DIY 2 part doser idea...

[glennr1978]

I've been looking around at all the 2 part dosing pumps and have reached the conclusion that the only one that is worth buying is the LMIII. Unfortunately to set one up how I would like it is a little out of my budget. So I started thinking...all these things do is control a pump that pumps fluids into the tank, right? So wouldn't it be possible to DIY the same thing?

 

Here's my idea.

 

2 aqualifters that pump 3 gal. per hour = 190mL per minute.

 

Dilute 2 part (currently using B- Ionic, 40mL's of each part per day).

 

Set up a digital lamp timer that comes on for 1 minute 4 times per day (maybe just twice a day).

 

If I dilute the B-Ionic properly this would work right?

 

Also, couldn't I use similar prinicpals to dose kalk at night? Using a valve at the end of the tubing to slow the flow down to a slow drip fo course!!!

[Shortie]

I don't know why not! You would just need to be able to ensure that the diluted additives would not come out of solution. (if that would even be a problem)

[glennr1978]

I don't know why not! You would just need to be able to ensure that the diluted additives would not come out of solution. (if that would even be a problem)

I don't see why it would considering you have to add RO/DI to the concentrate of B-Ionics anyway. Atleast you have to for the 1g jugs!!

 

I went out to wal mart and bought a timer and a few small jugs. I have one aqualifter in my garage and I'm going to order two more in a couple minutes. I hope to be working on this little project by early next week. I'll keep you guys posted.

[The Propagator]

Slow that drip rate waaayyyy down Hoss.

I would do 1gph MAX and even thats pretty fast.

When I drip mine I set it to drip about 32 OZ in right about 3.5-4 hours.

Since your worried about PH spikes thats the safest way to avoid them.

Dosing at 3gph and you might as well just dump it in there because there would be no difference

[glennr1978]

Yeah I could slow the flow down fairly easily. Do you think that would be the best route to take, or should I dilute the B-Ionics to match the flow rate?

 

I'm sure I will get bored later on tonight and play around with it a little bit with the one spare aqualifter I already have.

[glennr1978]

Well my first test run went surprisingly well. After about ten minutes and adjusting the flow five or six times I got it to where it pumped exactly 20mL per minute. So if I set the timer to turn the pump on twice a day I'm all set.

 

My display lights turn on at 1:30 and off at 10:30. So what would be the best time to set the timer to dose the two parts?

 

I'm also going to set one of these up to dose kalk and it will be set on the same timer as my fuge light. Hopefully this along with dosing the two part twice daily instead of once will make Ph swings more mild.

[The Propagator]

Well it's really doesn't matter what time of day you dose your Calcium because that doesn't effect anything other then calcium. The Kalk would be best mixed in with your regular top off water and SLOWY dripped in. It will raise your PH level SUBSTANTIALLY. Like around 9 or higher more then likely if you do not.

That kind of swing could kill stuff off or at the least bleach it out fairly fast. Which is why I don't use lime water.

 

Which is why I prefer to use baking soda ( NOT BAKING POWDER ). It will still raise your PH some what but not nearly as bad as lime water, or pretty much anything else on the market, AND it is EASIER to mix, easier to dose, and just as cheap as Kalk or pickling lime. Like I said though it will also have a slight increasing effect on your over all PH so it should also be dripped in, but it is temporary and will only last about 12-14 hours. I usually see about 8.5-6 instead of the usual 8.3 PH wen I dose it.

Which wont hurt a thing. when dosing lime water there is full potential if you dose to much at once to see spikes in the 9's easily. AND you have to worry about not sucking up the white stuff in to your aquarium where as when your using baking soda no worries ! It ALL dissolves in minutes into a completely crystal clear solution that will not separate easily like lime water.

 

Whoops !!

I forgot to add: I always dose my Baking soda after lights out when the tank needs alk. That way the PH swing isn't as close to the thresh hold of being to high, and I never dose calcium on the same day.

ALWAYS dose calcium on separate days.

[glennr1978]

Well it's really doesn't matter what time of day you dose your Calcium because that doesn't effect anything other then calcium. The Kalk would be best mixed in with your regular top off water and slowly dripped in. It will raise your PH level SUBSTANTIALLY. Like around 9 or higher more then likely if you do not.

That kind of swing could kill stuff off or at the least bleach it out fairly fast. Which is why I don't use lime water.

 

Which is why I prefer to use baking soda ( NOT BAKING POWDER ). It will still raise your PH some what but not nearly as bad as lime water, or pretty much anything else on the market, AND it is EASIER to mix, easier to dose, and just as cheap as Kalk or pickling lime. Like I said though it will also have a slight increasing effect on your over all PH so it should also be dripped in, but it is temporary and will only last about 12-14 hours. I usually see about 8.5-6 instead of the usual 8.3 PH wen I dose it.

Which wont hurt a thing. when dosing lime water there is full potential if you dose to much at once to see spikes in the 9's easily. AND you have to worry about not sucking up the white stuff in to your aquarium where as when your using baking soda no worries ! It ALL dissolves in minutes into a completely crystal clear solution that will not separate easily like lime water.

 

Whoops !!

I forgot to add: I always dose my Baking soda after lights out when the tank needs alk. That way the PH swing isn't as close to the thresh hold of being to high, and I never dose calcium on the same day.

ALWAYS dose calcium on separate days.

 

Okay, I'm under the impression that dosing alk raises Ph, is that not correct? I've also read that it is best to dose Alk in the morning rather than later in the day when Ph is typically at it's peak.

 

So you're saying I shouldn't use kalk at all huh? Fair enough. So dripping baking soda will basically do the same job, with reprecussions that aren't as harsh if I were to screw it up??

 

Basically all I'm trying to achieve is greater stability in my tank. I figured that if I were to break up the dosing into 2 or more times per day it wouldn't be as drastic as dosing once every morning. However, I'm not dedicated enough to manually dose my tank more than once a day, nor is my schedule steady enough to allow that to happen.

 

I follow you on pretty much everything except for the last part. If you're dosing 2 part, and in your case baking soda, you don't do it daily? Again, I'm under the impression that you're supposed to dose 2 part daily, and kalk (or baking soda) at night to keep Ph from dropping.

[The Propagator]

The reason you wont have to do it daily if you use baking soda is most ALL alk buffers sold specifically for aquariums are WEAK AS FOOK and only last about 24hrs or so MAX if your tank is eating it up alk. Baking soda last twice as long IME. The longest lasting alk buffer I have found that last longer then 24 hrs is B-ionic. But you can get identical results using baking soda and its MUCH MUCH MUCH cheaper. It cost around $5.99 for an 8lb bag that will last you a frigg'n year versus $12-$16 a bottle that will last a month. Are you picking up what I am putting down now Baking soda raises alkalinity, last twice as long, and is much cheaper to buy, and use versus Kalwasser, or B-ionic, or any other store bought reef product that raises and buffers alkalinity.

 

The reason I does after the lights go off is for the same reason your peeps are telling you to do it after they just come basically. Only I feel my way is safer as far as swings go. Here's why...

When you turn the light son you have less than an hour before your PH raises back up to normal levels.

When you turn them off same story only you have a full 8-10 hours to dose and not worry about accidentally spiking your PH above the max level like you do when the lights are on.

You may not initially have to worry about it but you do after you have dosed it if the lights are on.

It takes a few good hours for the alk to saturate properly and stabilize in the water column. If you do it when the lights are on it will be buffering your PH up the whole time.

 

Now this of course also depends on the amount your dosing. For me I need to do it after lights out because I wait until my alk drops 2 points then I add because its easier to measure out that way.

Example in a 100 gal tank ( actually 95 with rock and stuff) using baking soda if my alk is a 7.5 and I want it at 10 I dose .9 oz ( I normally just make it an even oz though) but If I just raised it .5 or 1 point I would have to tinker around and measure out a tedious and painstaking 0.1oz - 0.3 oz. I don't have a digital scale or lab grade equipment. I use those little medicine cups that measure in FL. OZ, ML,Drams, CC's, and TBS. I cant measure those small amounts with them and I aint ponying up the $$ for a digital scale capable of measuring out those minute amounts

So even though I am raising it substantially I am taking at least 6 hours to do it and doing it during lights off so I wont spike my PH or shock the hell out of my system by dosing it all at once.

 

You DO NOT have to dose both parts on the SAME DAY. That is complete BUNK. The idea is just to keep both parameters relatively balanced. It does not happen immediately after you dose each part any way. It can take up to 10-12 hours for the calcium alone to saturate to begin with. It is in fact actually better to dose one or the other 1st and let it soak over night for 8-10 hours so it will saturate and give you a correct reading so you know exactly how much of the other part to balance it out with.

Doing this a few times and testing directly before you dose and the following day after will also give you a much better idea how much calcium or alkalinity your tank is ACTUALLY using and how much the amounts your dosing are ACTUALLY raising your alkalinity or calcium. Once you get that down you can pretty much just sail on..dose accordingly to your tanks consumption rate, and test once a week.

Its a little work right off the bat but it is so much easier once you know your tanks actual consumption.

 

Don't freak out if you discover your tank is using more alkalinity then calcium. There is an 80% chance it will BTW unless you have low mag. (or hella sps) in which case you'll need to buy a mag test kit and some Mag supplement and gradually raise it is the mag is low. Then your calcium will stabilize.

 

If you want to you can PM me your number again and I can call you and talk you through it versus typing and waiting and all that crap ?

 

It can get confusing but its not nearly as bad as it seems.

[The Propagator]

Come on Glenn. reply back to this thread or I swear I will dig up your number and prank you at 3 AM.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(not really)

[glennr1978]

Okay, I think I pretty much follow what you're saying now. Let me give a quick run down of my interpretation to make sure I have it correct. I should ditch part 1 (alk) of b ionics and start using baking soda, right? As of right now I am dosing equal ammounts for both Ca, and Alk, and my parameters typically run as follows......Alk before dosing =8 and after dosing =10. Since I'm dosing at right around 11:30ish every morning and my lights come on at 1:30, I am probably causing a large Ph spike....correct? If so, start dosing after lights out (an hour or so??)? I don't test for Ca all that often anymore, but everytime I do it is in the 420 to 440 range. So I'm good on that part, right? And from what I understand if I start dosing the Alk at night rather than in the morning I probably won't need to dose kalk at all?

 

So if I actually do pick up what you're putting down I need to set the timer to dose at Alk at around 11:30pm and maybe again at say 4 0r 5 in the am (remember I have it set to dose exactly 20mL so I need to do it twice)??? And I can dose Ca basically whenever I damn well please, correct? I think I'm going to get another timer to so I can have the 2 parts dose at different times. Once I get my new ACJR set up I will be able to moniter the Ph swings much more accurately, and will be able to adjust my Alk dosing schedule accordingly.

 

Oh yeah, I supp. roughly 40mL of Tech M in with my wc's (5g a week) and that keeps my mag level at 1350 pretty consistantly. And yes I do have quite a bit of Alk, and Ca suckers in my tank. It currently consists of approx. 30 ish frags / colonies of SPS and 2 clams, a derasa, and a crocea. The derasa's growth rate is extremely fast, so It's gotta be sucking up alot of the good stuff!!!

 

Sorry it took me a while to respond, work got in the way!!! You can call me at 3am anytime, call me at 10 am and we're gonna have issues !!

[The Propagator]

You hav epretty well go tit down save for dosing calcium any time you please. You can dose it when ever you want, just not on the same day as your dosing alkalinity. Either doe sit before you dose your alk by at least 8 hours or after by at least 8 hours.

Yes baking soda replaces your Kalkwasser. If you have a low PH problem starting after the switch then bake the baking soda on a baking pan in the oven at 375 for 2-3 hours. that turns it in to soda ash and it will rais your PH as well as alkalinity in doing so.

[glennr1978]

You hav epretty well go tit down save for dosing calcium any time you please. You can dose it when ever you want, just not on the same day as your dosing alkalinity. Either doe sit before you dose your alk by at least 8 hours or after by at least 8 hours.

Yes baking soda replaces your Kalkwasser. If you have a low PH problem starting after the switch then bake the baking soda on a baking pan in the oven at 375 for 2-3 hours. that turns it in to soda ash and it will rais your PH as well as alkalinity in doing so.

 

Okay, then how does this look for my initial dosing routine once i get it all set up.

 

20mL Alk (gonna stick with the B-Ionics until it runs out then I will likely switch) at 11:30 pm

 

20mL Alk at 3:30am

 

40mL Ca at 12:30pm (I can just set the timer to turn the pump on for two minutes instead of one to dose the entire 40mL at once)

 

Oh yeah..... once again, my display lighting schedule is from 1:30pm to 10:30pm

[The Propagator]

Sounds great.

[glennr1978]

Sounds great.

 

That's all I needed to hear....errr, read!! Thanks for all of your help. As always, I really appreciate it.

[The Propagator]

zaa...light !

 

[glennr1978]

Quick update:

 

I've been using my my little 2 part dosing pump system since June and it has worked flawlessly. dkh still fluctuates from 9 to 10 throughout a 24 hour period (which is fine with me), but Ph stays very consistant between 8.12 and 8.25. Since I moved the tank I haven't set up my second pump for Ca so I've just been dosing manually everyday.

 

The only thing I've changed is how much and how often the pump doses for Alk. Since I accidentally killed my derasa clam my Alk intake has dropped considerably. My tank is only consuming about 25 mL of B-Ionics per day. So now I have the system dialed down to only pump 5mL per minute, which I have spread out to 5x's throughout the night.

 

Btw, I think I'm going to go ahead ansd stick with B-Ionics permanantly. The 2 jugs only cost me about $28 and they are still about 1/3 full after 5 months. I know I could get something even less expensive, but this stuff works for me, and isn't exactly breaking the bank .

[viinse]

Nice thread!

[glennr1978]

thanks.

[The Propagator]

Hey if that's what works for you then use it bubba.

That's the thing about this hobby. What works excellent for one may not work as well for another.

But the good thing is you have a LOT of available options.

Glad to hear its all working out fine Glenn !

[glennr1978]

Hey if that's what works for you then use it bubba.

That's the thing about this hobby. What works excellent for one may not work as well for another.

But the good thing is you have a LOT of available options.

Glad to hear its all working out fine Glenn !

 

thanks again for all of your help when i was trying to figure out how to set this thing up. you're the man!!

[The Propagator]

Obviously I am not the man if it didn't work for you

You're the man for figuring it out on your end.

 

" No... you da' man ! "

 

 

 

Seriously though its not a problem Glenn thats why we are all supposed to be here.

To pas son knowledge and help our fellow reefers succeed

[glennr1978]

Obviously I am not the man if it didn't work for you

You're the man for figuring it out on your end.

 

" No... you da' man ! "

 

 

 

Seriously though its not a problem Glenn thats why we are all supposed to be here.

To pas son knowledge and help our fellow reefers succeed

 

yep yep.

 

check your PMs man!!

[The Propagator]

I did and I replied.

I had to douche out the box a little bit ago.

Been getting HELL'A PM's lately from all walks of life LOL!

S'all gravy do' baby ! I used to do the same looking for advice and answers.

[Paintguru]

Sounds great! I too have been choking on the cost of the dosing systems out there. I have a 90 gal cube that I would like to dose automatically, and this sounds like a good method. I couldn't tell, but did you stick with diluting the 2-part additives or are you dosing at full strength?