Flatworm Eating Nudibranchs

[saralear]

Hi NRers,

 

I'm looking for all the advice and suggestions that I can get. I'm in a bit of a predicament. I'm adopting from a friend her FOWLR tank. I've been taking care of her tank on and off for years while away on vacation, and I have been reading up here on NR since January of this year with plans to get my own tank (so this timing was perfect). I'm not too worried about my ability to take care of the tank once it's here, (since there are such great people around here for advice if I were to stumble on the way) but I have a few initial concerns.

 

First of all this tank is fully established and has been operating for 3-4 years. It has about 150lbs of live rock, the following live stock:1 blue tang. 2 clown fish and 2 damsels. crab, 2 sea urchins and a sea cucumber, and crushed coral .

 

It has the following equipment:

Eheim 2028 filter

inline heater from ehiem

coral life super skimmer (yes i know people love to hate these!)

powerhead pump

2 maxi jet pumps

eheim pump

 

then the beauty:

the light is 760 watts total with 12 leds for moonlight simulation, 2 metal halide bulbs i believe they are 15k and 4 actinic bulbs. built in fan. 2 ballasts and 6 different switches to change light settings to how you want it

 

It will be sitting on a black pine stand.

 

Anyways my first concern is the crushed coral bed. Since I definitely want to change that to sand as soon as possible, do you think it would be better to change it during the move, or leave the crushed coral alone (for fear of causing the tank to crash if it were to stir up) and wait a few weeks until things have adjusted before changing it out one cup at a time? (Yes I know a tedious process but would be worth it to do the right thing).

 

Then my other concern. Transporting the live rock I will do easily by keeping the existing established tank water (about 50-70 gallons I'm hoping to move with me) and putting the LR into big tupperware bins. My big concern is how to transport the fish for the HOUR car ride ( do they need an air stone or anything) and when you suggest what I would transport them in please keep in mind that once I get home it will take another hour to move their tank in and fill with LR and water.

 

Also if someone can give me a step by step for the moving process that would be great too (ie first pack all equipment, then drain water, then remove rock, then try and catch fish etc).

 

I know I'm forgetting information you'll probably need to answer this equation so please ask lots of questions and I'm hoping this will be a success with all the advice available.

 

(Also keep in mind I have a week to plan this thing as I'm not picking up the tank until next Saturday)

 

Thanks and I'm psyched to see what's said

Sara

P.S. Even more psyched to start posting photos and creating a tank thread as so many others have done!

P.P.S. I will have more questions, no doubt.

[seabass]

...if someone can give me a step by step for the moving process that would be great...

Here is a thread on my latest move. Maybe it will give you a few ideas.

 

...my first concern is the crushed coral bed. Since I definitely want to change that to sand as soon as possible

Definitely change it during the move. Use a cup or two of the crushed coral to seed the new bed.

 

My big concern is how to transport the fish for the HOUR car ride ( do they need an air stone or anything) and when you suggest what I would transport them in please keep in mind that once I get home it will take another hour to move their tank in and fill with LR and water.

5 gallon buckets work well (no air stone required).

[SpankythePyro]

I have moved my Biocube 3 times already an I pretty much have a set way of doing it that works great.

 

1.) At the new location have a batch of fresh saltwater ready & up to spec enough for 50% of tank volume

2.) Remove all corals and place them in baggies

3.) Remove all rock and put them in tubs, keep the rock submersed in old tank water

4.) Remove livestock, it can either be bagged or put in plastic containers... I prefer containers because right now I only have 3 fish.

5.) From here drain the rest of the water to where you know you have half the tank volume between the rock bins & the stuff you are currently collecting

6.) Move the tank/stand to the new location - do not disturb the sandbed

 

Once you get to the new location & after you set the tank/stand up.

 

7.) You can aquascape now... or pour the drained water in and then aquascape.

8.) Pour the 50% water change you had waiting into the new tank

9.) Turn the tank on - let the filters/rock clean the water.

10.) Acclimate fish/add fish

11.) Acclimate corals/add corals

 

NOTE: In your case of wanted to replace the sand bed what I would do is sift through the sandbed to remove all the bristleworms/snails you want to keep and then later toss them into the aquarium bare bottomed.

 

Week by week add some sand that you have been cycling in another tank, or that is just dry.

 

There ya go, hope I made things easy.... all you have to do now is the heavy lifting lol

[seabass]

I'm looking for all the advice and suggestions that I can get...It has the following equipment:

Eheim 2028 filter

inline heater from ehiem

coral life super skimmer (yes i know people love to hate these!)

powerhead pump

2 maxi jet pumps

eheim pump

...2 metal halide bulbs i believe they are 15k and 4 actinic bulbs...

Hi Sara, will this become a reef tank, or are you keeping it a FOWLR?

 

If the skimmer works, then it will be fine, but for a reef:

• Refer to these threads about using canister filters.

• Total flow in the display should be around 2500gph.

• You will have to verify that your livestock is reef compatible (I'm thinking about the urchins here).

 

P.S. Even more psyched to start posting photos and creating a tank thread as so many others have done!

It sounds like you're going to have a lot of fun with this.

[saralear]

Hi SeaBass,

 

Thanks so much for the suggestions so far, and I'm glad you've asked more questions (as I knew there'd be things I'd forgotten).

 

You're absolutely right I do want to set it up as a reef tank (with the gorgeous light fixture it comes with how could I not?! lol) and I am hoping to trade in the sea urchins to my local LFS for credit towards other live stock/coral purchases.

 

I wasn't sure about the canister filter in all honesty because I would rather spend the extra money and get extra live rock and live sand for the filtration, or is it necessary for me to have the flow? I do have 4-5 powerheads and can purchase additional ones if that would help to compensate. The reason why I was going to leave the tank "as is" for the first few weeks is because I'm terrified of 'disturbing the peace' lol. I don't want to cause any system crashes or substantial changes to their(the livestock) environment. (I have been looking for tanks for the last few months but never intended to purchase one that had live stock, so its really throwing me for a loop).

 

Another question for you, I have a styraphome insulted container to transport the fish/fish containers in, does each fish need a separate bag/container, or for example can the two clown fish go together (clearly the tang will be kept by itself hahaha don't worry).

 

Thanks for everything (yet again!)

[SpankythePyro]

2 clowns can go together just give them a bit more room/water

[seabass]

You're absolutely right I do want to set it up as a reef tank

Sweet.

 

I wasn't sure about the canister filter...

Like the threads in the search that I provided say, you can use it if you wish (following the suggestions about media and cleaning). However, canister filters are not normally included in reef equipment lists.

 

I would rather spend the extra money and get extra live rock and live sand for the filtration...

You will have to cycle new live rock first (in a separate container). Don't introduce any into any established system (or while moving an established system).

 

However, you will be replacing your entire sand bed. Which should be alright. Use the bagged live sand as it doesn't require rinsing and the bacteria will become fully established sooner.

 

...or is it necessary for me to have the flow?

Flow is necessary, but not from any specific source; you should have about 2500gph total. Powerheads with more dispersed flow are preferred.

 

...I was going to leave the tank "as is" for the first few weeks is because I'm terrified of 'disturbing the peace' lol. I don't want to cause any system crashes or substantial changes to their(the livestock) environment.

Don't worry about changing equipment, it should actually help. Just don't add any new live rock (LR).

 

...can the two clown fish go together (clearly the tang will be kept by itself hahaha don't worry).

Sure, as long as they get along (you can tell if they hang out together). For example, I moved my clownfish and gobies in the same bucket.

 

It's not as overwhelming as you might think. Good luck.

[AZDesertRat]

I would not waste money on bagged live sand. Use dry sand and seed it with a few cups of your established crushed coral or better yet bum a few cups of real live sand from friends or a local reef club.

 

I am a big fan of deep sand beds so I choose to not rinse my sand as the fines are an important part of of a fully functioning deep sand bed. You will end up with a milkshake for a few days but the benefits far outweigh the few days of cloudiness.

 

If you are wanting to make this system a reef you may want to invest in a sump, overflow and return pump. You might not be able to do it at the moment so make sure when you set the tank up at you place, you leave enough room between the tank and wall for a hang on overflow box. Don't scoot up up against the wall or a box will not fit. All good things take time so don't get in a hurry, get the system set up and operating pretty much as it is today, minus the crushed coral, and continue to research and study the various overflows and sump configurations.

 

When moving a tank I try to have a smaller quarantine or hospital tank already set up to transfer the fish and livestock into while I take my time setting up the main system that way there is no hurry on getting things going. The rock can stay in the tubs for weeks if need be as long as you stick a powerhead and maybe a heater in each one. I recently stored my whole 160 lbs of live rock in Rubbermaid totes while I rebuilt my entire 100G system over a 6 week period. The fish and corals lived in 20G QT tanks.

[fewskillz]

I just moved all of my tanks 3 weeks ago. I think I've moved a total of 18 tanks now.

 

Okay, first off, it's going to take longer than that "another hour" you mentioned to move the tank in and set it up. So don't make plans immediately after your tank move.

 

About transporting the fish; I use a cooler, and put them all together. The insulation of the cooler keeps the temp pretty stable. I've actually added a powerhead and a heater to the cooler and let them chill for a few days before.

 

Drain half the water (or any significant amount, maybe the 50-70 you plan to take with you, I'd take more if you can). Then move all of the LR into some of that water. (side note: I don't bag up my corals and stuff either, I just keep them separate from LR w/o corals and take special care to not damage the livestock) After the LR is removed, catch the fish and all of the snails/crabs/worms/etc you can. After that, throw away the water you don't want and the crushed coral you don't want. (I vote dry sand also, just mix in 5 pounds or so of the old CC).

 

To set it back up, work backwards, minus the fish. Save them for last. I fill the tank as I'm aquascaping, doing my best to keep all LR wet. If the sand doesn't settle quickly maybe do the powerhead/heater in the cooler and let the fish chill for a day or so. If you do this, be sure to match the temperatures of the tank water to the cooler water as best you can. The more you can reduce the shock on your fish, the better.

 

If I'm planning on doing any change to a tank during a move, I try to do it all at once. The fish are going to be stressed regardless of whether you set it up exactly the same or not, so my thoughts have always been lets get all of the stress out of the way now. No sense in letting them get settled and then 2 weeks later stress them out again with your changes. Just do it now.

 

PM me if you have any specific questions, but I'll try to remember to check back on this thread, I'll be glad to offer my advice on anything.

 

-Chris

 

P.S. - my sister is a no H Sara also. I don't see it spelled that way very often.

[saralear]

2 clowns can go together just give them a bit more room/water

 

Pyro, can the two damsels also go together?

[bbales]

I just moved my RSM 34g and 12g 20 mins down the road no casulties

 

i used plastic tubs for the non stinging corals, bagged the stingers, coolers for the fish and shrimps (which went all together), kept the sand in the aquarium with just enough water to cover it, and used whatever buckets i could find to transport all the water and live rock, (for some of the live rock i just put wet paper towels over them to keep them moist, and didnt have too much die off of the coralline still

 

for a long trip you might go into the fish cooler/container and just airate the water by cupping some and letting it fall back into the water

 

it was a pain, but just think you get to rescape how you always wanted to, and in my case i finally glued things down, anyways good luck and hope it goes swimmingly!

[saralear]

I would not waste money on bagged live sand. Use dry sand and seed it with a few cups of your established crushed coral or better yet bum a few cups of real live sand from friends or a local reef club.

AZ: Unfortunately the local reef club is quite far from my house and consequently not so local (over an hour drive). I love the idea and maybe when I get my own car will explore this option, but for now it's only a dream. Are you sure it would be ok to use a few cups of the crushed coral? I am just so concerned about the size and sharpness of it I don't want to hurt my future gobies blennies snails and things that I plan on getting.

 

If you are wanting to make this system a reef you may want to invest in a sump, overflow and return pump.

I very much appreciate the advice about tank placement but I know I won't be able to have a sump. The extra weight that it would add to the area where the system is set up would tip the scales on the floor supports I think.

When moving a tank I try to have a smaller quarantine or hospital tank already set up to transfer the fish and livestock into while I take my time setting up the main system that way there is no hurry on getting things going.

I love this idea. Infact I have a spare 25 gallon (24*24*12) that I could set up this weekend in preparation for next week. However, wouldn't that tank need to cycle and I worry that it might be too small for all the live stock to live in for 4-5 hours (if I were to really take my time instead of rushing). And if I were to set up such a tank would I just have an air pump, heater and pre mixed saltwater in it?

[fewskillz]

I love this idea. Infact I have a spare 25 gallon (24*24*12) that I could set up this weekend in preparation for next week. However, wouldn't that tank need to cycle and I worry that it might be too small for all the live stock to live in for 4-5 hours (if I were to really take my time instead of rushing). And if I were to set up such a tank would I just have an air pump, heater and pre mixed saltwater in it?

 

Just use the water that you're bringing them in. You're basically doing the same thing I said to do with the cooler, except with a tank.

[AZDesertRat]

A small amount of crushed coral in the sand bed won't make much of a difference as far as inhabitants. Eventually it will work its way to the surface of the sand bed and could be scooped out with a net during tank maintenance. Over time you will end up with larger particles anyway just from live rock breaking down and erosion. No big deal. I'll bet if you quizzed people in your area someone keeps a saltwater system and would gladly donate a cup or two of live sand from their tanks, the more cups you get from different systems the more diversity of critters you will have.

 

You will want to keep it away from the wall ragardless as things like hang on back protein skimmers will also take room. It also helps with air circulation and cooling too.

 

The inhabitants will do just fine in a smaller tank for weeks even. Look at the fish at the LFS, they live in a 20 or 30 or sometimes smaller for months. What I try to do is keep a new foam or sponge filter insert for my AquaClear hang on filter soaking in my sump or out of the way in another canister or hang on filter at all times so it is charged with beneficial bacteria and can be used in a quarantine tank at basically a moments notice. I can set a QT system up in about 30 minutes if need be that way. In your case, I would set the 25 up with new saltwater, a HOB filter or airlift sponge filter and heater and get it circulating. Once you arrive at home with the new tank, remove the sponge filter or bio rings or whatever media from the canister and stick it in the 25 somewhere so you get a transfer of bacteria to get the cycle going quickly. Another option would be to install the canister on the 25 if its not been out of service too long or is too dirty. Just saving old tank wate ris not usualy sufficient as bacteria does not float around in the water, it colonizes live rock, filter sponges and sand.

 

I like the AquaClear hang on filters since the replacement sponges are cheap and easy to replace. I never reuse a filter sponge once it has been used in a hospital or quarantine tank since it may have diseases or viruses that could be passed on, for $1 I just throw it away and replace it with a new one. You might keep this in mind for future fish purchases, once you are set up and established you will probably want to add your own choice of fish down the road. Always quarantine them in the 25 before addinge them to your display tank so keep a filter sponge somewhere ready to go. If you have an extra hang on you could leave it running on the back of the display and transfer it to the QT tank whne you need it since you will not have a sump.

[saralear]

Just use the water that you're bringing them in. You're basically doing the same thing I said to do with the cooler, except with a tank.

 

Sorry Chris I think I misunderstood your earlier post, and for some irrational reason (no sarcasm meant) I'd just feel like the fish were safer in a tank, rather than a cooler. I also don't have a cooler that's clean enough to put the water and fish into directly, whereas I do have a tank up and running.

 

In terms of your earlier post regarding the step by step break down, that's super helpful. It's just hard for me to imagine this move will go so smoothly as everyone here seems to predict, these lil fishes are so super delicate I feel horrible doing this to them.

[saralear]

for a long trip you might go into the fish cooler/container and just airate the water by cupping some and letting it fall back into the water

 

Thanks for the idea!

[fewskillz]

these lil fishes are so super delicate I feel horrible doing this to them.

 

They're not nearly as delicate as you think. Just work diligently, don't rush, and everything will be fine. I really wasn't exaggerating when I said I've moved 18 tanks, and I've never lost a single inhabitant to a move, except for maybe a snail or something that got left dry in the sand for too long.. I've never moved one farther than 30 minutes, but an extra 30 minutes of drive time is just a little more time for the fish to calm down in their transport container. It might not be a bad thing.

[SpankythePyro]

damsels should go in a sep baggy... if they are put in the same one will tear the other apart.

 

Just go through the steps as I've said and you'll be fine... a tank that big will take prob half a day to move and set up atleast

[saralear]

Don't worry about changing equipment, it should actually help. Just don't add any new live rock (LR).

 

I know I will definitely want to add more LR to the system, (probably close to double what is in there now) why do I have to cycle the LR before putting it into my tank if I were to add it 10 lbs at a time would that make a difference? I have no intention of adding more LR for at least 2-3 weeks don't worry. I don't rush anything. lol

 

Thanks

Sara

[saralear]

Thanks again SeaBass, I have a 15 gallon tank that's not in use here that I guess I will use to 'extra' cure the LR I'm getting. Do you think 2-3 weeks is a reasonable time for me the budget for the cycle for it?

 

Also, how soon can I add a clean up crew? Right now there are no snails and only one crab. I was thinking for a tank of my size it should be able to support 60-100 snails and 15-20 crabs.

 

I also don't want the crew to starve since I will probably scrape any algae that might be in there when I move it.

[seabass]

Thanks again SeaBass

You're welcome.

 

Also, how soon can I add a clean up crew?

Since you will be moving an established tank, you can add to the cleanup crew as soon as you feel that everything has stabilized from the move.

 

Right now there are no snails and only one crab. I was thinking for a tank of my size it should be able to support 60-100 snails and 15-20 crabs.

I feel that's too much. I'd recommend starting with 4 to 6 Nassarius snails, 4 to 6 Cerith snails, and 4 to 6 Trochus (and/or Astraea) snails (you can add more as time goes on). Crabs are fun to watch, but they can be detrimental to the infauna, so I wouldn't get very many (just a couple will add some interest to your tank).

 

I also don't want the crew to starve since I will probably scrape any algae that might be in there when I move it.

Just keep the clean up crew small for now, and add to it as you need.

[saralear]

When re-aquascaping the newly moved tank, should I 'glue' the rock work together? Or if its placed solidly will it be ok? If I glue it together should I use Mr. Sticky's Underwater Glue?

[seabass]

When re-aquascaping the newly moved tank, should I 'glue' the rock work together? Or if its placed solidly will it be ok? If I glue it together should I use Mr. Sticky's Underwater Glue?

If you are like most of us, you will fiddle with it for awhile and still not be completely satisfied, so you will redo it again later. Also, you mentioned that you will be adding more rock. I wouldn't attempt to glue it, just make sure that it won't topple over.

Note, you should place the rock on the bottom glass (this will help prevent it from toppling over should the sand shift). You can add a shallow sand bed (less than an inch) around your aquascape.

[saralear]

So how soon could I start dosing purple up? The tank doesn't have much coraline right now and that's something I'd like to fix.

 

Also feeding every other day is ok? Or would that make too much of a bio load upheavel for the 'new' tank?

[seabass]

I wouldn't plan on dosing anything for now. If you maintain your water changes, your water parameters should stay fine and Coralline algae should start to spread.

If you do start to dose, you will need to test for calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium.

 

With all of your livestock I would feed a little everyday. Just don't overfeed.