HELP... Zoa issues **no copper 5/11**

[LogansRunRx]

It's hard to say what's wrong. I don't think it would be the water changes because that's my normal routine that I've been doing over a year. Haven't had any problems with any of my corals including my zoas and palys.

 

It could be that some kind of chemical got into your system and isn't being easily removed. Are you running any carbon?

there's definitely something going on in the tank that is specifically p1ssing off the zoas...

but for the life of me i can't figure out what???

the LPS is fine.

the fish are fine.

the crabs are fine.

the snails are fine.

 

i have run carbon... a lot of carbon... i typically run purigen and matrix carbon +/- brightwell phos absorber.

i ran a huge bag of carbon a few weeks ago and nada.

 

but still there's something in there that is specifically p1ssing off the zoas.

debating on two things:

1. warner marine H1 skimmer

or

2. making a DIY fuge basket with some of inTank's underwater fuge lights and some black egg crate and chaeto (need to find some chaeto local)

 

looking to do some serious export of something.

didn't thing i would ever be in this position, as everyone says zoas like NOT pristine water.

now my amonioa/nitrites/nitrates are zero... but something else is in there.

 

dunno?

opinions?

[Lawnman]

Your zoas have a fungus. Were these wild caught.I would give them a nice little chemi clean bath. Take some tank water and a little chemi clean and place the zoas in there.Swish them around and squirt them with a turkey baster. Then before placing them back in your tank rinse them in another container of tank water. One of the best ways to keep zoas from getting fungus and detrius build up is to squirt them with a turkey baster every night after the lights go out. Get the detrius into the water so it can be filter out. Interested in why you took the chemi pure elite out. I run chemi pure elite,phosban and a nice sack of carbon.I think Organism ask when was the last time you added any zoas because was thinking maybe something was on them. I don't think that is the problem.Nor do I think it is lights or anything else just a little fungus.I run Oceanic salt in my system and my calcium is 500-540 and my zoas do great. Zoas love iodine but be very careful dosing it. I use 2 drops a week in my 4 gallon water change water that is it no more.

 

I guess I should say how I know they have a fungus. You see on your first picture towards the top right? There is a polyp that is closed up and tight it has brown or dark areas on it. That is fungus. 2nd picture the polyp on the far right brown under the head and down the neck that is fungus.

[LogansRunRx]

Your zoas have a fungus. Were these wild caught.I would give them a nice little chemi clean bath. Take some tank water and a little chemi clean and place the zoas in there.Swish them around and squirt them with a turkey baster. Then before placing them back in your tank rinse them in another container of tank water. One of the best ways to keep zoas from getting fungus and detrius build up is to squirt them with a turkey baster every night after the lights go out. Get the detrius into the water so it can be filter out. Interested in why you took the chemi pure elite out. I run chemi pure elite,phosban and a nice sack of carbon.I think Organism ask when was the last time you added any zoas because was thinking maybe something was on them. I don't think that is the problem.Nor do I think it is lights or anything else just a little fungus.I run Oceanic salt in my system and my calcium is 500-540 and my zoas do great. Zoas love iodine but be very careful dosing it. I use 2 drops a week in my 4 gallon water change water that is it no more.

 

I guess I should say how I know they have a fungus. You see on your first picture towards the top right? There is a polyp that is closed up and tight it has brown or dark areas on it. That is fungus. 2nd picture the polyp on the far right brown under the head and down the neck that is fungus.

 

thanks for the insight, Lawnman!

and pardon the questions, but i really like to know what i'm putting in my tank before i go full on chemical warfare on stuff...

 

u mean, Boyd's Chemi Clean... right?

it's red slime remover??? (aka, cyanobacteria)

it removes fungus too?

 

so to carry this on further... if it's a detritus issue...

then moar flo???

i'm runnin a rio 6hf and a koralia nano (total of about 600 gph).

MP10?

 

on the chemi pure...

again, don't know what's in it...

i know it's supposed to make my water wetter and all that jazz, but i know it's carbon and GFO and some kind of exchange resin (per the package)... and water doesn't flow that well through it.

i get better flow through a bag of MatrixCarbon and Purigen and some GFO in my inTank media basket.

thinking to changing to SeaGel though (MatrixCarbon + PhosGuard)

[GiantBen]

Tagging along, as I have the EXACT same problems (scary how close all this is to my situation). Would a fungus be visible detectable on the zoas? Would more (direct?) flow solve this?

[LogansRunRx]

Tagging along, as I have the EXACT same problems (scary how close all this is to my situation). Would a fungus be visible detectable on the zoas? Would more (direct?) flow solve this?

that seems to be the root of the discussion above...

i don't really see anything that looks like fungus, but i don't really know what fungus looks like underwater, either???

so if it's detritus and not enough flow and not enough export of nutrients that is causing problems... then we'll see.

 

i dosed the ChemiPure last night and added the air stone into chamber 1

i'll do the 20% water change on Sat PM.

the ChemiPure is obviously a quick, short-term fix.

 

more this weekend.

[Maddevil1]

added the air stone into chamber 1

Why the air stone?

[LogansRunRx]

b/c that's what the ChemiClean directions say to do

[bird]

Couldn't be unnoticed day/nighttime critter(s) might be irritating the zoanthids in the 29?

[GiantBen]

Is the lighting the same in the 40 and 29?

[bird]

I just reread your post, don't know if it applies but I have seen in some of the stores that sell corals that when zoanthids are closed and other corals are open, though they may not be thriving, that there is not enough flow.

Tanks with zoas that are full and open have lots of back and forth flow.

[Dani3d]

dunno about the flow because I have zoanthids and paly living in high and low flow and they are all doing great and growing like weeds.

 

In my tank, flow does not make a bit of difference with my zoa and paly.

 

I just reread your post, don't know if it applies but I have seen in some of the stores that sell corals that when zoanthids are closed and other corals are open, though they may not be thriving, that there is not enough flow.

Tanks with zoas that are full and open have lots of back and forth flow.

[Lawnman]

Well I don't know if I explained it wrong or you read it wrong. Chemi clean is made by Boyd's.Yes your link was correct. I didn't mean for you to dose the whole tank.But it is o.k. I wanted you to take about a quart of tank water out of your tank then add the chemi clean to your container of water. Then place the zoas in the container and swish them around and squirt them with a turkey baster.Let them sit for about 20 minutes. Then rinse the zoas in a different container with tank water and put them back in.Alot of people use Furan 2 which Chemi clean has some of the same chemicals in it. I am not a big fan of dosing my whole tank with a agea/red slime remover.Just because it is a band aid to a bigger problem.I dip zoas in the chemi clean all the time.It helps loosen fungus on the zoas stalks and mats that will keep the zoa/paly closed.You should really take a turkey baster after your lights go out and blast the detrius off your rocks and corals every night or every other.You would be amazed at how much better your corals will look.I have my zoas on the sand bed with a 150 MH.

[LogansRunRx]

Well I don't know if I explained it wrong or you read it wrong. Chemi clean is made by Boyd's.Yes your link was correct. I didn't mean for you to dose the whole tank.But it is o.k. I wanted you to take about a quart of tank water out of your tank then add the chemi clean to your container of water. Then place the zoas in the container and swish them around and squirt them with a turkey baster.Let them sit for about 20 minutes. Then rinse the zoas in a different container with tank water and put them back in.Alot of people use Furan 2 which Chemi clean has some of the same chemicals in it. I am not a big fan of dosing my whole tank with a agea/red slime remover.Just because it is a band aid to a bigger problem.I dip zoas in the chemi clean all the time.It helps loosen fungus on the zoas stalks and mats that will keep the zoa/paly closed.You should really take a turkey baster after your lights go out and blast the detrius off your rocks and corals every night or every other.You would be amazed at how much better your corals will look.I have my zoas on the sand bed with a 150 MH.

no, no...

u explained the method perfectly.

however...

i have taken the zoa frags out of the main tank. and they are now fine and open under a 150w 20k MH in another tank (witout the dip)... although i may dip them anyway.

i however have a zoa colony in the main tank that are firmly attached to a large rock in my main tank. can't pull it out and dip it. in addition to the zoa issues i have noticed some cyano on the sand bed. and it may be a larger issue than is apparent as i think my conch keeps it knocked down.

i'm not the biggest fan of dosing my whole tank either, but if i can use the ChemiClean as a bandaid in the short term and get the tank back to ground zero... then i'll take arms against the larger issue.

i read a lot on various forums and seems the ChemiClean is very safe. so i'm not concerned too much with treating the whole tank.

slated to do the post-treatment water change tonight.

from here to address the possibility of nutrient/organics issues:

i am using a baster and blowing off the rock work and corals.

i am considering upping my flow with an MP10

planning on DIYing a fuge basket out of egg crate for chamber 2 with my media rack (i already have some of underwater lights)

 

so, no Lawnman, you didn't misrepresent yourself at all... and i appreciate the input.

i have just chosen a little different route.

with the frags out of the BC29 and fine and open... i think the issue at hand is a whole-tank issue with the BC29 and not just a zoa pest... as such i need a whole-tank fix. that's what i'll be focused on for the next few weeks.

 

any comments on my logic? flawed?

thanks...

[GiantBen]

You are running stock lights in the BC29 right?

Sounds like they are doing well under the 150W MH and not so under the PCs.

Could that be your answer?

[LogansRunRx]

You are running stock lights in the BC29 right?

Sounds like they are doing well under the 150W MH and not so under the PCs.

Could that be your answer?

yes i'm running stock lighting (with new bulbs).

i don't think it's the lighting as a lot of stock BC29 owners keep zoas just fine.

the colony that is still in the BC29 is in the upper 1/3 of the tank anyway.

if it were too little light, i'd think they'd be wide open and stretching for the lights... and they're doing the complete opposite... and i know they aren't getting too much light.

[nick1912]

wow, this unbelievable!

 

Have you tried the Ferber method? Let your tank do its thing without water changes?

 

Kidding aside. I still have some zoas not opening and when I move them lower or not in direct light they open. Problem is I know whats wrong with my zoas, but for you to still have problems I suggest you pull out the chemical media, add in macro algae and do water changes once biweekly.

 

Its a test to see.

[LogansRunRx]

wow, this unbelievable!

 

Have you tried the Ferber method? Let your tank do its thing without water changes?

 

Kidding aside. I still have some zoas not opening and when I move them lower or not in direct light they open. Problem is I know whats wrong with my zoas, but for you to still have problems I suggest you pull out the chemical media, add in macro algae and do water changes once biweekly.

 

Its a test to see.

well...

the chemical media's been out for a few days.

just finished the ChemiClean treatment and did a 50% water change.

we'll see what happens over the next few days. i do have a fresh bag of carbon in to mop up from the ChemiClean.

am planning on doing the macro thing with a fuge in chamber 2. just haven't had the free time to sit down and get crafty with the egg crate.

thanks for the suggestions.

[LogansRunRx]

so...

was in one of my LFS today.

was pretty slow so had some time to pick the owner's brain.

 

there's something up in the BC29 as the zoa's are fine in another newly established tank.

the new tank does have a different salt in it but i don't think that's a huge issue.

unless the ChemiClean works over the next few days, i'm kinda back to square one.

 

if we're goin down the bacteria/fungus/disease road... then it appears to be isolated to by BC29.

he suggested maybe try UV???

i've been reading and e-window shopping.

just can't decide if i wanna invest $100 on a UV sterilizer as an experiment.

the simplest option looks to be one of the JBJ Submariner units. they come in 5,9 and 13 watt versions. per JBJ's literature the 5w unit is rated up to 40 gallons. but based on what i've been reading that's really underpowered (unless the flow can be adjusted down really, really low -> less powerful UV lamp, the lower flow is necessary for the UV to do it's job). but the highest intensity is only needed to kill off parasites (like ich). so i dunno...

 

anybody got any thought on trying one of the JBJ UV units? experience?

[Weetabix7]

Honestly, I suspect that whatever is going on wouldn't be solved by adding a UV Sterilizer.

That's just what my gut says.

[LogansRunRx]

Honestly, I suspect that whatever is going on wouldn't be solved by adding a UV Sterilizer.

That's just what my gut says.

fair enough... any other suggestions on where to go next then, Weet?

[LogansRunRx]

anbody else wanna weigh in this AM?

[Weetabix7]

fair enough... any other suggestions on where to go next then, Weet?

 

I really wish I did, I honestly do.

We've eliminated pests and disease, low Mg, and water chemistry issues, right?

Those are always the places I suggest to look.

As much as I hate to say it (and I do), you may just have one of those tanks where Zoas don't do well, esp if your other corals are doing fine.

Needreefunds has that problem and it bugs him too, cause he likes Zoas.

[Weetabix7]

The only other thing I can think of, and it's a bit of a longshot, would be to try supplementing with Iodine.

I would normally not recommend messing with this, I'm just mentioning it here because of your circumstances.

You would really need to get an Iodine test kit first because I wouldn't suggest trying it without testing for it.

I'll tell you what, I have a bottle of an Iodide supplement from Seachem that is supposed to be safer to supplement with than Iodine.

If you buy a test kit I'll send it to you free as long as you cover shipping.

It's a full bottle, I won it at a Frag Swap Raffle.

[LogansRunRx]

I really wish I did, I honestly do.

We've eliminated pests and disease, low Mg, and water chemistry issues, right?

Those are always the places I suggest to look.

As much as I hate to say it (and I do), you may just have one of those tanks where Zoas don't do well, esp if your other corals are doing fine.

Needreefunds has that problem and it bugs him too, cause he likes Zoas.

yeah... i'm hoping that's no the case... but we'll see.

i'm gonna repeat all the chem tests tonight or tomorrow.

just been keeping up with dKH and N for the past week.

 

The only other thing I can think of, and it's a bit of a longshot, would be to try supplementing with Iodine.

I would normally not recommend messing with this, I'm just mentioning it here because of your circumstances.

You would really need to get an Iodine test kit first because I wouldn't suggest trying it without testing for it.

I'll tell you what, I have a bottle of an Iodide supplement from Seachem that is supposed to be safer to supplement with than Iodine.

If you buy a test kit I'll send it to you free as long as you cover shipping.

It's a full bottle, I won it at a Frag Swap Raffle.

i do have a RedSea iodine test kit. and i have been supplementing.

i have a bottle of the Kent Iodine supplement (the low concentration, clear stuff). likely similar to the Seachem... thanks for the offer, though. appreciate it!

[Ron99]

I would still suspect a voltage leak. i had a similar problem in that my zaos and SPS were dying while LPS etc seemed alright. Parameters were all normal etc. and checked the tank with a volt meter but measured less than 2 volts. Was really puzzled as nothing seemed o make a difference. Then one day I had a cut on my finger and when I put my hand in the tank the cut was buzzing. So maybe there was low voltage and higher current or maybe for some reason the volt meter was not able to read it correctly?

 

In any case, I traced it to a bad heater. Replaced the heater and added a ground probe and within 12 hours my SPS had polyp extension again and the tank is recovering now. Heaters are often the source of voltage leaks. After that I would suspect submerged pumps and powerhead. Try measuring the voltage again and unplug equipment one at a time to see if it makes a difference to the voltage. If so try replacing that item and consider a ground probe as well.