Caesar777 Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 I had great success in keeping an Octopus briareus a few years ago, at the tender age of 16-17, feeding her red-claw crabs from Petco and even getting a batch of eggs, one of which I found as a fully-formed neonate cruising the tank months later! Unfortunately, at that time I had nor the expertise nor the access to proper diet (crab nymphs, amphipods, etc.) and so all I had was brine shrimp cysts....which killed him off. I read up all I could, and found similar results with not only cephalopods (but especially them--over 95% losses in every documented case I'd found) but with other fish as well. Sure, you can raise baby clownfish on bbs but your results will be much higher % survival with trawled plankton. So I lost the little pea-sized baby, and missed him dearly. He was so small that his chromatophores were gigantic spots on him that would pulse colors in flecks...amazing. I've been toying with the idea of having another octopus for months now, and then about a month or two ago I stopped by my work to find that we had CUTTLEFISH EGGS. Not just that, but many of them had already hatched, but they were officially i.d.'d as Sepia bandensis, the dwarf cuttlefish and one of very, very few cuttles that stay small, this one about 3-4". (Compare to the beautiful Pharaoh cuttlefish from around the UK, which grows to 18" or more and weighs over a kilo!) Until recently, the only really available cuttlefish were the ones being farmed overseas for food, with a few extras being sent to Europe, Japan, and the USA as pets, but these were S. officionalis, another large species. So needless to say I was OVERJOYED to see these globulous eggs in all their glory. Things were going on in my life at the time, though, and so I missed my opportunity as our customers snatched them right up. A month later, I asked my boss how their cephalopod adventures had gone, and surprisingly it was with great success. One lost his entire half-dozen to a mantis shrimp he hadn't known was there, which he caught and disbanded (lol). Another had his three big alphas team up to kill the smallest omega cuttle, but the rest of the three have grown to over an inch and a half since then. And to my surprise, we got another two groups of eggs the next time I was in a month later. Seems the customers who got either one or three had the best success, so I went with three. That was just two days ago, and they seem to be doing alright. I've read s.g. is ideal at 1.025, rock to hide in (nice cured piece with no bristleworms), and for now the tiny trio are in a little acrylic 2-gallon cube. I was going to use my 5-gallon AGA but they're so small that they might find it too hard to find their food. But I have an array of tanks prepared for them as they grow: my 5-gal AGA, a 12-gallon NanoCube (used $30, whoohoo), a 40-gallon Via Aqua, although it's being used for my planted tank, which was in a 54-gallon corner but the setup wouldn't fit anywhere in my parents' three-story but small townhouse, so I might skip that and go straight to the 54 when they're a good 2-1/2 inches, maybe three. They're not extremely active, tend to hang out in one place. Tonmo.com recommends 20-30 gallons per adult S. bandensis, so I think, especially considering the footprint of the 54, it's ideal for them. I'll have no coral because I don't want that addiction again, but I'll get some nice live rock and some macro, who knows what else. I'll look around for ideas. While the ones at work have reportedly been eating frozen/thawed mysis, I made the effort to collect some amphipods and live mysids to supplement their diets to be sure they get enough. They're still very frightened of me and have inked at me a couple times when I've approached the tank too suddenly--even stooping--so I just drop their food in and leave and hope that they eat it. One thing is for sure, they won't yet eat with stimulus around, particularly *another* person that might catch them and move them around. I plan to go to a clean beach to collect more amphipods, just to be sure they're eating, and continue with the mysis and frequent water changes. 2-gal tank is too small for a skimmer to be feasible, so all I have is that hang-on filter, but at least it pulls the particulate. Siphon the bottom every few days, easy peasy. REVERSE-OSMOSIS WATER IS A MUST WITH THESE.... FYI. They're sensitive to pollutants, silicates, metals, phosphate, etc etc. More to come, like pics. But they're so dang small that it's impossible to get a pic of them at this point, and if I stay in front of them too long, it stresses them and since they've inked at me a few times, the last thing they want is stress, to possibly get them off eating. They're extremely fast growers, extremely efficient at processing their food, and so they need to eat a lot to survive. LIVE FAST AND DIE is the cephalopod motto, with few exceptions. Even the local giant octopus, O. dolfleini, lives barely two years, and their body can be the size of a basketball with six-foot arms and a body weight of 40 kilos or more. That's a large species AND coldwater, so consider in comparison the Caribbean dwarf octopus, O. joubini, and the Hawiaiian blue-ring octopus (its own genus of four species, Hapalochlaena), which live in warm water and mature smaller than a golf ball, live barely 6-8 months from hatching. Anyway more to come. Link to comment
dtfleming Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 cool hope they grow out well, I dont know much about them. Link to comment
Caesar777 Posted May 4, 2008 Author Share Posted May 4, 2008 Well, the key is of course first getting them to eat. Then other than that, good water quality. Keep them in a species-only tank (no fish, shrimp, or crabs, as all are food for these voracious eaters) and it's easy-peasy. Use a skimmer on their tank if you can, because when they ink it's protein-based and can stick to their gills and suffocate them if the concentration is high enough. Skimmers will pull that right out, and you'll have funny black skimmate too. It was funny when a seahare got caught onto the intake from the middle coral system that goes straight to the back room, bc it hits the skimmer first (ETSS).... FUN purple foam, yay! Sluggy didn't make it, though, poor guy. :/ Link to comment
Lalani Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 Wow, really looking forward to this one. Link to comment
cfeist Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 Can't wait... cuttlefish are amazing. I've watched tons of videos on youtube of them, they really are fascinating to watch, hope it goes well for you, can't wait for some photos. Link to comment
BibleSue Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 That's one of the things I love about you-you don't do the usual. I learn much from your adventures. I'm following along on this one too! Link to comment
starfish609 Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 Cool, can't wait to see lots of pics. Have you ever watched the documentary "ABC - Cuttlefish: The Brainy Bunch" also known as "Nova - Kings of Camouflage" it's a great show. Also, "Blue Realm: Underwater Adventure - Tentacles" is good; it's about cuttlefish and octopi. There is another good documentary or two on cuttlefish but I can't think of the names right now. Cheers Link to comment
SaltWaterNewb Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 Very cool. How long lived are these guys? Link to comment
Professor Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 Tagging along as usual C7. I love Cephs and always enjoy your tanks as well as the narrative and personal feeling you impart in your threads. Good luck! -Prof Link to comment
Fishfreak218 Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 Very cool. How long lived are these guys? anywhere from 12-16 months C7, Im glad you decided to make a thread on these guys! Mine will be up thursday with tons of pictures! Cant wait to see what we observe with the cuttles! Link to comment
SaltWaterNewb Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 anywhere from 12-16 monthsC7, Im glad you decided to make a thread on these guys! Mine will be up thursday with tons of pictures! Cant wait to see what we observe with the cuttles! Neat. For some reason I was thinking they lived only for a matter of weeks. Maybe I am thinking of jellyfish? Link to comment
starfish609 Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 anywhere from 12-16 monthsC7, Im glad you decided to make a thread on these guys! Mine will be up thursday with tons of pictures! Cant wait to see what we observe with the cuttles! Wow! Another one, looking forward to your thread as well. The only thing I don't like about the cuttlefish life-cycle is how they deteriorate at the end. Link to comment
Caesar777 Posted May 5, 2008 Author Share Posted May 5, 2008 Well, I collected a lot more mysids and amphipods at work today, along with a small piece of live rock covered in teacup algae, a rare favorite of mine. Goes well with the Caulerpa peltata in there now. This morning when I got up to peek at them, one freaked out and inked three times, almost hit the wall, inked again, saw me, inked again, and finally came to hiding in a crevice in the rock. Poor thing, I obviously gave him quite a jolt! When I got home today, I was greeted with another ink-cloud but as I was moving things around in their tank, they were calming down, not swimming frantically, more just cruising around. One was very bold, formed his smooth body into jarring spikes all over and gave me his most menacing threat posture with attack-arms raised! How darling, the little brute! They'll soon calm down and find all the tasty little inverts running around for them to snack on. I may have seen one of them reaching out and drawing in a piece of the frozen/thawed mysis I'd left there last night, but I couldn't tell. Embarrassingly, my eyesight is not so great and I only got reading glasses before my insurance ran out. They've been getting small waterchanges every two days or so: I use my trusty turkey-baster to suck up all visible detritus, then pull a little more water just to be sure. This is going to be a fun adventure for sure! Link to comment
dickie52 Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 OK, best of luck, I got my eye on ya..... Hoping for the best!!! Link to comment
Caesar777 Posted May 6, 2008 Author Share Posted May 6, 2008 One turned red at me today. Very neat. Hiding underneath the rock as usual, but saw me from the corner of his crazy eye and turned deep metallic burgundy. His friend, a little more spooked, turned spiky and inked as he jetted away. The third I watched slowly pull a dead amphipod (maybe a previous kill, or maybe dead from me grabbing it from the rocks and mortally wounding it?) with one tentacle to himself and begin slowly eating it. I try to give them space, especially in these first few days, because they obviously fear me and fear means anxiety, anxiety means stress, stress means repressed hunger and normal behaviors are affected, lowering their chances. I've long learned to be patient with new display animals, to give them time and observe them only enough to be sure they're hanging on alright. Link to comment
Fishfreak218 Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 I cant wait to see pictures! I bet that 2.5g seems like a 100g. to them since yours are new borns (thus, very small) p.s. my thread is up as well! go check it out Link to comment
Caesar777 Posted May 6, 2008 Author Share Posted May 6, 2008 Cool. Nice pharaoh... Too bad they get 18" and over a Kilo in weight. Link to comment
Fishfreak218 Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 Cool. Nice pharaoh... Too bad they get 18" and over a Kilo in weight. I know, and their zebra pattern is super cool... but, regardless... Im really excited about my new bandensis Link to comment
BibleSue Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 One turned red at me today. Very neat. Hiding underneath the rock as usual, but saw me from the corner of his crazy eye and turned deep metallic burgundy. His friend, a little more spooked, turned spiky and inked as he jetted away. The third I watched slowly pull a dead amphipod (maybe a previous kill, or maybe dead from me grabbing it from the rocks and mortally wounding it?) with one tentacle to himself and begin slowly eating it. I try to give them space, especially in these first few days, because they obviously fear me and fear means anxiety, anxiety means stress, stress means repressed hunger and normal behaviors are affected, lowering their chances. I've long learned to be patient with new display animals, to give them time and observe them only enough to be sure they're hanging on alright. You do awesome word pictures! I can picture them as you describe them! I am waiting for the day when they calm down enough for you to snap their photo! Link to comment
bluepanda Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 Awww how neat! Have you noticed significant growth? Link to comment
Weetabix7 Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 Wow, VERY cool, I will definitely be following along for this one!!! Link to comment
SPS20 Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 Very, very neat! I hope at some point you get a chance to get some pictures, I would love to see the little guys. (But not if it means stressing the crap out of them) Link to comment
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