Protein Skimmer for a Nano, Putting it to rest for now

Hi..when I first joined this forum a few months ago and prior to setting up my 24G NC, the first post I placed here was asking for a protein skimmer recommendation. I received '0' responses. DOH! No wonder...this topic is one of the most 'controversial' subjects here and probably one of the most under-researched prior to placing that post question. It makes sense tho' for us 'newbies' since the responses are always divided. So, I've tried to review some of the recent posts and summarize a bit: what is consensus here to help some of us. I also will add a poll for those who skim...I'm hoping the more experienced nano-reefers will post one more time. Then perhaps, at least for 2005, you can rest the typing to this question. The fine print...always do your own research...experience is the best teacher...and never trust everything you read:

What is a Protein Skimmer and Why Skim

Our nano-systems are closed environmental systems..what we put in, does not easily come out. The addition of livestock, live rock and food adds nutrients and proteins that can accumulate and form dissolved organic acids (DSO's). As these accumulate, they can be a source of fodder for algae blooms, cyanobacteria and contribute to poor water condition which could also affect the well-being of corals.

A protein skimmer is a device that 'culls' these DSO's out of our systems. Without going into physics or the mechanical design of skimmers (that's for you to read up on), a skimmer is a chamber that creates a jet of bubbles. As the bubbles pass upward through this system, DSO's adhere to the bubble's surface and are released when the bubble bursts. These proteins are then collected at the surface in a cup for removal. A protein skimmer could also be included under the heading of a device for 'nutrient export'.

What is the Difference Between Wet and Dry Skimming?

Here is the answer recently supplied by FAC_WNY:

"Wet skimming" is when you set your collection cup lower/increase your water level...it creates a "wetter" foam, and pulls out a lot of nutrients at, of course, the loss of a lot of water.

"Dry skimming" is when you set your collection cup higher/decrease the water level...it creates a stiff, "dry" foam that is usually very dark in color. It doesn't pull out quite as many organics and you don't lose very much water at all.

The Pro's of Skimming

Here are some of the consistent comments about advantages of skimming:

1) helps with overall water quality

2) replicates nature, waves crash and skim the oceans leaving skim on beaches

3) water changes are periodic and skimming is constant

4) gives a margin of error in terms of overfeeding

5) skimming the bad far outweighs whatever 'good things' are skimmed

6) one can't test for skimmable products likes metabolites, intermediates, toxins, etc and there are no good data out there as to what 'good nutrients' are skimmed off

The Con's of Skimming

Here are some of the consistent comments about going without a skimmer:

1) removes desirable nutrients

2) too large and make too much noise

3) require additional plumbing or don't fit well with certain systems

4) it's an unnecessary expense if you are consistent with water changes, light stocking and not overfeeding

5) creates microbubbles in the tank

6) possible oxidation of sensitive molecules (one poster listed iodine)

7) some ricordia/zoanthids prefer a small amount of DSO's

How Do I Decide if I Should Buy One

Here are some thoughts to help you decide on whether or not to buy a protein skimmer:

1) What is my bioload....am I heavily stocked (not a good idea for a nano) or do I have heavy polluters?

2) Do I have a tendency toward overfeeding or do I have no other methods for nutrient export (no refugium or macroalgae)

3) Lack of dedicated time for tank maintenance and water changes (not a good habit for a nano but sometimes unavoidable for busy workers)

Can I Make My Own Skimmer?

Yes you can. There are many do-it-yourself (DIY) skimmer posts out there. Here are a few links:

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/showthread...ght=DIY+Skimmer

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/showthread...ght=DIY+Skimmer

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/showthread...protein+skimmer

What Protein Skimmer Should I Buy?

This is where I'll ask the more experienced nano-reefers to come back and at least do the poll for a final rendering of who is using what out there.

Summary

In summary, the choice of using a protein skimmer is all yours. There is still no definitive consensus, however, IMO, after being here for a few months I think the advocates of protein skimming are in the majority (unless the water changers are just not posting). While posting this and prior to the poll results, Skilter and Visi-Jet skimmers appear to get the worst comments. For us NC owners, there isn't a skimmer that fits into our tanks, so, options include:

--using an external skimmer either periodically so it doesn't destroy the beauty of your tank or plumbing it by drilling holes thru the hood in the back or

--waiting and checking in with Chris at nanocustoms.com. They are reportedly designing an internal protein skimmer to fit in the back in chamber 2.

Good luck everone. Hope this helped. SH

for your pole I had to go with other....while I am not actualy running it right now I am waiting for it to come I bought a CSS (coralife super skimmer) for a 20L...BTW that is the new needle wheel one..

FAC_WNY recently clarified wet and dry skimming and I added it to ths thread. SH

I have the AquaC Remora, although I have only had it a week, I am very happy with what it is pulling out of the tank.

This is the first skimmer for me. I ran my Eclipse 12 for 1 1/2 years, and a year now on the 15g. Both skimmerless. My tank also has a very high bioload. I have always run a Fuge, and have never missed my weekly water changes. I got a really good deal on one so decided to give it a try. I also wanted to give my tank the best conditions possible. If the skimmer can help with that, then it will be will worth it.

And if it makes my corals happy, then I will be happy too

Bob

Thanks Bob. SH

AquaC Remora

Thanks Travis. SH

AQUA C!

I think it will be AquaC all the way. Great skimmer, not too bad of a price, easy to install, and does what it was intended to do. And if I might add, VERY QUIET.

Bob

Yeah, it is realy quiet.

I have a AquaC urchin ready to go on my 20L, but I am keeping an eye on the CSS125.

Steelhealr - let me add something here. The whole process of foam fractionation is based on a molecules hydrophobicity (whether or not a molecule is happy in a watery environment). In the reaction chamber of a skimmer the interface between air and water collects molecules that are hydrophobic (they don't like water) and they aDsorb onto those bubbles in an attempt to minimize the amount of water around them. Example, if you're in an alley getting attacked by dogs with no way out...you put your back to the wall to minimize contact. As a consequence, these molecules are then whisked up toward the collection cup.

Not bad for 22 votes. Thanks. SH

Alright.....who voted "skilter"

Poll Invalid - I did not see "None" as an option...

Sorry Tae..the poll is not invalid. The poll isn't for who skims and who doesn't..but..if you look at the title of the post and the request I put in the thread, the poll was to find out WHAT skimmer nano-reefers are using for THOSE THAT USE THEM. Thanks. SH

Up to 35 votes....I hope this helps the skimmer post searchers. SH

AquaC Remora still seems to be the frontrunner. SH

man, im beginning to sound like a broken record....

there's no way i'd do a nano without a skimmer, i think it's just plain dumb to rely on water changes, but if you like algae, problems with coral and fish health, poor water quality then i guess it's o.k.

your tank will never fully stabalize, or reach long term homeostasis, all it will ever know is chemical and nutrient levels that are perpetually unstable, FOREVER!!! :x

let me tell you how i really feel:)

I have to disagree with reefout. I know this post is not about debating to have a skimmer or not. I have had a 20 L for approx 10 months without a skimmer. All of my tests are perfect. Since my cycle was done, my water has had great readings and I have only had one break out of cyano which was right after the cycle. I do not have an algae problem in my tank with out a skimmer either. When I do add a skimmer, I am sure my water will be more crystal clear, but my test kits show my water quality is good. I also do not add any chemicals at all to my tank and never have. My scooter blenny, coral beauty, open brain, montipora, sun corals, zoos and xenia are all very healthy and I have had them for 6-7 months. The only fish I lost was a tiny clown for lack of acclimation time. I am not saying skimmerless is the best way to go but I also dont think it is "dumb".

im sorry but i dont consider 10 months long term stabiliy, reef tanks that are a year old are still infantile. also i keep vastly more complex corals than you do. i didnt say you couldnt do it, just that i thought it was dumb.

the reason why i think it's dumb is because in a small tank with comparatively no buffering capacity things happen so fast, i feel it is imperative to have the ability to "clean it up" as quickly as possible, also i feel the addition of oxygenation via skimming is paramount to livestock health, and often understated.

finally, this is just my opinion, and the opinion of just about any of the pros i talk to, but an opinion neverless.

Here's a couple more links to diy skimmers to add to your list:

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/showthread...&threadid=53973

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/showthread...20&pagenumber=1

thanks everyone. I'm gonna s-can my bakpakcpr not b/c i'm having any probs with my water quality. It's just that the skimmer only pulls a little yellowish brown water rarely with any chunky substance and I want to see if it makes a noticeable difference. so i'll give the aqua c a chance.

pat

I've been reefing for about 12 years and have always run a skimmer on my tanks. I wouldn,t reef without one. I have been using my Aqua C for about 3 years and have now put it on my nano cube 24. My water clarity is great. I however only run it for about 10 hours a day for now. It seems to work well on this schedule.

Strictly water changes, 2 5% changes per week on every 3rd day. Never a problem with algae overgrowth or cloudiness due excess "organics" in the tank. Manual surface skimming done with a measuring cup during water changes and all is good.

...the battle continues...LOLOL. Although the 'skimmees' seem to be in the majority, the 'changees' still have a good handle here and I think the debate will go on. I think we're always going to get the 'should I skim a nano' question. SH