zoanthid- poison- urband legend or worth looking at? urban legend

most people know this- but i haven't seen much talk on this subject here...

the Palytoxin in zoos....

"

The crude ethanol extracts of the Palythoa toxica proved to be so toxic that an accurate LD50 was difficult to determine. More recently, the toxicity has been determined to be 50-100 ng/kg i.p. in mice. The compound is an intense vasoconstrictor; in dogs, it causes death within 5 min at 60 ng/kg. By extrapolation, a toxic dose in a human would be about 4 micrograms. It is the most toxic organic substance known!"

so a few q's

1- does anyone here have any stories or facts or rants they know about this neuro toxin being it is in one of the most common animals in a reef tank? [some guy had a dog that died on RC... after eating.... not that we will eat the zoos. or smoke the shroms in the tank

2- any one here wear gloves, wash hands after, etc. or do anything else to protect themselves form this potential danger?

there is a lot of different opinions in this.. and i have not yet found a fellow reefer dead. but is worth looking at as it is a health hazard....

Supposedly more toxic types would be weeded out by customs.... But I believe almost everything in our tanks can be bad for us, I mean , the corals are killing each other...... Just wash after handling, don't squish and lick , and you'll be fine, I am sure Brian over at the logical reef isn't running around with radioactive protective gloves on.

I heard a story about a guy fraggin some zoos in a bucket. After he was done he went to was his hands but his dog drank out of the bucket.

within an hr the dog had died. =(

don't know how much of this story is true though, but it's definately very very sad.

I always wash my hands after putting them in the tank, but then again I don't put them in the tank that often, I usually wear gloves.

Maybe that's what happened to ESPI.

i've read several boks that say they are but im too lazy to pull up an article. i also read that one about the guy and his dog.

after reading up, i thought i might have a faint tingling sensation in my fingers after handling certain zoo's...but it could've been my head playing tricks on me. at any rate, i have started washing my hands after handling zoos. but not wearing gloves, because then it hinders the sensation.

ummm palytoxin comes from the polyps in the palythoa genus.

Zoos are from genus zoanthus, button polyps are from genus protopalythoa. So I don't worry, I don't have any palythoa in my tank, just lots of zoos.

Stop the misinformation!!!

makes sense....

so are they harmful to humans or not?

the key here is to know what you are putting in your tank, and treat everything with care and respect. I have a freshwater tank also and I don't go letting my dog drink from water changes from that tank either. nor would I go randomly squishing anything in either tank.

its just common sense people. research your corals before you buy them, note the risks associated with said coral, and handle accordingly.

fear is the propagation of ignorance.

I stuck my hand in the tank the other day to separate a peice of zoo mat from the main colony. Forgot that I had a nice fresh cut on my knuckle.

The only ill effect I can report from that is that I did feel slightly groggy and a little bit heady after messing around with the tank. Then again, that could also be from the bending, stooping and akward reaching to mess with my tank.

-Sumbel.

From what I've read so far, palytoxin appears to have a few nasty physiological effects. Vasoconstriction (ie., caused your blood vessels to constrict), and hemolysis (i.e., causes red blood cells to break apart).

If you search the terms 'palytoxin and coral' in the PubMed database (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f....fcgi?db=PubMed), you get 11 articles.

I downloaded one of these articles which was of particular interest, entitled 'Studies on the origin and distribution of palytoxin in a Caribbean coral reef.; Toxicon. 1995 Nov;33(11):1531-7. After reading this article, I am definitely going to be wearing gloves..

Anyways, here's an excerpt from the introduction:

Palytoxin ( PTX ) is considered to be one of the most potent compounds, exhibiting extreme

toxicity in mammals (i.v. LD50 10-100ng/kg; Vick and Wiles, 1975), surpassed only by

bacterial toxins. It has been primarily isolated from the marine zoanthids Palythoa (Moore

and Scheuer, 1971; Attaway and Ciereszko, 1974; Beress et al., 1983). PTX produces a

broad range of effects in vivo as well as in vitro (Habermann, 1989). The toxin acts through

the Na ÷, K÷-ATPase of cell membranes, inducing channel or pore formation by the

enzyme protein. Despite its high lethality in terrestrial animals the toxin occurs also in

crabs (Yasumoto et al., 1986), in a sea anemone (Mahnir and Kozlovskaya, 1992) and in

fish (Hashimoto et al., 1969; ***ui et al., 1987; Kodama et al., 1989) without causing

deleterious effects.

The present study was performed to investigate the origin and sequestration of PTX in

a coral reef ecosystem.

And an excerpt from the discussion:

The results of this study support the assumption that PTX is more widespread in marine

ecosystems than anticipated. As well as in Palythoa species the toxin was found in

Zoantharia of the genus Zoanthus, space competitors of Palythoa in the coral reef.

Moreover, animals such as crustaceans (Platypodiella sp.) living in close association with

Palythoa colonies or polychaete worms (Hermodice carunculata) feeding on Palythoa

sequester PTX. Since high concentrations of the toxin have been detected in the body of

these animals, they must have developed considerable resistance to the toxin. This also

applies to other marine animals where PTX has been detected, such as fish (Hashimoto

et al., 1969; ***ui et al., 1987; Kodama et al., 1989), crabs (Yasumoto et al., 1986) and

a sea anemone (Mahir and Kozlovskaya, 1992). Whether this involves their Na +,

K+-ATPase, the primary target of PTX (Habermann, 1989), undergoing molecular

changes preventing interaction with the toxin, or other mechanisms such as membrane

resistance to pore formation, has still to be elucidated. However, resistance to the toxin

renders its role as a deterrent for potential predators questionable.

The origin of PTX is still a matter of speculation. Moore et al. (1982) suggested a

bacterial origin, which has never been corroborated experimentally. Other potential

producers such as symbiotic algae, which are able to synthesize secondary products similar

to PTX (Nakamura et aL, 1993) and which live in large masses in the mesogloea of

the Zoantharia, may also be considered. But the lack of correlation between algae (i.e.

chlorophyll a content) and PTX content appears to contradict their involvement in toxin

synthesis. However, direct proof that the algae are toxin producers or are not involved in

PTX synthesis may be achieved by culturing the isolated zooxanthellae.

Distribution and sequestration of palytoxin in coral reef animals.

Toxicon. 1999 Nov;37(11):1521-7.

Abstract

In the reefs off the Colombian coast (Caribbean Sea) and around Lizard Island,

Australia (Pacific), palytoxin ( PTX ), which has been detected in zoanthid species of the

genus Palythoa, also occurred in various other marine organisms living in close association

with zoanthid colonies, e.g. sponges (Porifera), soft corals (Alcyonaria), gorgonians

(Gorgonaria), mussels, and crustaceans. Predators, e.g. polychaete worms (Hermodice

carunculata ), a starfish (Acanthaster planci ) and fish (Chaetodon species) feeding on

Palythoa colonies, accumulate high toxin concentrations in their organs, where PTX is

stored in its active form. The high level of toxin tolerance observed in marine animals may

enable the wide distribution of PTX in marine biota and its transport and sequestration in

food chains.

Palytoxin ( PTX ), one of the most potent marine natural products, appears to

follow this pattern. It is primarily found (or produced) in zoanthids (Palythoa and

Zoanthus species; Moore and Scheuer, 1971; Gleibs et al., 1995) and in

dinoflagellates (Ostreopsis sp.; Usami et al., 1995), but has also been identified in

crustaceans living in close association with Palythoa colonies and in polychaete

worms preying on the zoanthids (Gleibs et al., 1995). Moreover, several fish

species have been shown to contain PTX (Hashimoto et al., 1969; ***ui et al.,

1987; Kodama et al., 1989). The present paper describes further studies on the

distribution of PTX in marine animals from Caribbean and Paci®c coral reefs.

Discussion

Palytoxin acts through the Na+, K+-ATPase, the sodium pump of cell

membranes, by converting the enzyme into a cation-selective ion channel

(Habermann, 1989; Scheiner-Bobis et al., 1994; Wang and Horisberger, 1997;

Hirsh and Wu, 1997). This mechanism of action is underlying the delayed lysis of

erythrocytes observed in vitro (Habermann et al., 1981). Blocking of this effect by

preincubation of the red cells with ouabain indicate that PTX is indeed involved,

because both compounds possess overlapping binding sites on the the Na+, K+-

ATPase. The present study confirms that by applying delayed haemolysis assay,

PTX can be easily and accurately determined in biological samples.

The data obtained by analyzing the PTX-content of Palythoa species, of other

invertebrates and fish support previous assumptions that PTX is widely distributed

in marine biota (Gleibs et al., 1995; Mebs, 1998). It occurs not only in zoanthid

species, e.g. Palythoa spp. (Kimura et al., 1972; Attaway and Ciereszko, 1974;

Moore and Bartolini, 1981; Uemura et al., 1981), but also in other marine animals

representing different taxa: in a sea anemone (Mahnir and Kozlovskaja, 1992), in

crustaceans (Yasumoto et al., 1986; Alcala et al., 1988, Gleibs et al., 1995) and

fish (Hashimoto et al., 1969; ***ui et al., 1987; Noguchi et al., 1987; Kodama et

al., 1989; Tosteson et al., 1995). This list can be further extended by including

various sponge, gorgonian, soft coral, mussel, one echinoderm species (crown-of-

thorns starfish) and several butterfly fish species (Chaetodon spp.). Animals living

near or among zoanthid colonies may incorporate PTX either by filltering like sponges and mussels or by other unknown mechanisms like gorgonians and soft

corals. It is interesting to note that the PTX-content of some soft corals and

mussels (100±200 HU/g) clearly exceeds the maximum PTX concentration (up to

85 HU/g) of the Palythoa species tested.

Much higher PTX-values were detected in predators of zoanthids: polychaete

worms, the crown-of-thorns starfish (240.5 HU/g) and in the intestines of some

Chaetodon fish. The fact that these organisms contain the active toxin in their

tissues, as demonstrated by the haemolysis assay, provides evidence for the

sequestration and accumulation of PTX in marine food chains. This is further

substantiated by the observation that some fish had no detectable amounts of

PTX in their intestines, but exhibited high toxin concentrations in skin, muscle or

liver.

Marine animals seem to tolerate high PTX-concentrations, which are lethal to

terrestrial vertebrates. The LD50 for rodents is in a range of 10±100 ng/kg (i.v.

injection; Vick and Wiles, 1975). On the other hand, data of preliminary

experiments performed on isolated cells from rainbow trout (Oncorhynchus

mykiss ), e.g. on erythrocytes, gill cells and hepatocytes, indicate that on a cellular

level PTX still exerts its pore- or channel-forming activity by involving the Na+,

K+-ATPase (Gleibs and Isomaa, in preparation). However, the mechanisms of

masking or inhibiting the toxin's activity while it is transferred and stored in the

body of many marine organisms, are still unknown.

Not reading all that. I just wash my hands after I've had them in the tank.

To reiterate. Common sense.

I'm not going to read the whole thread, we covered this a couple months back.. It all came down to Those Toxics are only POSSIBELY present in a certain type of Zooanthid that comes from ONE tiny area off some island. Not very likely to make it into your tank.

not zoanthus, palythoa.

You can find palythoa mats/rocks online at several shops, even the major ones.

me + post = brainfart. yes palythoa,

read calfo's book please.

http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/showth...=&threadid=1242

a guy had a close call, with what he says are zoos.. fragging... exploded got in his mouth.. E-room, numb hands for a week... again, the common sense rule would cover this.. but wierd stuff does happen..

So i take it when i get a mouthful of water from my tank when starting up my syphon that its not a good idea? hehe I always get headaches after using a syphon but i just put it down to the salt water!

yea.. def not the best of ideas.. though many have done it with no effects... unless you know every, and i say every organism that lives in your tank.. backwards and forwards.... mucus, loose stinging cells. not the best thing to get in your mouth..

i use the submersion way.. or if you have a valve submerge, then stop it.. then open when ready to start the movement through the siphon.

Well, I got really sick from them. I have both zoos and palythoa in my 16 gallon aga bow front in large quanities. While doing a water change I was trying to get a syphon going and swallowed a big gulp of water. Several days later I got flu like sysptoms but worse and stranger. I had a dry cough and tightness in my throat. I had no congestion in head or chest and no runny nose. I felt like I was drugged and dizzy at times. I'd go to work and come home after two hours because I was running a fever of 103 and dripping wet. I'd lie down and rest and it would get better but I felt out of it. I went to doctor twice and spent a day in the hospital. It was the strangest sickness I've ever had in 43 years, like I said I felt like I was drugged not sick. I missed 4 days of work in two weeks and have never been so ill in my life!

Could have been more than just paly toxins though. Never smart to swallow tank water.

As for handling, I just use some disposable gloves whenever I work in the tank or frag corals.

i always wash my hands before and after, but i'm allergic and don't want to have any surprise reactions while home by myself. as for the water changing, i can't submerse my hose all the way in my tank so i just stick in one end and use my turkey baster to push water down the tube. works like a charm, taste better.