LED Aesthetics: What do you really think of your color?

[Mr. Microscope]

So I just upgraded my lighting on my 60gal cube with the general consensus here. about 1:2 neutral white to RB. Its actually. 1:1.714 with a total of 38 leds.

Personally I'm happy with it, but I think it looks a little bit too "purple".

I was thinking that adding a few green led's would balance it back out.

This is based on the RBG color balancing, where I am heavy in the RB but lacking G.

I also understand that the human eye is extremely sensitive to green so I would only add very few like 2 or 4 total.

What does everyone think?

 

This is completely based on human eye aesthetics, not PAR or anything else.

+1, just run your whites higher or turn down your blues a little. My setup has 2xNW, 4xRB, and 1CB. The color is amazing! I run the whites a little higher and get really crisp colors on my corals. Especially on the warmer colors. The addition of the CB also helps with the warmer colors a little. In a larger setup, you could probably get away with NW:RB:CB = 3:6:1. Do you have your color channels on dimmers?

[snguyen77]

I was wondering what NW do you guys prefer? i need to replace my CW, but not sure which one to choose between the crees, rebel, and K2. any suggestions would be much appriciated.

[blasterman]

In order of preference (IMHO), XPG neutrals, K2 TFFC neutrals, and older series Cree neutrals tied with rebels. The K2's are an awesome and rugged emitter (much more durable than rebels) but are discontinued.

 

I use Bridgelux 402 neutrals, but your light has to be specifically built around them.

[DaveFason]

Blaster - I'll need to send you a Rebel ES of mine. I swear the color looks MUCH better than any CREE emitter I have used.

 

-Dave

[blasterman]

Only reason I don't rate the rebels higher than older Cree's or on par with XP-G's is simply because of their sensitivity to thermal inrush.

[DaveFason]

Just be nice to them

[blasterman]

If you run more than half a dozen of them in a series they are fine, but they're dicey in series less than that. Or, just just a thermistor.

[steks]

I am halfway through this topic but already I want to ask a question.

 

I have a 33G tank and I use 60 1W Chinese LED’s 30CW and 30RB, I want to switch to CREE LED’s would this be a good choice:

8 NW XP-G

4 CW XP-G

8 RB XP-E

4 CB XP-E

 

I want to run the whites and blue’s both on a separate channel using Mean Well ELN-60-48D drivers.

[evilc66]

Tank dimensions?

 

Use only neutral whites. Mixing cools and neutrals serves no real purpose.

[blasterman]

Yeah...mixing different values of whites doesn't accomplish much because the spectrums over-lap.

 

Also, I'm currently experimenting with mixing 445s and regular royals, and this looks really good.

 

Evil mentioned awhile back that he didn't care for LEDs deeper in color than typical royals as the primary blue source, and I've confirmed why. 450-455nm is really the sweet spot for blue because it generates a large amount of PAR while providing the most actinic effect without getting too 'windexy'. The 445's I'm using provide lots of light, but they are starting to fall off the actinic ramp and some coral colors, aka reds and oranges don't respond to light < 450nm. Adding a few royals back in fixed the problem without going 'windex'.

 

What this really means is for maximum coloration we need a broader band of blue typical of what halides produce. Royals and neutral LED's get it done quite nicely as we've proven, but blue typically over-lap in the blue region. I'm finding the actinic region which makes reds and oranges jump out the best is pretty narrow.

[evilc66]

Put a 365nm UV LED over a tank and see how reds and oranges react Sorry, no pictures. If you think blue LEDs are hard to photograph, UV is impossible.

[Chutsk10]

Use only neutral whites. Mixing cools and neutrals serves no real purpose.

 

Yeah...mixing different values of whites doesn't accomplish much because the spectrums over-lap.

 

Pardon my LED ignorance but how does mixing CW and NW serve no purpose? The spectrum do overlap to some extent but are they not different?

 

If one fined CW to be too blue, and NW to be too warm wouldn't a 50/50 mix result somewhere in the middle?

[evilc66]

Cool white, neutral white, and warm white all have peaks in the same wavelength ranges, just at different intensities. Using cool white and neutral white in the same array nets you no advantage at all. Now, if the peaks shifted to a different wavelength between the different color temperatures, then that would be different.

 

I don't think anyone will ever find neutral white too warm. The difference in percieved color is pretty small when compared to cool white LEDs, but the color rendering in the tank is improved. Mixing cool and warm white LEDs would get you a blended color, but you might as well use neutral whites at that point anyway. Plus, if any color is too warm, then add in more blue.

 

Another reason to stick with a single color is to reduce color shadows. The more discrete colors you end up using, the more color shadows you see in the tank, which can be distracting. Keep things simple.

[blasterman]

Pretty much what Evil said. Rather than mix CWs and NW's you'd be better off just trying to find a high bin neutral around 4500k.

[Chutsk10]

Cool white, neutral white, and warm white all have peaks in the same wavelength ranges, just at different intensities. Using cool white and neutral white in the same array nets you no advantage at all. Now, if the peaks shifted to a different wavelength between the different color temperatures, then that would be different.

 

I don't think anyone will ever find neutral white too warm. The difference in percieved color is pretty small when compared to cool white LEDs, but the color rendering in the tank is improved. Mixing cool and warm white LEDs would get you a blended color, but you might as well use neutral whites at that point anyway. Plus, if any color is too warm, then add in more blue.

 

Another reason to stick with a single color is to reduce color shadows. The more discrete colors you end up using, the more color shadows you see in the tank, which can be distracting. Keep things simple.

 

Ok so "technically" the CW and NW emit different perceived colors due to different intensities of spectral peaks and a combination would "technically" result in some middle ground color? This is where my logic sort of stood.

 

BUT in regards to aquatic application yo are suggesting that this is pointless because the same effect can be achieved using all NW and some sort of blue . . . plus you will get less color shadows by keeping things more simple. . . .

 

I think I am starting to understand . . . maybe.

[evilc66]

Yeah, you pretty much have it.

[mxpro32]

I've been following this thread with interest, but I didn't really want to dig into my led system again just to switch from cw to nw. Well my fans got turned off and I burned out a bunch of leds so it was the perfect time. While I was at it I switched the burned out rb with b leds (about half) I have to say, I'm pretty impressed with the improved color of my corals. The orange and fleshy tones look much nicer, but I was also surprised to find that the greens looked nicer as well. I have some zoas with green centers where you could barely tell before, and they are a nice green now, and my green rics look brighter as well. has anyone else noticed this?

[Machupicchu]

Half seems like a lot of blue to royal blue. I would think it would very "windexy."

Pictures?

[mxpro32]

Half seems like a lot of blue to royal blue. I would think it would very "windexy."

Pictures?

 

 

I I could take pictures, but I can never get the picture to represent the true color. It doesn't look windexy though. of course I have the blue and the white on dimmers so I turn the blue down til it looks right.

[savageajc]

Great thread, I have a 30"x30"x20" lwh tank

 

thinking about going with 36 Leds, 24RB 7NW 4CB 1 Red in center

 

Any thoughts/ advice? I had an aqua illumination unit and really like the extra pop the blues gave.

But im still not satisfied with red/warmer colors.

 

also, is that a good amount of leds for sps and clams?

[DaveFason]

Ditch the red. It really does not add anything.

 

-Dave

[evilc66]

Great thread, I have a 30"x30"x20" lwh tank

 

thinking about going with 36 Leds, 24RB 7NW 4CB 1 Red in center

 

Any thoughts/ advice? I had an aqua illumination unit and really like the extra pop the blues gave.

But im still not satisfied with red/warmer colors.

 

also, is that a good amount of leds for sps and clams?

Like Dave said, ditch the red. You should change your ratio of blue to white though. Right now, you are at a 3:1 ratio (including the blues). This will be a 20K+ color temperature, and won't have that great a color range. Get it closer to 2:1.

[savageajc]

ok thanks dave & evil didnt notice how many blues to whites I had lol.

I will go with 16RB 8NW 4 CB

 

Will the lower amount be ok? or should i stick with 36

 

20RB 12NW 4 CB

 

Also, should I go for 1 large heatsink, 7x7 ok? Will be running a fan or 2

[Pilg0re]

I'm currently in the design process of my fixture for my SPS/Clam dominated 75g (read super high light).

 

Here's a quick google sketchup of what I have planned. Everything is at about 1.5" spacing with the blues being RB, the more aqua color being regular blues and the whites being xm-l neutral whites driven at 2800mA. As far as optics I am planning on going with no optics or 80 degrees for the blues. I know I can probably use less LEDS but I'm concerned about color mixing and I like being able to dim the lights down to where I need them to be.

 

The last fixture I build was before people started mixing the neutral whites and regular blues, so if you could give me some advice on what I have that would be great.

 

Thanks!

[evilc66]

ok thanks dave & evil didnt notice how many blues to whites I had lol.

I will go with 16RB 8NW 4 CB

 

Will the lower amount be ok? or should i stick with 36

 

20RB 12NW 4 CB

 

Also, should I go for 1 large heatsink, 7x7 ok? Will be running a fan or 2

I'd stick with 36 LEDs, and go with your second setup. If you are planning a 6x6 array, then you are going to been something bigger than a 7"x7" heatsink. If you stick with 2" spacing, then you are going to need a minimum of an 11"x11" area. Mix and match heatsinks to get the size you need. A pair of 11"x5.886" HeatsinkUSA units side by side will do the trick.

 

I'm currently in the design process of my fixture for my SPS/Clam dominated 75g (read super high light).

 

Here's a quick google sketchup of what I have planned. Everything is at about 1.5" spacing with the blues being RB, the more aqua color being regular blues and the whites being xm-l neutral whites driven at 2800mA. As far as optics I am planning on going with no optics or 80 degrees for the blues. I know I can probably use less LEDS but I'm concerned about color mixing and I like being able to dim the lights down to where I need them to be.

 

The last fixture I build was before people started mixing the neutral whites and regular blues, so if you could give me some advice on what I have that would be great.

 

Thanks!

Seems like massive overkill, even for a high light tank. For something like this, that uses very high output whites in low volume, I'd use a cluster approach. Stick with the XM-L neutrals in the center (or Bridgelux n802s, which run on lower current, but higher voltage, and may be easier to get drivers for), with 6-8 blue LEDs surrounding it (one of these LEDs will be regular blue, and the rest royal). Keep clusters on about 4-5" spacing. Not sure what your heatsink size is, but I think a layout for the clusters would look something like this:

 

X---X---X---X---X---X---X---X

--X-----X---X---X---X-----X--

X---X--------------------X---X

--X------------------------X--

X---X--------------------X---X