Two Part Tidal Tank

[Chrisl1976]

Just use two return pumps and two sump intakes.

 

LOW TIDE: Low pump is on, High pump is off. Low pump must be valved so it does not flow faster than Lower Intake can accept. The sump will fill up.

 

HIGH TIDE:

 

Low and High pump is ON. The increase flow to the tank is greater than Lower intake can accept and the tank fills to the point where the upper intake accepts the water. The sump will empty.

[Onebaldman]

Just use two return pumps and two sump intakes.

 

LOW TIDE: Low pump is on, High pump is off. Low pump must be valved so it does not flow faster than Lower Intake can accept. The sump will fill up.

 

HIGH TIDE:

 

Low and High pump is ON. The increase flow to the tank is greater than Lower intake can accept and the tank fills to the point where the upper intake accepts the water. The sump will empty.

 

This approach would work, but I think trying to integrate it into the system would take up too much room in the tank because of having to "hide" the extra intake/return. It's a small tank, I still think that one return and one multi-level overflow box would still be the simplest approach.

[Chrisl1976]

This approach would work, but I think trying to integrate it into the system would take up too much room in the tank because of having to "hide" the extra intake/return. It's a small tank, I still think that one return and one multi-level overflow box would still be the simplest approach.

 

 

A single overflow box in the back of the tank would work just the same. Slats on the bottom and top. One intake a low tide level and the second intake at high tide level. Than the two outputs of course..

 

FYI: I like scale drawing.....the shelf is at 8" from the bottom with 2" fill height for low tide above that.

 

[Chrisl1976]

You would not have to seal off the chamber under the shelf. You could open the front of the wall to create a cave effect and increase volume in the tank. Put the lower return in that cave area to push flow through the rock out front.

 

 

 

 

I still think that one return and one multi-level overflow box would still be the simplest approach.

 

 

How would you increase the return volume for high tide with a single pump to overflow the lower intake?

[11GTCS]

Wow thanks for the interest everyone! I like the single baffle tube setup, and I'll look at all of the designs as I talk to Chris at PiCo! I'll post some designs as we go further and keep everyone up to date!

[Onebaldman]

How would you increase the return volume for high tide with a single pump to overflow the lower intake?

 

Because I wouldn't put two intakes...I would only do one. See my previous picture of my suggestions for an overflow.

 

Edit: Re-Reading what you said, I would put a valve on the lower intake of the overflow...normally closed. When you apply power, it would open the valve...causing the low tide to happen. When power was turned off, it would close the low tide intake and the pump would just pump more water into the aquarium until it reached high tide.

[Chrisl1976]

Because I wouldn't put two intakes...I would only do one. See my previous picture of my suggestions for an overflow.

 

Edit: Re-Reading what you said, I would put a valve on the lower intake of the overflow...normally closed. When you apply power, it would open the valve...causing the low tide to happen. When power was turned off, it would close the low tide intake and the pump would just pump more water into the aquarium until it reached high tide.

 

I see what, you have in mind. Personally, I'd stay away from electronic mechanical devices for flow control in a saltwater environment, but that is just me.

[boxboy]

Could u not just have 2 return pumps running. 1 more powerful then the 2nd. set timmesr. this way. when both pumps are running. its high tide. when 1 pump is off the water rises in sump safly. now its low tide. untill both pumps are running again.

still using 1 dubble hole overflow. so no matter what the tank is always being filtered.

[11GTCS]

Could u not just have 2 return pumps running. 1 more powerful then the 2nd. set timmesr. this way. when both pumps are running. its high tide. when 1 pump is off the water rises in sump safly. now its low tide. untill both pumps are running again.

still using 1 dubble hole overflow. so no matter what the tank is always being filtered.

 

That is what I am going with on my final design i think...

[boxboy]

nice

[duoc9119]

Thats why I suggested a herbie style overflow. It could be as simple as 2 bulkheads, one higher than the other, no standpipe.

 

What I am thinking to keep the plumbing simple, is say you are using 1" bulkheads for the drain. The lower drain with have a gate valve connected to that and then a coupler to a 1.5" pipe that enters the sump. The higher drain will have a gate valve, and drain into the 1.5" pipe via a tee under the gate valve of the lower bulkhead.

 

This would let you adjust each drain individually, but one gate valve will not interrupt the other drain, and by adapting both drains to a larger pipe into the sump, you limit the plumbing and have enough room for both drains to drain into the sump properly.

 

Then maybe add a third bulkhead that is completely open for emergency since the tank will fill up too fast for both the low tide and high tide to create the siphon. The water will then eventually level out once the drains reach full siphon

[11GTCS]

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Thats why I suggested a herbie style overflow. It could be as simple as 2 bulkheads, one higher than the other, no standpipe.

 

What I am thinking to keep the plumbing simple, is say you are using 1" bulkheads for the drain. The lower drain with have a gate valve connected to that and then a coupler to a 1.5" pipe that enters the sump. The higher drain will have a gate valve, and drain into the 1.5" pipe via a tee under the gate valve of the lower bulkhead.

 

This would let you adjust each drain individually, but one gate valve will not interrupt the other drain, and by adapting both drains to a larger pipe into the sump, you limit the plumbing and have enough room for both drains to drain into the sump properly.

 

Then maybe add a third bulkhead that is completely open for emergency since the tank will fill up too fast for both the low tide and high tide to create the siphon. The water will then eventually level out once the drains reach full siphon

 

I would want the tank to drain and fill really slow though to simulate tide so would that work then? And do u mean gate valve like electronic or...? I do agree with the emergency bulkhead though. I would definitely do a standpipe, and I would have alternating return with this switch http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod...mp;pcatid=10668

[11GTCS]

I can't wait for this though it's such a neat idea, trying to make it is realistic as possible within a reasonable amount of money is hard though, so it should be a great challenge.

[milk]

following - - - - sounds interesting!

[duoc9119]

A gate valve is like a better version of a ball valve. It is much more accurate when adjusting for flow compared to a ball valve.

 

I'm sure you can achieve the slow rate if you got a pump that pumps just a hair faster than the regular pump. What would happen here is that the 1st overflow will not handle the added flow, which would cause the water level in the tank to rise until it reaches past the second overflow.

 

You can also get the two pumps, making sure one is slower than the other, and test it out. First with the faster pump as the main return, and the slower as the tide effect. If that doesn't work then it is the other way around. Simple as that!

 

The reason you want to have a third just in case is that when the second pump starts pumping water into the tank, the water will rise over the second drain until the drain starts its siphon. So the third is there for extra drainage in case the 2nd drain doesn't go full siphon in time.

 

Then when the second pump turns off, because of the slight difference in pumps, the water will gradually fall in the tank until the water level was back to where it was before with just the 1st drain.

 

It is something I observed with my herbie style drain. Return pump turns off, water level will drop until below the 1st drain. Then when pump starts up, my whole overflow box fills completely until water level in the box is equal to in the tank, then slowly drop to when the drain can handle the load

[11GTCS]

A gate valve is like a better version of a ball valve. It is much more accurate when adjusting for flow compared to a ball valve.

 

I'm sure you can achieve the slow rate if you got a pump that pumps just a hair faster than the regular pump. What would happen here is that the 1st overflow will not handle the added flow, which would cause the water level in the tank to rise until it reaches past the second overflow.

 

You can also get the two pumps, making sure one is slower than the other, and test it out. First with the faster pump as the main return, and the slower as the tide effect. If that doesn't work then it is the other way around. Simple as that!

 

The reason you want to have a third just in case is that when the second pump starts pumping water into the tank, the water will rise over the second drain until the drain starts its siphon. So the third is there for extra drainage in case the 2nd drain doesn't go full siphon in time.

 

Then when the second pump turns off, because of the slight difference in pumps, the water will gradually fall in the tank until the water level was back to where it was before with just the 1st drain.

 

It is something I observed with my herbie style drain. Return pump turns off, water level will drop until below the 1st drain. Then when pump starts up, my whole overflow box fills completely until water level in the box is equal to in the tank, then slowly drop to when the drain can handle the load

 

Yeah that's what I figured I'd use. I'd imagine it will be a lot of tinkering with pump velocities and drain sizes. I'd like to have it take like around 4-6 hours for a drain or fill.

[21093r53]

Here is a photo of what I have in mind.

 

 

 

this looks mad cool whatd the tank builder say?

[11GTCS]

this looks mad cool whatd the tank builder say?

 

Thanks! We are still dialoging but he is really excited and thinks it will be a lot of fun.

[asting]

I have another thing you can do for a "wave" action.

 

 

This is a modified version of what they do at water parks. You would use a vacuum to suck the air out of the box, and then when you are ready for your wave...you would either cut power or open an air valve to break the suction. This would allow gravity to take effect and push the water back into your tank (what they do in water parks) and this should cause a natural wave.

and what happens when you lose power?

[Cintax]

Be sure to include check valves in your design.

[11GTCS]

and what happens when you lose power?

 

Well then the water would just flow into the tank. It would be drawing from the tank anyway so it wouldn't overfill the tank. Especially since it would immediately starting a tide out and drain to low tide naturally.

 

Be sure to include check valves in your design.

 

I will, certainly especially with professional design help on the build.

[Onebaldman]

Be sure to include check valves in your design.

 

Check valves are a good idea in theory, but they are guaranteed to fail at some point in time...in a salt water environment

[Cintax]

I agree but it is better then a pump failing and the water siphoning out. In this case, it might not be bad depending on the final locations of your return and drain lines.

[11GTCS]

Well, as I mentioned above, since the lowest drain would be at low tide setting, it would simply drain at a slightly higher than normal rate until it hit low tide. The place I would put check valves would be on return lines, just because I don't want to back feed the pumps, and because one of those lines may be lower than drains depending on how the design works out.

[Chrisl1976]

I agree but it is better then a pump failing and the water siphoning out. In this case, it might not be bad depending on the final locations of your return and drain lines.

 

The key is design of the height of the lowest intake or return. If he has a 20 gallon sump, you make sure you can only drain out less than 20 gallons of the main tank