube matter? Should it be as close to vertical as possible?

 

Also, I’m thinking of cable-tying the tube end to a large paper-clip to help keep it in position. This clip is nice because it’s easy to put on the glass and take off and only the plastic part is in the tank. Experimenting with just a few inches of tube seems to work. Unsightly but to be used only when I’m not there lol. Comments anyone?

 

http://picturehosting.com/images/katmajid/clipside.jpg

 

Advice would be MUCH appreciated!

[Cintax]

With regard to using one handed, you could always install a small ball valve inline near the bottle to stop the flow when you don't need it.

 

If you could find a float switch which operated a valve you could automate this entirety. With gravity feed you have to be able to control the flow or you will flood so make sure you get something reliable.

 

Another option is to use a float switch and relay combined with a small lifter pump. Most people seem to use an Aqua-Lifter for this. Link here. If you aren't really the DIY type there are kits available such as this one from Aqua Hub. Link here.

 

The clip works for me. It really doesn't seem bad at all.

 

By the way, your tank looks amazing. Do you mind giving a little tour of the setup?

[PinkDamsel]

you could always install a small ball valve inline near the bottle to stop the flow when you don't need it.

Thanks SO MUCH for responding - you're the only one who offered suggestions! I've never done a valve, but did find a rubber stopper so we'll see if that works.

 

On the float switch, etc., I did read that a few people had problems with the equipment failing, so I want to try this first.

 

I did come up with a solution for affixing the bottle, inspired by curtain rods. Using the 2 wire things that normally hang the bottle on the hamster cage, the bottom one is hooked over a bolt (the "curtain rod") and held in place on the black coat hooks w. 2 large washers and a wing nut. The top wire helps keep it in place. Pictures are probably better than attempts to explain:

 

 

 

Still need to test it (on a separate container!) & trim the tube.

 

By the way, your tank looks amazing. Do you mind giving a little tour of the setup?

How nice of you to say so! Here's the equipment setup:

 

- 3 gallon JBJ Picotope

- AquaClear 50 HOB filter w. filter floss, carbon, sponge & phosphate pad

- Ice Probe chiller – sits in the AC, held by piece of plexiglass w. a hole for the probe

- Heater

- RKL (ReefKeeper Lite) controller

- Vortech MP10 powerhead

- PAR30 LED light, 4RB/1CW (replacing the fixture)

- Soon: Hamster bottle ATO for weekends

[brandon429]

Pink your installation looks clean. Your cube is very lab like Im jealous!

office tanks are the hardest, and you are several months into a great pico in the toughest environ around cuz you only see it 8 to 10 hrs at a time and leave it alone much more often. its truly a rule breaker

 

What Im interested in following up on is the length of the tubing, how long/short it has to be to feed correctly. Your work will help me w my vase it needs topoff help for week long vacations keep us posted!

Buddy B

[PinkDamsel]

What Im interested in following up on is the length of the tubing, how long/short it has to be to feed correctly.

Been testing the tube at 20", in an "S" curve shape for 2 hrs & it's definitely working! It's really cool to see the air bubbles travel up the tube and then the water run down!

[brandon429]

Im so glad its working, am ready to hide one in my cabinet

very curious to know how it works until total drain of the reservoir. is the replenishment rate the same each time the seal is broken at the end of the tube or does it slow the more is lost from the bottle?

 

thats great to know about the tubing to allow remote storage of the water bottle

thanks!!

[PinkDamsel]

Here's an update of the setup:

 

The tube is 16.5", and new light fixture is installed.

 

This past weekend was the first big test - it WORKED! Um, mostly. About a third of the water was still in the bottle but drained as soon as I removed the lid. I think the lid might have pushed the hose lower in the water, I should have looked at it carefully before moving it - my bad.

 

I still prefer to manually top-off while I'm here, but Thursday I'll set up the ATO and monitor the whole day. In 8 hrs it loses 1+ cup, so if I have just a cup in the bottle I may get an answer for you, Brandon.

 

The tube is nearly horizontal in the water; I don't know if vertical would be better. Does anyone know?

[brandon429]

Wonderful experiment. I may need to copy both your lighting and your topoff setup now that this pic blends it all together, just what I need.

 

 

what a success! That duncan and the candy coral have absolutely added new biomass under that light, the polyps are fuller and I can't wait to find out if any of the candy corals have added new mouths in the center or began to pinch in around opposite sides of a polyp-becoming oblongated etc

 

that signals a division, takes about a year to run fully and split a polyp into two in caulastrea. the test under LED lights is new science, can't wait to absorb it.

 

About the tube output, I can't wait to see if that matters in topoff accuracy. Are you using the dot mark reference on the tank, and then checking to see how far it drifts with the active bottle? Such a helpful thread thank you Ive subbed to it now.

[PinkDamsel]

takes about a year to run fully and split a polyp into two in caulastrea.

Since I've had them (8-9 months), 2 heads have split fully and a third has 2 mouths already. Seems they like to divorce, lol!

 

Are you using the dot mark reference on the tank, and then checking to see how far it drifts with the active bottle?

A piece of tape marks the water level. I think I need to futz a bit to find the right position for the tube end to make it fill to just the right level.

[castiel]

This looks like just what I need. Can I just double check my understanding here.

 

This is literally a hamster bottle, nozzle sawed off, and a piece of tubing that sits in the tank water. When the water goes below the level of the tube end, water is drawn from the bottle until the tank level covers the tube end again.

 

No valves, float switches, or anything?

 

I have never plumbed a thing in my life so I am hoping it can be this simple.

[PinkDamsel]

Castiel, your understanding is 100% correct. No plumbing whatsoever - I didn't even install a valve, just use a rubber stopper on the tube end as shown and it works fine.

 

There's an instructional thread about gravity ATOs in the Pico forum by thesmallerthebetter that I found very helpful.

 

I can't plumb or anything else DIY worth a darn, so trust me, this is ultra simple. Of course, a nice gentleman sawed off the metal piece for me and wedged the tube onto the plastic spout, and another nice gentleman at the hardware store bent the wires over the bolt to hold it, so the Damsel had help . . . .

 

Let us know how yours works out.

[Formula462]

Now you just need to fabricate something that hides all that confusion going on everywhere. It's a cool concept, the gravity ATO. It's just hard to execute and not look like turd.

[castiel]

just use a rubber stopper on the tube end as shown and it works fine.

That is just for when you don't use it, right? Not for when it is actually in use? Sounds like a stupid question now I write it, but just want to make sure.

[PinkDamsel]

That is just for when you don't use it, right? Not for when it is actually in use? Sounds like a stupid question now I write it, but just want to make sure.

Not a stupid question. The stopper is so I can fill the bottle, stopper it, turn it upside down, mount it on the holder & position the tube end at just the right level in the tank all without the water spilling out the tube. THEN I carefully remove the stopper.

 

Someone suggested a valve but I don't know how to do those and the stopper works just fine.

[PinkDamsel]

Now you just need to fabricate something that hides all that confusion going on everywhere. It's a cool concept, the gravity ATO. It's just hard to execute and not look like turd.

Alas, you're right. I gave up the goal of not looking like t**** a long time ago when temperatures forced me to use an Ice Probe and get an HOB to hold it, and temp swings the other way forced me to go w. a big ugly 50w heater instead of the tiny 10w. This is my first, learning tank and my current goals are just stability and healthy livestock. Maybe when I'm more advanced . . . .

[Formula462]

Alas, you're right. I gave up the goal of not looking like t**** a long time ago when temperatures forced me to use an Ice Probe and get an HOB to hold it, and temp swings the other way forced me to go w. a big ugly 50w heater instead of the tiny 10w. This is my first, learning tank and my current goals are just stability and healthy livestock. Maybe when I'm more advanced . . . .

 

it's still cool tho

[PinkDamsel]

it's still cool tho

Thanks, Formula462.

[emanliame]

Since your top off water and the saltwater in the tank are in direct contact via the hose, don't you have issue's with diffusion of the salt into the top off water, and resultant lowering of your salinity?

[PinkDamsel]

Since your top off water and the saltwater in the tank are in direct contact via the hose, don't you have issue's with diffusion of the salt into the top off water, and resultant lowering of your salinity?

Not according to my readings of tank sG.

 

There's a thread somewhere on NR where people speculated just what you said and someone tested it and the salt does not diffuse into the bottle. I don't pretend to understand the physics . . . .

[Jakesaw]

Since your top off water and the saltwater in the tank are in direct contact via the hose, don't you have issue's with diffusion of the salt into the top off water, and resultant lowering of your salinity?

 

That was my first impression of the design too.

[PinkDamsel]

OK. Here's the thread where Hank tested the diffusion theory for a week:

 

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?...p;#entry1785839

 

Here's a step-by-step thread by thesmallerthebetter on making the gravity ATO, also mentions the diffusion issue:

 

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?...bottle++gravity

 

I defer to these gentlemen as knowing more than I. But I can report on my results, which are that it's working. Positioning the end of the tube at just the right level in the tank is key to ensuring the correct amount of water is discharged. I'm still not sure about the optimal angle of the tubing, whether a horizontal slant like mine or more vertical is better.

[Nano sapiens]

Amazing how something as simple as a hamster bottle ATO can cause so much conjecture. Who says science isn't fun

 

The reality is that it works. For all practical purposes, diffusion between freshwater in the bottle and saltwater in the aquarium does not occur. I ran a week long experiment with dyed water a while back as proof of concept.

 

I've had two of these super-simple ATOs running on my 12g for over 3 years and they've performed flawlessly. The tank's salinity has remained very stable.

[PinkDamsel]

I've had two of these super-simple ATOs running on my 12g for over 3 years and they've performed flawlessly. The tank's salinity has remained very stable.

3 years and counting -- now THAT gives me a high comfort level.

 

Thanks, Nanosapiens!

[sean151]

Amazing how something as simple as a hamster bottle ATO can cause so much conjecture. Who says science isn't fun

 

The reality is that it works. For all practical purposes, diffusion between freshwater in the bottle and saltwater in the aquarium does not occur. I ran a week long experiment with dyed water a while back as proof of concept.

 

I've had two of these super-simple ATOs running on my 12g for over 3 years and they've performed flawlessly. The tank's salinity has remained very stable.

Another way to think of it is if it rains, or if you're near a river delta, the freshwater weighs less and floats on top of the denser saltwater. I still never understood how this was a debate and everyone keeps getting upset about it.

[sanchez]

Here's mine in my cubicle. 19 months and counting.