A Little Taxonomy

[anemone fan]

Thought that, seeing how everyone calls almost all anthozoans "corals", I thought that I would show you that there is a difference. If you don't care, just ignore this post or read for fun. Not to mention I was a little bored for 15 minutes.

 

When you say corals, what do you mean? In the most accurate sense corals are only animals in the order Scleractinia, so when you call a zoanthid a coral you're committing taxonomic treason. This is the same thing as saying that tree shrews are primates. If you want to be taxonomically (yeah, I made up a word) correct, then the name "corals" should be reserved for only true LPS and SPS, the rest is something else. Another thing is cerianthids (tube anemones) are not true anemones (Actinarians) and comes down a specialized cnidocyte (cell which defines the whole phylum) called a ptychocyst used to build their tubes (the presence being a cerianthid, the absence not being one).

 

Some notes on what is going in this diagram:

-Blue: Phylum

-Red: Class

-Green: Subclass

-Purple: Order

-Orange: Common Name / Descriptive Name

 

Hope you enjoyed your marine bio lesson.

[jeremai]

Taxonomically, you are correct. But in the real world where all of us have to talk about reef tanks without making everyone's head spin, 'corals' refers to all anthozoans. There should be an orange box next to Anthozoa that says 'Corals'.

[anemone fan]

Taxonomically, you are correct. But in the real world where all of us have to talk about reef tanks without making everyone's head spin, 'corals' refers to all anthozoans. There should be an orange box next to Anthozoa that says 'Corals'.

 

Argh

[spanko]

[Deleted User 6]

haha jere.

 

nemfan, i appreciate the attempt.

[ColorMeBlue]

Nice writeup! Thanks for the clear graphics.

I'm in the 'learn all I can' mode before diving into SW tanks so every little bit helps me.

 

But I have to say, that grammatically, the misuse of 'your' (should be you're) is worse than making up a word.

[anemone fan]

Nice writeup! Thanks for the clear graphics.

I'm in the 'learn all I can' mode before diving into SW tanks so every little bit helps me.

 

But I have to say, that grammatically, the misuse of 'your' (should be you're) is worse than making up a word.

Fixed, fail.

[lakshwadeep]

Isn't this overlap the case with many common names, especially broad ones like "coral" or "cat" or "grass", etc.? As long as the actual taxonomic names are not confused, it's kind of onerous to say common name are commiting "taxonomic treason". For example, you mentioned "tree shrews", even though they are not the same as "true shrews" (family Soricidae). What is the difference between using the term "tree shrew" and "soft coral"?

[anemone fan]

A soft coral is a soft coral not a true coral, a tree shrew is a tree shrew not a true shrew. Soft corals being called corals aren't so bad and the same goes for tube anemones (Cerianthids) being called anemones, but zoanthids, shrooms, rics, gorgs, pens, etc are by no means corals. I've heard to many a LFS say "look at this coral tank right here" and really its a zoanthid/paly tank, I know it's being knit-picky and I know no one is going to change what they say, but anyone who is interested in how everything is related in the Cnidarian world can use this as a quick reference, or not. It just makes my ears bleed to hear these things when I work on Cnidarians as a researcher, they are so different.

 

Just going to throw it out there. Another pet peeve is when people say "baby fill in blank here". People have babies and if anyone has any other examples of young be called babies tell me so I can strengthen that arguement. Baby anemones, ARGH!

[lakshwadeep]

A soft coral is a soft coral not a true coral, a tree shrew is a tree shrew not a true shrew. Soft corals being called corals aren't so bad and the same goes for tube anemones (Cerianthids) being called anemones, but zoanthids, shrooms, rics, gorgs, pens, etc are by no means corals. I've heard to many a LFS say "look at this coral tank right here" and really its a zoanthid/paly tank, I know it's being knit-picky and I know no one is going to change what they say, but anyone who is interested in how everything is related in the Cnidarian world can use this as a quick reference, or not. It just makes my ears bleed to hear these things when I work on Cnidarians as a researcher, they are so different.

 

Just going to throw it out there. Another pet peeve is when people say "baby fill in blank here". People have babies and if anyone has any other examples of young be called babies tell me so I can strengthen that arguement. Baby anemones, ARGH!

 

I don't understand how "soft coral" (subclass Octocorallia) can be given a free pass when zoanthids (taken as the family Zoanthidae) are more closely related to stony corals (order Scleractinia) in the subclass Hexacorallia. Besides, "zoanthid" itself can be confusing since it can refer to the order Zoantharia/Zoanthidea or the family Zoanthidae. Notice, too, that the root "corallum" is used for all these subclasses (and the order corallimorpharia), even though the root originally came from Scleractinians.

 

My point is, and was meant to be, that using the word "coral" alone is so vague that it by itself can mean many types of cnidarians. You yourself had to add the adjective "true" and "soft" to distinguish between two different groups. It is interesting you mentioned "baby" since that too also can mean multiple things:

 

1. an infant or very young child.

2. a newborn or very young animal...

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/baby

[gerbilbox]

Great job, and I vote for this graphic to be pinned as an Important Post so it's easy to find and reference. The graphic just need two fixes, it's "Scyphozoa" and "Gorgonian."

 

I do have this warning about the common name "debate:" Please don't take common names too seriously. Scientist don't take common names seriously. In the scientific community (I was once a professional biologist), common names are used occasionally, but it's never taken seriously or meant with any kind of accuracy. We have little expectation that they are ever accurate. The precise meaning of a common name can be understood through context, or when a word like "true" is used to narrow down the meaning to something precise (ex. "true bugs" refers to Order Hemiptera in entomology, but "bugs" by itself may refer to way too many insects and non-insects). If context is not there or the common name can't be easily clarified, many biologists consider it a hopeless and messy cause to try to use common names. We don't get upset at people for using and "misusing" common names because we know that most people haven't taken a basic college-level biodiversity class, but we may get slightly annoyed when people expect us to know exactly what they are talking about.

 

Long story short, I believe that it's okay to use common names, but don't take them seriously and don't expect the best search results from Google. Try to be as consistent as you can, but it's not a sin. I try to use both side-by-side (one parenthesis). This way, the common name is there for people who haven't learned the taxonomic name, but the accurate taxonomic name is there to allow others to understand what I mean and they have a precise term to search for more information. My fingers don't get tired of typing both names.

 

I personally use the word "coral" to refer to all octocorallians and most of the hexacorallians (except any member that has "anemone" in its common name). Is it accurate? No, nor do I mean it to be, but I will clarify if it's important. When you say "coral," I only expect that it's a subset of anthozoa, and I will ask for clarification if it's necessary. I have seen "false corals" refer to hexacorallians that are neither stony nor anemone, but that's the kind of "modifier mess" that I want to avoid with common names.

[anemone fan]

Great job, and I vote for this graphic to be pinned as an Important Post so it's easy to find and reference. The graphic just need two fixes, it's "Scyphozoa" and "Gorgonian."

 

I do have this warning about the common name "debate:" Please don't take common names too seriously. Scientist don't take common names seriously. In the scientific community (I was once a professional biologist), common names are used occasionally, but it's never taken seriously or meant with any kind of accuracy. We have little expectation that they are ever accurate. The precise meaning of a common name can be understood through context, or when a word like "true" is used to narrow down the meaning to something precise (ex. "true bugs" refers to Order Hemiptera in entomology, but "bugs" by itself may refer to way too many insects and non-insects). If context is not there or the common name can't be easily clarified, many biologists consider it a hopeless and messy cause to try to use common names. We don't get upset at people for using and "misusing" common names because we know that most people haven't taken a basic college-level biodiversity class, but we may get slightly annoyed when people expect us to know exactly what they are talking about.

 

Long story short, I believe that it's okay to use common names, but don't take them seriously and don't expect the best search results from Google. Try to be as consistent as you can, but it's not a sin. I try to use both side-by-side (one parenthesis). This way, the common name is there for people who haven't learned the taxonomic name, but the accurate taxonomic name is there to allow others to understand what I mean and they have a precise term to search for more information. My fingers don't get tired of typing both names.

 

I personally use the word "coral" to refer to all octocorallians and most of the hexacorallians (except any member that has "anemone" in its common name). Is it accurate? No, nor do I mean it to be, but I will clarify if it's important. When you say "coral," I only expect that it's a subset of anthozoa, and I will ask for clarification if it's necessary. I have seen "false corals" refer to hexacorallians that are neither stony nor anemone, but that's the kind of "modifier mess" that I want to avoid with common names.

 

Fixed the typos, need to review what I post before posting. Well, IMO, the people in this forum are relatively smart when it comes to Anthozoan differences, to the species. I just don't know why a zoanthid should be called a coral. It's going to happen, I know, but I'm just trying to put out that there is a difference and that this is the difference.