Will live sand seed my dead rock?

[ddk997]

I have been trying so hard to locate an answer for this and have yet to figure out the problem.

 

I have 16lbs of "live"rock that are believe to be completely dead now and about 10 lbs of sand, which are also dead. They were submerged in the old tank water for about six to seven months with no light or any care.

 

They have been running in my tank now for about four days and perimeters are at zero.

 

Will adding live sand also seed my rock???

or

should I go out and purchase a small amount of cured rock at lfs? (I don't really want to do this option hence my tank already has a bunch of rocks; pic below)

 

[davenia7]

It won't seed your rock. Get some cured rubble, put it in for a few weeks, then you can do with it what you want. Also, you can put an uncooked shrimp in there, after the rubble, for a while to rot away and trigger an ammonia spike.

[mndfreeze]

I started my tank in a similar fashion. All my rock was completely dead/dry as was my sand.

 

I went to a LFS and talked them into selling me a few small pieces of rock from an established coral tank, used those to start the process. About a week later or so a fellow reeferI met gave me a few cups of his sand bed from his established big tank.

 

Between those 2 things my system is now seeded and running smooth. Cycle finished shortly there after and im about to add my first fish. It will take a while for you to see life on those dead rocks other then algae, just so you know.

[prtrini01]

You could also add something like biozyme to your tank to seed your live rock.

[lakshwadeep]

Yes, live sand can seed dry rock. However, that depends on whether you have suitable live sand. Bagged "live" sand has little life and likely an extremely low diversity of organisms (like worms) for your tank. Getting live sand from an established tank and/or a few pieces of live rock rubble are better options.

 

Also, do not use a dead shrimp or other piece of flesh which could decay and help unwanted/disease-carrying bacteria proliferate. If you want to introduce an ammonia source, pure ammonia is the best choice. This can be problematic as you don't know how much ammonia to add.

[monosyth]

+1 lakshwadeep

 

get a few pieces of rubbly rock for best life and critters. don't use shrimp.

[northstar1357]

Seed live rock? OF COURSE! I have a nanocube 12 and i have 11 pounds of dead rocks and 1 pound of live rock and 12 pounds of live sand. my tank is filled with life! but it took a long time tho. I didnt see coralline algae on my rocks until 6 months after. usually ppl see coraline aglae and pods within 4 weeks after cycle. just takes longer.

[seabass]

^ yep ^

 

Keep in mind that using mostly dead sand and rock will support only a very small bio-load to start. It will increase its capacity to be a bio-filter over time, but move ahead slower than you usually would.

 

I would get a small piece of good LR from your LFS (like a pound or two) to help with the biodiversity.

[ddk997]

Great, thanks everyone with the input.

 

Guess I will try and purchase about a lb or two of cured live rock and sand from my LFS.

 

When placing it in the tank, where is it best to place the live rock?

When getting live sand how should i proceed to place it in the tank? I want to maximize keeping all the critters, etc. without causing a huge spike in my water.

 

I know some people say not to throw the water including in the sand in the tank, but wouldn't this lose a lot of the beatifically small critters?

[bitts]

+1 lakshwadeep

 

get a few pieces of rubbly rock for best life and critters. don't use shrimp.

 

go to several of the lfs in your town, and ask for a scoop of sand from there fuge. most will give it to you for free and injoy showing of there setup. this will give you the most diversity posable, while allowing you the judge which shops to purchase from. do not introduce crabs they will eat the microfauna you are looking for. as soon as the tank has cycled return to the best stores, looking for cheto filled with bugs & rubble including bristel worms if posable. again a good shop will give you a few of the worms for free if your gong to become a steady customer.

 

 

rember to reseed the tank every once in a while.

[northstar1357]

Ask your LFS and see if they will sell you one lb of live rock from their display tank. I did that for the one lbs of live rock that i bought. Now that one lbs of live rock is the only rock in my tank that is completely covered with coralline. When i bought it there was no coralline at all. However my other pieces are slowly getting coralline aglae on it.

Even if it cost extra. i would pay for a rock in display tank. who knows that can grow out of that rock

 

Also LFS should carry a varity of rocks.

[seabass]

When placing it in the tank, where is it best to place the live rock?

Wherever it fits/looks best. The fauna will move to where they can hide and find food (eventually spreading throughout the tank).

 

When getting live sand how should i proceed to place it in the tank?

I'd spread it over the top.

 

I know some people say not to throw the water including in the sand in the tank, but wouldn't this lose a lot of the beatifically small critters?

I hear that with new fish and other livestock (ammonia is released during transportation which can foul that water, plus I heard that it's to help limit transmission of disease/parasites). IMO, including the water that came with the sand/rock shouldn't really hurt anything.

[Marteen]

If you just add live sand it will seed your dead rock with bacteria overtime. As for coralline and hitchhikers you won't be seeing any of that until you start adding corals.

[Mudfish]

Live sand will most definitely seed dead rock.

 

Actually, time, and an open top, will seed dead rock and dead sand. The necessary bacteria populations are all around us - it's only a matter of time.

[ddk997]

Live sand will most definitely seed dead rock.

 

Actually, time, and an open top, will seed dead rock and dead sand. The necessary bacteria populations are all around us - it's only a matter of time.

 

Can you really do this? Would it really work?

 

What would happen if I decided to not add live rock or live sand and just started adding clean up crew, what's the worst or what would happen?

[seabass]

What would happen if I decided to not add live rock or live sand and just started adding clean up crew

First, I would let it run for a couple of weeks. Then you would need to proceed extremely slowly, because it wouldn't be able to support much of a bio-load (because the bacteria population would be so small). Eventually the bacteria population would be enough to support a normal bio-load.

 

It's normally not recommended, but for this situation, you'd probably be better off adding a bacteria culture, or even building up the bacteria population by adding ammonium hydroxide (and waiting for the ammonia level to return to zero) before adding any livestock.

[Billdemart]

Yes, live sand can seed dry rock. However, that depends on whether you have suitable live sand. Bagged "live" sand has little life and likely an extremely low diversity of organisms (like worms) for your tank. Getting live sand from an established tank and/or a few pieces of live rock rubble are better options.

 

Also, do not use a dead shrimp or other piece of flesh which could decay and help unwanted/disease-carrying bacteria proliferate. If you want to introduce an ammonia source, pure ammonia is the best choice. This can be problematic as you don't know how much ammonia to add.

 

Glad you posted this. I haven't noticed much live anything from the CaribSea sand I put in my tank.

[Mudfish]

The bacteria for the nitrogen cycle are actually easily available, and probably more quickly than we would think. As seabass says, one would need to proceed slowly, adding a varmint at a time perhaps, and testing as one went. But once the first resident stated pooping in the tank, things would begin moving along at an acceptable rate, I would warrent.

 

What would be missing, of course, is diversity. All the other animals, plants, fungi, protists and god knows what else that is living in and on good live rock - that's what makes a box of ocean into a living reef!

[violinist]

Can you really do this? Would it really work?

 

I've done this on freshwater and you are talking months, 2-4 months, of waiting for the bacteria populations to reach a level to support even the smallest bioload. Life is too short.

 

Go spend 5 bucks on a piece of LR and get down to business.

[organism]

What would happen if I decided to not add live rock or live sand and just started adding clean up crew, what's the worst or what would happen?

 

Well, you'd have a dead clean-up crew and stinky water.

 

There's very little bacteria that floats in the water column compared to on live rock or sand.

[ddk997]

Great stuff everyone, This forum should get paid for teaching quality information.

 

I've also wanted to ask nitrogen cycle, is this when you see clear air bubbles attached to the rocks and sand? (I've seen plenty of them when I threw my rock in the tank, now they're all gone, see none)

 

My question has been solved and I will go out and purchase a small amount of live rock considering their only 2-5$ a lb right? Hopefully my LFS will be kind enough to give me a scoop of live sand from their established aquarium.

 

---

 

Can anybody tell me what these purple things are on my rock?

Some seem to be fading while some are fairly vivid purple.

 

 

Thanks everyone

 

Amazing how different the rock looks now...completely dead.

 

Here is a picture from when I first got my live rocks from Premium Aquatics. (8lb kaelini, 8 lb Timora)

 

TO NOW:

 

[prtrini01]

Great stuff everyone, This forum should get paid for teaching quality information.

 

I've also wanted to ask nitrogen cycle, is this when you see clear air bubbles attached to the rocks and sand? (I've seen plenty of them when I threw my rock in the tank, now they're all gone, see none)

 

My question has been solved and I will go out and purchase a small amount of live rock considering their only 2-5$ a lb right? Hopefully my LFS will be kind enough to give me a scoop of live sand from their established aquarium.

 

---

 

Can anybody tell me what these purple things are on my rock?

Some seem to be fading while some are fairly vivid purple.

 

 

Thanks everyone

 

Amazing how different the rock looks now...completely dead.

 

Here is a picture from when I first got my live rocks from Premium Aquatics. (8lb kaelini, 8 lb Timora)

 

TO NOW:

 

 

Looks like patches of encrusting coralline algae to me. I'm in the same situation as you. I just bought 1-2lbs of Fiji rock to seed my existing dead rock.

[ddk997]

Looks like patches of encrusting coralline algae to me. I'm in the same situation as you. I just bought 1-2lbs of Fiji rock to seed my existing dead rock.

 

Does this mean there's actually still some living bacteria on my rocks?

[seabass]

Here is a picture from when I first got my live rocks from Premium Aquatics. (8lb kaelini, 8 lb Timora)

Amazing how different the rock looks now...completely dead.

Does this mean there's actually still some living bacteria on my rocks?

If there is saltwater in your tank, there is living bacteria on the rocks (probably lots of other stuff you can't see just yet too).

 

Bacteria populations will vary based on the available food (the bio-load you keep in the tank). As you add livestock, the bacteria population will slowly increase to handle the additional load (up to a point). The byproduct of the nitrifying bacteria is ultimately nitrate. Live rock also supports some denitrifying bacteria which converts nitrate to nitrogen gas (the rest of the nitrate is removed via water changes).

[ddk997]

Great stuff seabass. Yes these rocks were always submerged in saltwater however most likely with a lot of tempeture changes.

 

I ran into a bunch of bacterial addictives at drfosterandsmith would these actually work?

 

Ex. www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3975+19608&pcatid=19608

 

Also starting to see small amounts of brown diatom is this even possible with dead rocks? This was the time I satrted adding. CUC last year