I need peroxide advise for a tank drain method

[Bishop]

I've been cleaning up my tanks. One of my biggest problems at the moment is hair algae. I've got two tubs to drain the whole tank into. The question is, once I get all the algae expossed for direct peroxide dosing, How much peroxide can I use? Wouldn't this just drain down into the tank water anyway?

 

I was thinking of rinsing the rocks off a bit with tank water and then draining most of the remaining water out to remove the h202. I really don't know how h202 works though. I understand it as something that just breaks down. If this is the case, should I be waiting for the peroxide to break down and then just fill the tank back up? How long would that be?

 

Really, what's the detailed run through if you have a serious case of algae going on?

 

Thanx.

[matt frizz]

Stop right there my friend. What it sounds like you're planning to do is drain your tank water into some bins to expose the live rock and algae (still in the tank). Then directly pouring the peroxide onto the rock/algae (while it's still in your tank).

 

You have the idea wrong. You are supposed to REMOVE the rock from the tank before directly pouring H202 onto it. So remove the rocks you want to spot treat, pour the H202 onto the rock, let sit for 3 minutes out of water, rinse with tank water, and then replace.

 

If you are trying to dose your tank then you still have the wrong idea. You would dose small amounts of it to the entire tank to kill it over time. I don't know the specifics but there is an extremely helpful thread in the pest/desease treatment section. Search and you'll find it.

 

Definitely don't do what it sounds like you were planning to do. It makes no sense. If i misunderstood your methods then I'm sorry but that's how it comes across.

 

 

I did this today and I planned it around a water change. I prepared 10 gallons of water last night, removed 10 gallons today. So then I had four 5-gallon buckets, two with tank water, two with fresh saltwater. I also had an empty 5 gallon bucket.

 

EDIT: If I misunderstood you and you meant how are you going to pour the H202 onto the rock w/out it dripping into the tank water then just don't pour the H202 onto the rock above the water you plan on using lol. I made a 1 cup of H202 for 5-gallons of old tank water mixture. For my rocks with zooanthids on them i put them in the mixture for 3 minutes. For pieces without coral on them I actually poured small amounts of H202 onto the rock and let them sizzle for 3 mins. Regardless of which method you use, rinse the rock in the old tank water w/out the H202 real well. Then replace it. You shouldn't have to drain your whole tank.

[brandon429]

I do the drain method on a one gallon vase

 

A remove and treat is best, but since my rocks can't be removed I have to do a drain and treat

 

The technique is this:

Depending on what animals you have, we know the tank can take and sustain some peroxide.lots of people in the thread are adding it directly to their tanks...

 

when doing an in tank treatment, you can use less peroxide because it's been concentrated on the target

a popular method is to do the in tank treatment and then do a large water change to export it back out

 

 

the amount left in the tank is still less than if you dosed the whole tank to begin with

 

I've seen your tank thread and peroxide is a good idea

 

give us a list of all the corals and invertebrates you have

 

use a couple drops on each area of the target

 

and don't treat the whole take at once, spread it out over a couple of days

run some water changes after each treatment to be safe

 

your tank is actually a viable candidate for whole tank treatment

 

depending on the list of animals do you have

 

it is so infected that it's probably best to dose the whole tank when running and wait until the algae dies off

the very first post on the peroxide thread was that kind of treatment

[brandon429]

bishop we should fix your tank right here in this thread we're always looking for proof that peroxide treatment works as posted

[Bishop]

Thanx brandon. I'll prepare to do a tank drain within the next couple days. I'll try to get a list of the livestock tonight. I know my xenia is not a fan of peroxide and zoas and pallys don't mind it. Lost about the rest.

 

As for anyone that says I should remove the rock... I understand where you are coming from but the rock in my tank is not moveable. It is large and burried in 4+ inches of sand consisting of burrows such as the underground jawfish mansion.

 

As the tank drain method goes underway. I'll be sure to snag some photos.

[Bishop]

The Livestock list is the part I always hate most. Here goes.

 

Start with

Fish

Two Ocellaris Clowns

Six-line Wrasse

Starry Blenny

Yellow Head Jawfish

 

Inverts

Urchin, may be rock boring. Not to sure.

Pair of Coral banded shrimp.

Pom Pom crab

emerald crab.

Anemone Porcelain crab.

Serpent Star.

A large generic bi-valve. Just looks like a baseball size rock.

 

Anemone and Coral

RBTA

Maxi mini carpet anemone

Neon red mushrooms.

Rodactis shroom.

Other shroom.

Various zoas, palys and some green button polyps.

Acropora.

Frogspawn

Hammer

Pulsing xenia.

green toadstool leather.

Duncan.

Candy canes.

Chalice.

Micromussa.

Acans.

Green Star Polyp.

 

Clean-up Crew

Two mexican turbos.

hermit crabs.

Nassarious snails. About 7

Cerith snails. 3-4

Astrea Snail.

 

 

Think that covers is.

[brandon429]

Actually none of those are hypersensitive to limited use, I have nearly the same corals and the inverts we've seen treated on other posts

 

Can we get a full tank shot in this thread

just a check for additional details

 

that's a heck of a stocking list!

 

my opinion is to take the treatment in steps rather than all at once

 

when you drain your tank for treatment you don't have to use all new water to refill, so other than the actual work in draining and refilling a few times it shouldn't be too costly

this is your other tank we are about to treat, not the 1 you posted pictures on being the worst tank right

[ignatz]

Here's how I treat in a tank full of water. First I do a manual removal of the hair algae like melev describes. Next, I take an eyedropper full of H2O2 and apply it directly to the problem algae in the tank. This type of treatment works especially well on cyano and hair algae but unfortunately does nothing for the wiry 'turf' algae. I find it works best for problem spots on SPS because it's gentler than the direct application in the air (unless you're careful to make sure the H2O2 doesn't touch the SPS flesh). If you're going to drain your tank, I suggest you make sure that no H2O2 can touch any SPS exposed to air during treatment. In addition to the manual removal, I like to run a phosphate remover (esp. if I don't 'need' it) to be sure that the hair algae doesn't have the materials it needs to re-grow it's broken hairs.

 

-- My Opinion starts here --

There are lots of threads that talk about using H2O2 but I haven't read any that describe the why. My theory is that it causes an instantaneous ORP reduction in a small localized area. I think the ORP drop causes the algae to decompose slightly which makes it more palatable to my hermits, meaning they won't touch it before the H2O2 treatment but completely remove it in one night after application. Just my working theory...

[Bishop]

Actually none of those are hypersensitive to limited use, I have nearly the same corals and the inverts we've seen treated on other posts

 

Can we get a full tank shot in this thread

just a check for additional details

 

that's a heck of a stocking list!

 

my opinion is to take the treatment in steps rather than all at once

 

when you drain your tank for treatment you don't have to use all new water to refill, so other than the actual work in draining and refilling a few times it shouldn't be too costly

this is your other tank we are about to treat, not the 1 you posted pictures on being the worst tank right

 

This is the nasty one. My other tank really didn't have much wrong with it other than a quarter million red flatworms.

Will work on the FTS.

[brandon429]

Ignatz that was a great post good food for thought

 

 

Bishop Id rather have algae to fight vs flatworms or string diatoms just my lesser of 3 evils

[Bishop]

Here's how I treat in a tank full of water. First I do a manual removal of the hair algae like melev describes. Next, I take an eyedropper full of H2O2 and apply it directly to the problem algae in the tank. This type of treatment works especially well on cyano and hair algae but unfortunately does nothing for the wiry 'turf' algae. I find it works best for problem spots on SPS because it's gentler than the direct application in the air (unless you're careful to make sure the H2O2 doesn't touch the SPS flesh). If you're going to drain your tank, I suggest you make sure that no H2O2 can touch any SPS exposed to air during treatment. In addition to the manual removal, I like to run a phosphate remover (esp. if I don't 'need' it) to be sure that the hair algae doesn't have the materials it needs to re-grow it's broken hairs.

 

-- My Opinion starts here --

There are lots of threads that talk about using H2O2 but I haven't read any that describe the why. My theory is that it causes an instantaneous ORP reduction in a small localized area. I think the ORP drop causes the algae to decompose slightly which makes it more palatable to my hermits, meaning they won't touch it before the H2O2 treatment but completely remove it in one night after application. Just my working theory...

 

I really like the way you make this sound as far as intank dosing. My problem was that is just didn't seem to effective. I was worried about getting to much in the tank at one time. I have no idea how often I can safely dose. Theoretically, I could read through the notoriously BIG thread but... WOW it's BIG!

 

It's hard to get an FTS of this tank. Never again will I get a bowfront. This image isn't that bad though. I just turned the lights back on for this shot so the coral aren't very perky.

 

For full view.

[Bishop]

Bishop Id rather have algae to fight vs flatworms or string diatoms just my lesser of 3 evils

 

The flatworms in my 20L were a nightmare. I actually thought I had lost the tank. I got home from work the next day and the clowns were lookin bad and the coral a little worse. I stopped everything else and mixed up 10g for a WC. That got things back on track.

No good can come of these. Algae I don't mind. Unfortunately, it wants to grow and suffocate my coral.

[brandon429]

Great pic

 

You have a nice tank its not bad at all, real nice corals and fish

 

it's cool you're willing to do this much work to save your tank

Most read about a drain and treat and gasp/refuse

 

But based on those pics:

 

Powerhead can be cleaned easy, with scalding hot water or peroxide outside the tank

 

your major target areas are on the upper surfaces, rock towards the top of the scape I can see why you went drain and treat

 

You can leave a quarter of the water still in the tank, room for the fish to swim

 

Use just enough straight 3% from a new bottle to wet some or all of the target

it doesn't have to soak, a small amount wicks into the threads of the algae via capillary action

it doesn't really bubble or give an indication when you first treat it

 

Let sit for just a minute or two, refill tank

depending on its sensitivity to emersion you might consider wetting the anemone while drain occurs

 

anemones have been mildly sensitive to peroxide in some of the early pages of the thread so I'm thinking of ways to lessen the stress considering the treatment you're about to run

 

some of that rock you could lift out don't short change us now on pure safety!

 

I say make no game plan for the lower areas right now

 

Gauge initial run, first wave

 

on the top part in a few days we will see a real effect

 

My minor concern is the anem not much else.

we didn't see any anemone loss in the proxide thread just some shriveling action that subsided

 

That was with strong full tank doses, yours is not.

[ignatz]

brandon429 - Thank you. Your "vase" style has been a huge inspiration for me ever since you posted examples on my reef club's site. Like you, I have a very hands on approach to tank maintenance. My post was not based on one to two experiences with problem algae, instead I've invited all my local reef club friends to bring me their problem corals to 'fix' and I've been experimenting with H2O2 and Iodine treatments for problem algae among other problems. Each coral type requires a slightly different approach. At this point, the only problem algae that I can't seem to beat is Bubble (both red and green) but I can keep it in check (which is good enough for me since manual removal is a free way to export phosphates).

 

Bishop - Thank you. In-tank treatment isn't as effective as treating out of tank. No two ways about it; BUT that's why H2O2 is an ideal treatment choice. Let's say you take a eye dropper full of H2O2 and squirt it into your tank. What happens? It breaks down into 2 molecules of H2O and 1 molecule of O2 (the bubbles). What's that mean? It means that you if you're dosing a 2-part (I do) then you can treat with H2O2 every single day (even multiple time per day) and you only need to make sure you're not topping off too much because the O2 bubbles out of solution but the H20 is basically top-off water. Effectively, you're only moving electrons around. In your situation, I would treat as often as possible until the problem was gone... also, now is the time to re-aquascape such that you can pull any rock out and treat it externally without disturbing your sandbed (Ie Don't stack the rock, peg them instead) Oh... and I hear you about the bowed front. I hate my BioCube for this reason

 

Img removed.

 

I have red flatworms in two different nanos and I LOVE them. In my BC29, I added Tanaka's Pygmy Wrasse. In my Zoa Garden, I added a Yellow Stripe Possum Wrasse. Both wrasses keep my flatworms in check and are tiny. I dip any frags I give out in a heavy Iodine solution to make sure the flatworms fall off before I transfer them even though I think it's silly.

[brandon429]

What a nice tank! The color pop is wow

 

I think peroxide will get bigger that's great you are working with it

You can understand that inclination to see imperfect rock and want to pour strong caustic on it

 

I think my club might laugh me out of town if I mention it

[Bishop]

Drained the tank to hit some of the major spots. The water is slowly pumping back in now. Some of my coral didn't like this to much. The duncan for instance didn't get a chance to close up before I left it high and dry with all the polyps hanging.

 

The way people talk about peroxide, I'm feeling it breaks down quickly and I should have no problem dosing daily. I spread 20 ml around on concentrated areas. If this goes well, which I expect it to, I can just do some in tank targeting each day.

 

Nothing really worth having pictures of here. It was just a quick drain and refill. It might have been 30 minutes of work.

[brandon429]

we on the peroxide committee need your updates!

[Bishop]

we on the peroxide committee need your updates!

 

 

Ahh man. After 20ml into the tank, I got rid of a good bit of the algae. It's kinds done a number on my coral even. My RBTA decided to move and has been looking kinda ill. What I got now is a little more of a problem. It's kinda soft and stingy. Air bubble stick to it. It's brown. I don't know if it's something similar to cyano, if it dead algae or it could be anything.

 

I went yesterday and got a little bit of clean-up crew. 4 black mollies, 10 red leg hermits, 5 cerith snails, and one emerald crab. I also picked up some Phosguard and Purigen. My RO/DI filter should be here the 24th. I'm gonna back off my tank for a couple weeks. I think I have put the tank through enough lately.

 

As for my mollies. Something strange happened. They were all doing their thing around the tank when i put them in. Did a few things around the house and came back to check on them. Three of them were hugging the top corner together. I havent seen the 4th one since i first put them in. I hope my anemone got it. It would be so cool to look up one day and see my clown dragging a molly into the anemone.

[C.I._Reefer]

Ahh man. After 20ml into the tank, I got rid of a good bit of the algae. It's kinds done a number on my coral even. My RBTA decided to move and has been looking kinda ill. What I got now is a little more of a problem. It's kinda soft and stingy. Air bubble stick to it. It's brown. I don't know if it's something similar to cyano, if it dead algae or it could be anything.

 

I went yesterday and got a little bit of clean-up crew. 4 black mollies, 10 red leg hermits, 5 cerith snails, and one emerald crab. I also picked up some Phosguard and Purigen. My RO/DI filter should be here the 24th. I'm gonna back off my tank for a couple weeks. I think I have put the tank through enough lately.

 

As for my mollies. Something strange happened. They were all doing their thing around the tank when i put them in. Did a few things around the house and came back to check on them. Three of them were hugging the top corner together. I havent seen the 4th one since i first put them in. I hope my anemone got it. It would be so cool to look up one day and see my clown dragging a molly into the anemone.

 

sounds like dinoflatulates(sp?)... most CUC wont even touch it.

 

How long did u acclimate the mollys? You should expect a 2 or 3 day slow acclimation if you dont want to suffer any casualties from SG increase... Also if you want them to eat algae make sure you dont feed em for a couple days. Also, I wouldnt keep all of them in long term, probably only one or 2. Mollys poop ALOT and with them and the clowns you are probably overstocked if it is the 20l we are talking about.

[brandon429]

Wow but the tank didn't look to be suffering all that bad above? I've never heard of cleaned spots having another invasion so close on the heels, on the same area after treatment?

How about this, can you post a macro/closeup shot of just one of your concerned areas even if you don't treat it

 

the committee is concerned a lil

[Bishop]

sounds like dinoflatulates(sp?)... most CUC wont even touch it.

 

How long did u acclimate the mollys? You should expect a 2 or 3 day slow acclimation if you dont want to suffer any casualties from SG increase... Also if you want them to eat algae make sure you dont feed em for a couple days. Also, I wouldnt keep all of them in long term, probably only one or 2. Mollys poop ALOT and with them and the clowns you are probably overstocked if it is the 20l we are talking about.

 

This is the 36gallon. The mollys were already marine and only $1.50 per. I got these in hopes that the clown will feed them to the anemone. eating algae signed the deal. My tank is a bit overstocked with two clowns, yellow head jawfish, sixline wrasse, starry blenny, and the inverts. I do plan on putting 2 of them in my 20L if they survive very long.

 

To a point, it kinda looks like dinoflatulates but the more i look at the picture, that looks like more of a slime and this crud in my tank is not slimey at all. Here is an older pick of it. It's clings to anything the way a spider web would, rocks, coral, whatever.

 

 

Wow but the tank didn't look to be suffering all that bad above? I've never heard of cleaned spots having another invasion so close on the heels, on the same area after treatment?

How about this, can you post a macro/closeup shot of just one of your concerned areas even if you don't treat it

 

the committee is concerned a lil

 

It's nothing to do with the algae. At first, I thought a lot of it was the algae. It easily brushes off. Then it is right back where it started.

At one point, I thought it was dead algae, which it looks very similar to. I don't think I had much live algae to have this much dead algae though. I've even considered this to be zooxanthellae that coral have expelled since the added LEDs. I wouldn't know what that looks like though.

[Bishop]

This tank is just an all around hard battle. Today, I notice I am down to one of the four mollys. I found two on the floor. How is anything suppose to eat these when they are on the floor?

 

More importantly, I also noticed that I wasn't seeing my starry blenny. This is/was the largest animal in my tank. I searched the tank and the floor and could find no sign of my Blenny. The only thing I can see doing my blenny in is the coral banded shrimp. Is it possible that my blenny couldn't fight off a shrimp?

 

Could ny Ocellaris Clown taken the blenny out? The blenny was a good bit bigger than the clown. I've never seen her be aggressive with the exception of reminding the shrimp who is boss. I think she would give her all at attacking the blenny if she thought it got to close to her anemone.

 

The problem with this is that I would think the flown would had fed the blenny to the anemone. The Anemone has been shriveling up as if ill since the peroxide. She is recovering as far as I can tell. I know there is no 4-5 inch blenny inside.

[franklypre]

Just out of curiousity, and not to rain on the peroxide parade, did you have purigen and phosguard in the tank before you peroxided it?

 

I would much rather deal with GHA than the dinos it seems we are both dealing with at the moment. My yellow tang and Flame Angel eat some of it but not near enough to help.

[Bishop]

Just out of curiousity, and not to rain on the peroxide parade, did you have purigen and phosguard in the tank before you peroxided it?

 

I would much rather deal with GHA than the dinos it seems we are both dealing with at the moment. My yellow tang and Flame Angel eat some of it but not near enough to help.

 

no. I just got the purigen and phosguard sunday.