siwelk Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 Ok. So I've been contemplating which type of filtration/sump/fuge design I'd like to implement on my 30g breeder project. I'm currently piecing it together over the next 6 months as I will be moving in July. My new Deco 3g should arrive this week for the meantime . Anyway, I don't have and endless supply of $$ like some of you , so I'd like to do my best to buy things once and not have to upgrade later. I also love a good deal and try to save money wherever I can. I approximate that I have roughly $1500 for start-up costs. I've already purchased my tank and stand. A Perfecto 30g breeder and matching stand from my LFS for the Halloween sale price of $175. Next, I've been looking at lighting and filtration. I've been a saltwater enthusiast for about 4 years now but only had a FOWLR for about a year...and that was back in high school. I try to research as much as a I can and I consider myself to have a good grasp of the basics and intermediate material. First off, I must divulge that I have a certain OCD-ish quality about neatness and order. So all my equipment must be hidden from view in the stand. I realize now that Perfecto aquariums are all-tempered and I cannot drill it as I had previously wanted to. I've since come to terms with the fact that I must use a HOB overflow and return. Other than that and the lights, Id like everything to take place under my stand. That being said, my stands internal dimensions limit me to a space of roughly 34"x11"x28". That in and of itself greatly reduces the size of many pre-made sumps/fuges and limits me to either a 10 or 15H tank to use underneath. Unless I fashion up a multi-tank system in which ive found I can fit two 10g tanks in a diagonal, or a 10g (sump) and 5g (fuge) one above the other. So heres my thought. I've found a system that is mostly self-contained and fits perfectly under my stand. It is also currenly on sale and includes many components that I would need. It is a wet/dry system and I've asked about it before, only to get a lot of "wet/dry isn't good for reef tank" respones. This I know. So naturally I will not use the bio balls (or in this case sintered glass media) and replace it with live rock instead. My LFS has one of these systems on their FO "for sale" tanks and I've inquired about it and they said that it works pretty well for them. I've tried to find reviews/comments about it online but not many people seem to be using it or have anything to say about it. What systems is it you may ask??? TA-DA!!!!! Yes, I know its not the best thing out there but let me continue fellow reefers. At a retail price of $400, the Drs had previously offered it for $350. Now it is down to $200 (the PS4 system with ATO) as part of their red-tag sale....only until the end of this week mind you. I've caught some flak from people from considering this system but let me point you in this direction. I'm sure many of you have seen/heard of this system. I know the two can't compare in terms of quality and function, but it is on the same playing field in terms of design and what it is intended to do. And lets not forget the $800 price difference. The Rapids Pro system includes: - built-in protein skimmer (air-driven I know, but I've heard they word decently with an upgraded pump) - return water pump (rated at 1000gph on some sites, 700 on others...0' head of course) -air pump -Surface Skimmer Overflow (continuous siphon I know, but Ill discuss this in a moment) -Aqua Lifter -tubing -clamps -filter media - Auto top off sytem (4 gallon) Now I know people dont like the continuous siphon overflows but heres the beauty of this system. It is self-contained which means...no overlfowing. This also means that the enclosed construction minimizes evaporation and reduces the humidity build up inside the aquarium cabinet. Sound good yet?? Now the even better part. The system once put in my stand leaves a 34"x3"x14" space. What could I put there??? A custom built refugium of course. Probably in a 18"x3"x12" design. Which would yield about an 3 gallon volume I believe. I plan on feeding this from a "T" from the overflow drain and returning it separately via dual spray bars. Still can't picture it?? Well heres a crude sketch of what on plan on doin using Paint...not the best but it works. Also, the fuge will fit directly behind the Rapids system, but I had to sketch it above in order to fit it all on one page. Well hopefully this is enough info for everyone to get the general idea of what I'm tryin to do here and maybe get some positive feedback this time. Although I am always open to more criticism. I'll end with a few ?s. -Whats are the thoughts on this set-up? Do you think it will do a good job? especially for the price? Should I go DIY with some crazy multi-tank fuge/sump setup which will cost more in both time and money? I believe that for the price and what im trying to get out of it, it should do a good job. btw, I plan on doing a 30g breeder mixed reef, mostly softies and polyps...maybe some LPS. Not sure on the fish yet but it will be a relatively small bioload. Probably a pair of clowns, a couple gobies, a vampire pseudochromis (hell yeah LFS!) maaaaaybe a dwarf Eibili angel, and your usual inverts. as always, Thanks in advance -Kyle Link to comment
siwelk Posted November 11, 2007 Author Share Posted November 11, 2007 Heres a direct-link for better viewing Link to comment
siwelk Posted November 11, 2007 Author Share Posted November 11, 2007 a couple differnt sites offering it for sale with differnt pics...the last one has a couple reviews http://www.marineandreef.com/shoppro/filtration_rapids.htm http://www.customaquatic.com/customaquatic...temid=FI-TT1316 http://www.reefbuilders.com/forums/equipme...series-ps4.html Link to comment
siwelk Posted November 11, 2007 Author Share Posted November 11, 2007 completely forgot about this... http://www.tomaquarium.com/press/proseries...lish/index.html Link to comment
siwelk Posted November 11, 2007 Author Share Posted November 11, 2007 come on people...anything?? Link to comment
benzou Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 I just started trying something else that seems to be working very well. Best of all, it's cheap! Things you need to get: 1 x Seachem deNitrate (under $20) 1 x Seachem Stability (under $10) some substrate Seachem deNitrate basically does 2 things. 1 - it will absorb a limited amount of nitrates, 2 - it will serve as a host for both aerobic and anerobic bacteria Seachem Stability has different types of both aerobic and anerobic bacteria, and as a bonus the strains it contains won't create hydrogen sulfide. The downside is that deNitrate requires a rather slow water flow rate to work. (under 50 gph, preferably under 30) So, you can either use a slow flowing canister filter or.... 1) Put down a layer with necessarily amount of deNitrate. 2) Put down a layer of substrate above that (not too fine, you don't want it washing away) 3) Dump on a bunch of the Stability bacteria Basically, the substrate above the deNitrate will slow down water movement through it. (that is if your water is flowing horizontally across the top of the substrate) This works pretty well, has the upside of basically being a deep sand bed solution without having to have a deep sand bed. Also, it doesn't clog over time like a DSB will, and is pretty much maintenance free. You can even toss a nass snail or two in there for good measure. IMO: this is probably one of the cheapest, effective ways to reduce nitrates long term. Link to comment
siwelk Posted November 12, 2007 Author Share Posted November 12, 2007 thanks for the info. ill have to look into that when i get my system up and running. Link to comment
klarion Posted December 24, 2007 Share Posted December 24, 2007 I'm using this system now as well as another user you know, PurpleUP. So far I'm very happy with it and I'm planning to convert it to a mini-fuge in the future. Link to comment
klarion Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Figured out how to make the skimmer unit work well: Link to my post. Link to comment
SPS20 Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 I see what you are trying to do, but it wouldn't work plumbed the way you have it plumbed. Your diagram basically entails a 2-sump system, with the refugium essentially acting as a second sump. It will be impossible for you to safely and reliably regulate the flow of water into and out of each sump independantly. One will run dry while the other overflows, eventually. Instead of having the refugium return water by pumping it into the display tank, have the water exit the refugium via gravity somehow (siphon overflow, standpipe, drill the tank, etc) and return to the sump (the rapids pro). This would fix the problem. Don't pump the water out of the fuge at all, let gravity do that part. Link to comment
bitts Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 dont know how far along you are but. would say to go with a 10/15g fuge plus a 5g ato insted. this plus a used skimmer sould still cost less while being all the filtration you need. a cuntinus siphion overflows arnt bad if the sump is properly setup. to prevent flooding, just make sure that the chamber feeding the pump is smaller than the tank volume between the lip of the overflow and the rim of the tank. probably a gallon or two, this should result in a dead pump and no flood. Link to comment
Needreefunds Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 I see what you are trying to do, but it wouldn't work plumbed the way you have it plumbed. Your diagram basically entails a 2-sump system, with the refugium essentially acting as a second sump. It will be impossible for you to safely and reliably regulate the flow of water into and out of each sump independantly. One will run dry while the other overflows, eventually. Instead of having the refugium return water by pumping it into the display tank, have the water exit the refugium via gravity somehow (siphon overflow, standpipe, drill the tank, etc) and return to the sump (the rapids pro). This would fix the problem. Don't pump the water out of the fuge at all, let gravity do that part. Wow, I can't believe I ran across this thread. I'm trying to something similar myself. I won a Rapids pro ps3 auction a few weeks back. I really only wanted it for the overflow / aqualifter set up so I threw the $99 starting bid at it and was the only bidder. I figured I'd sell the filter assy for a few bucks and come out ahead but now that I have this whole thing I am going to try to run it. I'm going to try bleeding some of the return flow from the ps3's pump to my 10g fuge. From the fuge I will direct flow back to the ps3 canister via gravity through bulkhead fittings drilled into both. With ball valves in both I hope to be able to dial it all in. I had hoped to utilize the lower existing fitting that was ment for their ATO but its a plastic O-ring fitting ( not pipe thread) and I could not find one easily. ANYWAY..... So siwelk, what did you end up doing?? Link to comment
techie73 Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 a couple differnt sites offering it for sale with differnt pics...the last one has a couple reviewshttp://www.marineandreef.com/shoppro/filtration_rapids.htm http://www.customaquatic.com/customaquatic...temid=FI-TT1316 http://www.reefbuilders.com/forums/equipme...series-ps4.html marinenareef.com says saltwater fish only whats that about? Link to comment
klarion Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 marinenareef.com says saltwater fish only whats that about? Hmm, I don't know why they said that, but I'm pretty sure this system is great for smaller reef aquariums. I'm using it on a reef system. Link to comment
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