Brown Algae ID Please

[zook]

Sorry for starting another thread on brown algae, but I really want to confirm the ID.

 

I have an AP12 that have been running for about 3 months. The tank has a 70w Sunpod with MJ900 return and two K-Nanos for flow. Livestock include mostly LPS and zoos with small perc clown, royal gramma, and sailfin blenny (see FTS).

 

The algae started appearing about three weeks ago; it's brown and forms long strings on corals, rocks, and substrate (see pictures). I'm seeing some trapped bubbles, but not in a snot-like manner or quantity that I'm seeing in pictures of dino blooms (picture). For the past two weekends, the tank were in complete darkness to kill the algae off; this seem to help. I reduced my photo period from 12 to 10 hours.

 

The changes that might have caused this appearance are death of a 4" maxima (9/11) and change in water usage (9/12). My log seem to indicate that the algae appeared on the day the clam died. I went from RO drinking water to Vertmont Pure Natural Spring Water (free at work, I'm getting a breakdown of their water tests in the mail soon). We don't need to go into details how stupid these moves were.

 

Do we think it's dinos? I have some precious livestock that I don't want harmed. If it is dinos: 4-6 days of total darkness, raise pH to 8.4+, double carbon usage, skim? Thank you everyone for reading and helping out.

 

Pictures taken this morning.

[zook]

These definitely are not the zooxanthellae that corals overproduce and spit out. . .

[Sergeant-G]

I have the same thing going on in my tank right now but I am still in my cycle and it is much more prevalent all over the rocks and sand, sorry I cant help more.

 

Casey

[zook]

I had a diatom bloom during my cycle, but they were just a thin layer of powder brown on the rocks and substrate. These form long strings rather quickly )=

[Stephen-in-Va]

Are the stings "snottish" and gather bubbles?

[zook]

Are the stings "snottish" and gather bubbles?

 

Not "snottish" at all, on the corals/rocks, they just form long strings until they gets too long and get caught in the flow. On the substrate, they're there's more mass (see pictures). I've seen bubbles, but not to a very large degree. With my reduced light period (8 hours), I see very little, if much at all in the morning, but they seem to grow quite rapidly throughout the day. I'll post more pictures as soon as I can. Any ideas? Maybe too much bioload and I need to skim?

[Stephen-in-Va]

If it's dino I don't think anyone is positive what actually keeps it going. I'd imagine it's a mix of nutrients and lighting. But I've also read posts saying that they bloom in nutrient poor tanks. No light for a few days also seems to make them vanish. If you blow them off the rocks do they come back quickly? How old is the tank?

[zook]

If it's dino I don't think anyone is positive what actually keeps it going. I'd imagine it's a mix of nutrients and lighting. But I've also read posts saying that they bloom in nutrient poor tanks. No light for a few days also seems to make them vanish. If you blow them off the rocks do they come back quickly? How old is the tank?

 

 

No light for a few days definitely help, but they come back. Then again, I've only done 2 days of darkness rather than 4 or 5, I don't think my corals will be happy about that. They do blow off easily and do come back rather quickly. The tank is 3 months old. I would like to increase lighting back to 12hrs/day when I can. Maybe it's a nutrient/water issue and I need to skim. The tank is hooked up to a relatively young fuge (10gal, DSB, chaeto, 16lb LR) that might just need time to age and to better export the access nutrients. The algae appeared before the fuge was hooked up to the tank.

 

I guess one thing I'm glad about is that they seem to be under control. No massive full tank bloom |=

[Stephen-in-Va]

Try to keep the nutrients down if they aren't out of control. This could possibly eliminate them. I have a way to get rid of them that I've used in the past but it requires a skimmer, dosing sugar, and lights out.

[zook]

Thanks Stephen for all your comments. For now, I'm going to keep the light low (possibly do a 4-days blackout), double carbon, up pH, and invest on a skimmer. Let's see how things go.

 

Do tell me about dosing sugar though. Is it to encourage uptake of nutrients from other organisms and out-compete the dinos?

 

 

 

Try to keep the nutrients down if they aren't out of control. This could possibly eliminate them. I have a way to get rid of them that I've used in the past but it requires a skimmer, dosing sugar, and lights out.

[Stephen-in-Va]

Do tell me about dosing sugar though. Is it to encourage uptake of nutrients from other organisms and out-compete the dinos?

 

That was my principle behind it. I tried the lights out method along with various other methods and they always came back by the end of the day when I returned to full lighting. So over my trial and error attempts I noticed things that made them decrease or grow and ended up with a solution that worked. It's not an over night effort or cure though. The method takes about 3 weeks to rid the tank of them and 2 weeks of a follow up of sorts. The 2 times I've used it they have never returned.

[zook]

That was my principle behind it. I tried the lights out method along with various other methods and they always came back by the end of the day when I returned to full lighting. So over my trial and error attempts I noticed things that made them decrease or grow and ended up with a solution that worked. It's not an over night effort or cure though. The method takes about 3 weeks to rid the tank of them and 2 weeks of a follow up of sorts. The 2 times I've used it they have never returned.

 

Can you tell me what you did, Stephen? (=

[Stephen-in-Va]

Of course... The amount of sugar I can't recommend however. Just what I personal used. The last time I had dino it was in a 55 gallon tank with sps (digis only), lps, and softies. No sump and after displacement of sand and rock it was actually about 40-42 gallons of water. When I was lazy I used 2 part and RO/DI for top off instead of the lime water like normal. You should probably read the few threads here and on RC about sugar dosing before starting this method to feel comfortable with dosing it and before making your choice on amounts to dose. I didn't have the luxury of those threads when I dealt with it but trusted the person that turned me on to the sugar dosing method to lower nutrients. Seems he knew what he was talking about

 

Also all of my tanks are on a 12 hour lighting cycle. 12 hours of actinics and 10 hours of "daylight" bulbs. Usually actinics on at 10 a.m. - "daylight" bulbs on at 11 a.m. - "daylight" bulbs off at 9 p.m. - actinics off at 10 p.m. I'm not sure the schedule matter however just giving an example of my lighting. If your "daylight" bulbs aren't on for 10 hours replace my 5 hours with whatever equals half of your bulbs daily burn time.

 

 

Make sure you blow off the dino you have in your tank a few times or more daily. That's something I did that I didn't include in the method.

 

Week 1

 

Day 1

1/8 tsp sugar

lights out

1 g RO/DI top off with 1 tsp kalk and enough RO/DI water to replace evaporation or RO/DI water with appropriate 2 part.

 

Day 2

1/8 tsp sugar

lights out

1 g RO/DI top off with 1 tsp kalk and enough RO/DI water to replace evaporation or RO/DI water with appropriate 2 part.

 

Day 3

1/8 tsp sugar

lights out

1 g RO/DI top off with 1 tsp kalk and enough RO/DI water to replace evaporation or RO/DI water with appropriate 2 part.

 

Day 4

1/8 tsp sugar

4 hours of actinics

1 g RO/DI top off with 1 tsp kalk and enough RO/DI water to replace evaporation or RO/DI water with appropriate 2 part.

 

Day 5

1/8 tsp sugar

actinics only

1 g RO/DI top off with 1 tsp kalk and enough RO/DI water to replace evaporation or RO/DI water with appropriate 2 part.

 

Day 6

1/8 tsp sugar

actinics normal and 5 hours of "daylight" bulbs

1 g RO/DI top off with 1 tsp kalk and enough RO/DI water to replace evaporation or RO/DI water with appropriate 2 part.

 

Day 7

normal lighting

25% water change

1/8 tsp sugar added after water change.

 

You'll notice the dinos are gone or severely diminished after the lights out period. I've always had them come back however and continued with the method even if I didn't notice any at first.

 

Week 2

 

Day 1

1/4 tsp sugar

normal lighting

1 g RO/DI top off with 1 tsp kalk and enough RO/DI water to replace evaporation or RO/DI water with appropriate 2 part.

 

Day 2

1/4 tsp sugar

normal lighting

1 g RO/DI top off with 1 tsp kalk and enough RO/DI water to replace evaporation or RO/DI water with appropriate 2 part.

 

Day 3

1/4 tsp sugar

normal lighting

1 g RO/DI top off with 1 tsp kalk and enough RO/DI water to replace evaporation or RO/DI water with appropriate 2 part.

 

Day 4

1/4 tsp sugar

normal lighting

1 g RO/DI top off with 1 tsp kalk and enough RO/DI water to replace evaporation or RO/DI water with appropriate 2 part.

 

Day 5

1/4 tsp sugar

normal lighting

1 g RO/DI top off with 1 tsp kalk and enough RO/DI water to replace evaporation or RO/DI water with appropriate 2 part.

 

Day 6

1/4 tsp sugar

normal lighting

1 g RO/DI top off with 1 tsp kalk and enough RO/DI water to replace evaporation or RO/DI water with appropriate 2 part.

 

Day 7

normal lighting

25% water change

1/4 tsp sugar added after water change.

 

Both times dinos were back but not nearly at the level as before.

 

Week 3

 

Day 1

1/2 tsp sugar

normal lighting

1 g RO/DI top off with 1 tsp kalk and enough RO/DI water to replace evaporation or RO/DI water with appropriate 2 part.

 

Day 2

1/2 tsp sugar

lights out and tank covered with a heavy dark colored blanket

1 g RO/DI top off with 1 tsp kalk and enough RO/DI water to replace evaporation or RO/DI water with appropriate 2 part.

 

Day 3

1/2 tsp sugar

lights out and tank covered with a heavy dark colored blanket

1 g RO/DI top off with 1 tsp kalk and enough RO/DI water to replace evaporation or RO/DI water with appropriate 2 part.

 

Day 4

1/2 tsp sugar

lights out and blanket removed

1 g RO/DI top off with 1 tsp kalk and enough RO/DI water to replace evaporation or RO/DI water with appropriate 2 part.

 

Day 5

1/2 tsp sugar

actinics only

1 g RO/DI top off with 1 tsp kalk and enough RO/DI water to replace evaporation or RO/DI water with appropriate 2 part.

 

Day 6

1/2 tsp sugar

actinics only and 5 hours of "daylight" bulbs

1 g RO/DI top off with 1 tsp kalk and enough RO/DI water to replace evaporation or RO/DI water with appropriate 2 part.

 

Day 7

normal lighting

25% water change

1/2 tsp sugar added after water change.

 

This seems be be the last week of their miserable little lives. Both times they are completely gone after the lights out period and the added sugar dosing never to return (knock on wood).

 

Week 4

 

Day 1

1/4 tsp sugar

normal lighting

1 g RO/DI top off with 1 tsp kalk and enough RO/DI water to replace evaporation or RO/DI water with appropriate 2 part.

 

Day 2

1/4 tsp sugar

normal lighting

1 g RO/DI top off with 1 tsp kalk and enough RO/DI water to replace evaporation or RO/DI water with appropriate 2 part.

 

Day 3

1/4 tsp sugar

normal lighting

1 g RO/DI top off with 1 tsp kalk and enough RO/DI water to replace evaporation or RO/DI water with appropriate 2 part.

 

Day 4

1/4 tsp sugar

normal lighting

1 g RO/DI top off with 1 tsp kalk and enough RO/DI water to replace evaporation or RO/DI water with appropriate 2 part.

 

Day 5

1/4 tsp sugar

normal lighting

1 g RO/DI top off with 1 tsp kalk and enough RO/DI water to replace evaporation or RO/DI water with appropriate 2 part.

 

Day 6

1/4 tsp sugar

normal lighting

1 g RO/DI top off with 1 tsp kalk and enough RO/DI water to replace evaporation or RO/DI water with appropriate 2 part.

 

Day 7

normal lighting

25% water change

1/4 tsp sugar added after water change.

 

Week 5

 

Day 1

1/8 tsp sugar

normal lighting

1 g RO/DI top off with 1 tsp kalk and enough RO/DI water to replace evaporation or RO/DI water with appropriate 2 part.

 

Day 2

1/8 tsp sugar

normal lighting

1 g RO/DI top off with 1 tsp kalk and enough RO/DI water to replace evaporation or RO/DI water with appropriate 2 part.

 

Day 3

1/8 tsp sugar

normal lighting

1 g RO/DI top off with 1 tsp kalk and enough RO/DI water to replace evaporation or RO/DI water with appropriate 2 part.

 

Day 4

1/8 tsp sugar

normal lighting

1 g RO/DI top off with 1 tsp kalk and enough RO/DI water to replace evaporation or RO/DI water with appropriate 2 part.

 

Day 5

1/8 tsp sugar

normal lighting

1 g RO/DI top off with 1 tsp kalk and enough RO/DI water to replace evaporation or RO/DI water with appropriate 2 part.

 

Day 6

1/8 tsp sugar

normal lighting

1 g RO/DI top off with 1 tsp kalk and enough RO/DI water to replace evaporation or RO/DI water with appropriate 2 part.

 

Day 7

normal lighting

25% water change

 

Also I can't promise you won't lose any livestock (I personally didn't and would/will use this method again in any of my tanks) or that your tank won't suffer any ill effects using the method above. I personally have used it twice and had 100% results with it. Other results may differ. In other words what I'm saying is this... You use this method at your own risk. It worked for me twice but I can't promise you'll have the same results. MAKE SURE YOU USE A SKIMMER WITH THIS METHOD!!! **end ass covering/chewing transmission

[begin2117]

I have a ten gallon aga and have also noticed a dino outbreak except i have a full blown outbreak. My tank is a month and 1/2 old and all i have is some zoas and mushrooms and this is wut im doing. I was doing biweekly water changes but then i found out that strenthens them so i stopped. I currently have had my lights off for 2 days and have noticed the strands that normally grow 2-4 inches a 8 hour photoperiod completly die off. I put some black paper along the back and sides of the tank to reduce light and my corals are fine for now. the dinos covering the rock have already died and now my cuc is catching up and scraping all thecrap off and eating a good amount of it when they wouldnt touch it before. good luck to you and amazing tank!!!

[Stephen-in-Va]

I was doing biweekly water changes but then i found out that strenthens them so i stopped.

 

This was also something I noticed during the many failed attempts I tried to get rid of this stuff. One method was a week of daily 10% water changes and it made it horribly worse. It took me a little over 4 months of fighting the stuff and recording all of my efforts until I finally found something that got rid of it completely. A little while later when I got it again in another 55 gallon tank the method killed it just like the first go round. Both tanks were up for a bit over a year before being converted to freshwater and given away and the dinos never showed their ugly little strands again.

[zook]

This was also something I noticed during the many failed attempts I tried to get rid of this stuff. One method was a week of daily 10% water changes and it made it horribly worse. It took me a little over 4 months of fighting the stuff and recording all of my efforts until I finally found something that got rid of it completely. A little while later when I got it again in another 55 gallon tank the method killed it just like the first go round. Both tanks were up for a bit over a year before being converted to freshwater and given away and the dinos never showed their ugly little strands again.

 

 

I can't thank everyone enough for all your comments. OMG, Stephen, I hope you copied and paste! Thank you so much for such a detailed record. Because I have such a small tank and the outbreak is minor for now, I'll look into sugar dosing and save it as a last resort. I totally get where you were coming from though: depriving the dinos of their energy source (light) and starving them of their nutrient source (sugar) while keeping the pH high throughout the whole process. Little water changes to not replenish their nutrient source and keeping at it for a good 4 weeks. I will purchase a skimmer and attempt this process.

 

I ponder how we've gotten dinos in our tank. The dinos appeared in my tank the day my clam died. I'm also surprised the rarity of this occurrence, no?

[Stephen-in-Va]

Seems lately it's not as rare as it used to be. Just a month or so ago I've seen a bunch of posts on here and other forums concerning it. First time I've offered my method however. I've kept some form of saltwater tank and freshwater tank since I was 10 or so. I'm almost 33 now. I believe I got dino's both times in my tanks from things I should have never added in the first place. I enjoy surf fishing and the beach. In the past (and once recently) I'll find something while snorkeling or walking the beach while waiting for a bite that I "think" would make a good addition to my tank. The first time I got it I believe it was on some rocks that I brought home with me from the Outer Banks that were a few feet from a jetty there in the surf. I remember scrubbing off something similar before soaking them for a week in a tank of saltwater. I think the light from my tank kicked it off when they were placed in the tank along with the tank being overstocked. The second time I believe it was from some macro I collected while gathering seahorses in the Chesapeake Bay. I added some of the macro to my seahorse tank and reef tank. The seahorse tank never got it but the reef tank did. Again it was overstocked. I believe I dodged a bullet on the seahorse tank. I can't back any of that up with anything but my guess... But it's the only thing I could find to point a finger at. I don't believe it's something that can make it into our tanks without some form of outside source. Be it a rock, coral, or some other form of livestock or item we purchase "alive" and add. Again that's just my observation. I've learned my lesson and thankfully a way to deal with it that's worked for me so far. I even hate the stuff enough to leave those cool rocks, crabs, snails, or other things I see at the beach right where I found them. Minus the crab pot seahorse in August. lol

 

Possibly it could have been that the clam or something else could have had a small patch that didn't have enough nutrients to thrive or reproduce until the nutrients were elevated by the clam dying. It's a mysterious thing honestly. There's lots to read about them but some of the articles are vague or cover them only in natural environments. It seems there's not much known about the types we get in our tanks or how to completely rid them of it. Not to mention how toxic they are/aren't.

 

I know one thing. I'll take red bugs, aptasia, mojano's, a PITA fish or invert, or any other type of nuisance algae or pest you can throw at me over dino any day. The things are disheartening when you can't get rid of them or at least get them under control. They are one of the reason I never add live rock or live sand anymore to new tanks unless it comes from one of my tanks. I like using base rock to make my own live rock. And why I inspect every snail, crab, or coral I purchase like a mad man before adding it.

 

LOL... I tried to cut and paste. For some reason the program I have the info saved on or the browser I'm using made it all scroll off the screen instead of pasting it correctly.

[zook]

Stephen! It must be awesome to be close to the ocean. I go fishing with my brother in Newport, RI sometimes and I drool over the cone jellies with their rainbow iridescence. Sadly, a lot of the livestock and rocks we obtain comes directly from the ocean so we really don't know what unseen organisms we add to the tank. You're totally right on these organisms taking advantage of increased nutrients from the dead clam: I too as adding something to the tank that I shouldn't have. My tank was already well stocked. It seems with the whole nano-reef phenomenon, overstocking can be so easily done as we all want a little piece of everything in the little tank.

 

I've read that the some zooanthellae that corals host are a form dinoflagellates? With high lighting, nutrients, and corals expelling excess zooanthellae, maybe we are actually seeing the free living zooanthellae taking advantage of the tank environment. Just a thought.

 

I'll be getting a skimmer and some kalk next week. Hopefully with reduced lightning, I can eliminate this minor outbreak. Again, I'm very appreciative of all the help. This is my first saltwater tank (I'll start a thread on it soon) and I couldn't enjoy the experience more (=

[Stephen-in-Va]

I've read that the some zooanthellae that corals host are a form dinoflagellates? With high lighting, nutrients, and corals expelling excess zooanthellae, maybe we are actually seeing the free living zooanthellae taking advantage of the tank environment. Just a thought.

 

It very well could be and is similar. We would have chronic problems I think if that was the case though. I've noticed with the "poop" and zoo corals or anemones sometimes expel it's eaten by a shrimp or crab when they come across it. With dinos nothing seems to touch it. Some things even seem to avoid it. That more than likely comes down to how toxic it's said to be. It's a mysterious organism. The cock roach snot of our marine hobby. lol

 

Good luck with the tank. Let me know how the dino progresses and if you find a skimmer. I'll have a skimmer for sale sometime next week or the week after. I'm planning to plumb a frag tank into my 30 gallon and want to upgrade to handle the larger load and water volume.

 

Also don't buy kalk from your LFS. Make a trip to the grocery store and pick up some Pickling Lime. Same thing and 1/4 the price if not cheaper. Easy to find this time of year also. I buy enough of it every late summer or early fall to last me throughout the year. Cheers!

[zook]

Ah, very good point. Reef cockroach snot, it is (= Thanks for the advice on Pickling Lime. I'll keep the thread posted on how the tank fares once I get the skimmer going and dosing the kalk. I really appreciate all your help. Thank you.

[natedogg]

I know this is old, but i have the same problem. Any update?! Need help ASAP.

[johnmaloney]

Sorry for starting another thread on brown algae, but I really want to confirm the ID.

 

I have an AP12 that have been running for about 3 months. The tank has a 70w Sunpod with MJ900 return and two K-Nanos for flow. Livestock include mostly LPS and zoos with small perc clown, royal gramma, and sailfin blenny (see FTS).

 

The algae started appearing about three weeks ago; it's brown and forms long strings on corals, rocks, and substrate (see pictures). I'm seeing some trapped bubbles, but not in a snot-like manner or quantity that I'm seeing in pictures of dino blooms (picture). For the past two weekends, the tank were in complete darkness to kill the algae off; this seem to help. I reduced my photo period from 12 to 10 hours.

 

The changes that might have caused this appearance are death of a 4" maxima (9/11) and change in water usage (9/12). My log seem to indicate that the algae appeared on the day the clam died. I went from RO drinking water to Vertmont Pure Natural Spring Water (free at work, I'm getting a breakdown of their water tests in the mail soon). We don't need to go into details how stupid these moves were.

 

Do we think it's dinos? I have some precious livestock that I don't want harmed. If it is dinos: 4-6 days of total darkness, raise pH to 8.4+, double carbon usage, skim? Thank you everyone for reading and helping out.

 

Pictures taken this morning.

 

looks like a cyano species