Purple up

[usmarinekurt]

I am very happy with my tank and its inhabitants and am very cautious at adding anything to it...my LFS (WHO IS EXTREMELY KNOWLEDGEABLE) mentioned it today when asked him this same question. He is kind of old school and refers to alot of stuff like purigen etc as snakeoils and wasn t too psyched about me using it. I would like to purplize my rock a little more but not to risk my wild life. What do you think?

[dshnarw]

I am very happy with my tank and its inhabitants and am very cautious at adding anything to it...my LFS (WHO IS EXTREMELY KNOWLEDGEABLE) mentioned it today when asked him this same question. He is kind of old school and refers to alot of stuff like purigen etc as snakeoils and wasn t too psyched about me using it. I would like to purplize my rock a little more but not to risk my wild life. What do you think?

 

If you keep calcium and alkalinity at their appropriate levels and keep up with your water changes, there's really no need to use it. If your calcium and alkalinity are off, you can get supplements for those at a cheaper price, and have better control over the amounts of each that you add.

 

Patience is better than chemicals in this case, IME.

[usmarinekurt]

my parameters are good..........Ill wait

[StevieT]

Just add calcium and strontium keeping your calc @ 420 ppm and you will see purple coralline soon enough. A good two part solution goes a long way. Purple up is a good product that has these elements included as well. If you are thinking about buying purple up let me know.... i have some available but wouldn't want to charge you more than your LFS since there are shipping charges involved.

[chew*]

Just add calcium and strontium keeping your calc @ 420 ppm and you will see purple coralline soon enough. A good two part solution goes a long way. Purple up is a good product that has these elements included as well. If you are thinking about buying purple up let me know.... i have some available but wouldn't want to charge you more than your LFS since there are shipping charges involved.

 

Actually strontium has less to due with coraline than other chemistry.

 

Alk really doesn't matter either.

 

Calcium and magnesium are the true factors.

 

Strontium if used without testing with a "quality" low range kit can be very dangerous. Max stroontium levels in a reef tank is 15ppm. Not that many test kits can accurately pinpoint correct levels, playing with strontium is like playing with fire. Levels above 15ppm can be catastrophic.

 

Some good info on the use of strontium and its dangers.

 

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2003/chem.htm

[dshnarw]

Alk really doesn't matter either.

 

I encourage you to do your own reading...same location:

 

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb2002/chemistry.htm

 

Alkalinity is closely tied to calcium, and the creation of calcium carbonate requires alkalinity.

[chew*]

I encourage you to do your own reading...same location:

 

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb2002/chemistry.htm

 

Alkalinity is closely tied to calcium, and the creation of calcium carbonate requires alkalinity.

 

Yes but alk has a wide range aka 8-12KH coraline grows fine at any level in that range. Both of my tanks are kept at 7.7KH- 7.9KH for various reasons and coraline still grows like crazy.

 

one of the various reasons

(low nutrient + high alk = burnt corals)

[dshnarw]

Yes but alk has a wide range aka 8-12KH coraline grows fine at any level in that range. Both of my tanks are kept at 7.7KH- 7.9KH for various reasons and coraline still grows like crazy.

 

one of the various reasons

(low nutrient + high alk = burnt corals)

 

 

The fact that it has a range of values (which I would argue has comparatively wide ranges given the concentrations of each...) is not the point. The point is that it is important for coralline algae growth, and thus, should be tested for optimal growth rates.

 

From http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-06/rhf/index.php

 

The effect of corals, coralline algae and other organisms that deposit calcium carbonate, while not exactly the same as abiotic precipitation of calcium carbonate, has some similar attributes with respect to the interrelationships between calcium, alkalinity, pH and magnesium. Some of these are:

 

1. Corals and coralline algae use calcium and alkalinity almost exclusively to deposit calcium carbonate. Because of this they use a fixed ratio of calcium to alkalinity, which is driven by the ratio of calcium and carbonate in calcium carbonate (1:1). The net consumption is about 18-20 ppm of calcium for each 1 meq/L (2.8 dKH) of alkalinity. The reason the amount of calcium varies is that the incorporation of magnesium in place of calcium varies a bit from species to species.

 

2. The fact that corals and coralline algae use a fixed ratio of calcium to alkalinity allows supplements to be devised that mirror this exact ratio. Using such an additive system allows accurate matching of the supplement to the demand, and does not cause rapid swings in calcium or alkalinity relative to each other if the additions are not perfect. Such balanced additives include calcium carbonate/carbon dioxide reactors, limewater/kalkwasser and two-part supplements, among others.

 

3. Under natural seawater conditions (calcium = 420 ppm, pH = 8.2, alkalinity = 2.5 meq/L (7 dKH)), many corals and coralline algae are thought to be limited in their calcification rate by the water's alkalinity level. If the water has additional bicarbonate (alkalinity) in it, then it is possible for deposition of calcium carbonate to occur more rapidly. In other words, if alkalinity is increased in a reef aquarium, then the deposition of calcium carbonate can reduce both calcium and alkalinity.

 

4. If the water's calcium level is below a certain threshold (about 360 ppm when alkalinity is normal), then it can limit calcium carbonate skeletal deposition by corals. In this situation, boosting calcium to natural levels or higher will reduce the alkalinity over time as corals begin to use the calcium and alkalinity at a faster rate.

 

5. If the concentration of calcium or carbonate is too low in a reef aquarium, then corals will have a harder time depositing their calcium carbonate skeletons. Such conditions can stress or even kill them. Under extreme conditions, their skeletons can even dissolve. Aquarists often overlook pH as a big driver in reducing carbonate concentration. Even if the calcium and alkalinity match normal seawater concentrations, pH values below about 7.7 can permit aragonite skeletons to slowly dissolve because the amount of carbonate in solution is so low.

[chew*]

The fact that it has a range of values (which I would argue has comparatively wide ranges given the concentrations of each...) is not the point. The point is that it is important for coralline algae growth, and thus, should be tested for optimal growth rates.

 

From http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-06/rhf/index.php

 

Yes it should be tested but If you are in range I would not go playing around adjusting alk just to grow coraline. If you have a heavy sps tank playing with alk is also playing with fire. alk swings = bad.

 

Just the same if your not in range i wouldn't try to correct it to fast.

[RayWhisperer]

You both bring up valid points. However, chew is correct about playing with strontium.

 

Dshnarw, you gave the best advice IMO, when you said to just keep levels where they need to be. I also think in this case, it can be easily accomplished through weekly water changes alone. After all, this is a newly set up tank. I would hope stocking levels are low or 0, depending on how long it's been up.

 

One last thing.... Purple up is garbage. It really messes with your alkalinity.

[usmarinekurt]

luckily my reef yoda is very conservative.........his store is 90 percent reef and he considers it his collection...his pieces are sold carefully and he guides those who will listen in the right direction

 

He said NOGO on the purple

[RayWhisperer]

Dosing, you need not now young Skywalker.

[chew*]

Good decision and good guidance. just make sure you keep alk, Ca and Mg within natural sea water levels and you will do fine young skywalker.

 

And if you use IO salt expect Mg to be low.

[usmarinekurt]

thanks