Osric Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 OK today I bought my first quarantined piece of livestock - a watchman goby. However, I really messed it up - brought him home and we had company so I didn't acclimatize properly. I added water to the bag slowly over the course of about 2 hours, but the bag wasn't floating in the QT - I had it sitting out in a big measuring cup, because my QT isn't set up in a way that makes it convenient to float the bag. Truth be told, I thought about floating it in my display, but foolishly didn't do that. So after all that time, I had only managed to raise the salinity slightly from its original 20 ppt (!!) to about 26 ppt (!!). But I (finally) noticed that I was freezing the poor fish to death - 71F or so - and I added a heater to the bag. Still it was some time before the temp was reading 73.6, and at this point I (foolishly?) decided that the fish must be under so much stress by now that it was about as kind to it to just dump it in the QT, which I did. It's alive, and happy to evade the net. It sure isn't eating (I offered it some frozen cyclops) and not moving either. My QT consists of a bare 10g tank, a piece of live rock from my display, a new aquaclear HOB filter with sponges only, a heater, and a Koralia pump. The pump seems way too powerful for the poor goby, I moved it so that he's not really in the current. Pump on or off he just hangs out in a corner, not moving, looking forlorn (image below): After a few more hours with him still barely moving, I wondered about the parameters and tested, 35ppt salinity, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite. I didn't check temperature but it should be right around 79 (it generally is, maintained by the heater). I wondered about aeration - I didn't have any - so as a workaround I stuck a straw into the aquaclear: which does create bubbles in the filter. So, is there anything I should do besides wait for tomorrow? How do these fish usually look and act in QT? Thanks in advance for advice and flames, Osric Link to comment
Payara Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Not much you can do but wait. Most of my fish rarely eat the first day. Just give him time to adjust to everything. He'll probably bounce back. Oh I really like your aquascaping its very clean. Good luck! Link to comment
becact Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Add some PVC or more pieces of LR (making a cave) to create a hiding place for it. Remove the powerhead, and lower the water level a bit so the return water from the aquaclear falls into the water. That should be plenty of flow. Keep the lights off overnight so he can calm down. Other than that, all you can do is leave him alone and hope he survives! The biggest stress remover is giving him a hiding place, especially with a watchman goby. Link to comment
StevieT Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 wow, this is a mess Why was the slalinity so low? to Acclimate a fish to a tank just float the bag. There are very few fish that need anything more than that. By keeping the bag out of heater water you lowered the temp as you saw. By directly adding a heater to the bag you injected it with a lot of heat all at once. Heaters are designed for flowing water that is not confined to a small volume. your pictures are not working for me so i can not see the fish but it doesn't sound good. You should probably turn off the pump the filter will circulate the water. Next time just foat the bag for about 20 mins, then dump that bag in a net over a sink to catch the fish. Transfer only the fish to the tank, never the bag water. Never try and feed a stressed fish, you are only going to polute the water and it will not eat anyway. You can try and feed a fish a day or more after the transfer, I dont' know why you thought that would make anything better. I hope your YWG makes it. Link to comment
disaster999 Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 general practice for (my anyways) LFS is they lower the salinity to almost 1.009 to kill of any ick they have. generally fish are able to tolerate the low salinity for a period of time (few weeks) any longer will result in organ failure and death (at least this is what i was told) like what people said. i would not do anything dramatic to the tank to further stress him. let him be in the tank. the only reason hes not moving is because hes a goby. they arent like other fish that swims around. they rest on the bottom and scooter around when he feels like it. what i would of done is get your quarantine tank set it up with water, heater and pump. some live rock and sand if you can. dont worry about the cycle. set the salinity to the same as the water he is in and set him free. slowly increase the salinity of the water by taking out 10-20% of the water and replace it with 1.025 mixed water. this way theres 1) less of a shock for the fish interns of salinity, and 2) will remove ammonia and nitrate/rite. continue this everyday until you have either finished the quarantine or the salinity matches to your tank. then add the fish to the tank. i would STRONGLY suggest you go get a lid for the tank and seal off any possible areas that he can escape. YWG likes to jump and will mostly likely jump out of your tank. add an air stone in there if you are afraid of no air exchange. Link to comment
Osric Posted March 30, 2009 Author Share Posted March 30, 2009 Why was the slalinity so low? to Acclimate a fish to a tank just float the bag. There are very few fish that need anything more than that. By keeping the bag out of heater water you lowered the temp as you saw. By directly adding a heater to the bag you injected it with a lot of heat all at once. Heaters are designed for flowing water that is not confined to a small volume.... You should probably turn off the pump the filter will circulate the water. ... Next time just foat the bag for about 20 mins, then dump that bag in a net over a sink to catch the fish. Transfer only the fish to the tank, never the bag water. ... Never try and feed a stressed fish Thanks for your comments. Taking them in order, I do not know why the salinity was so low. Normally, I test the water from the LFS upon arrival at my house to find it lowish, but not crazy - more like 28ppt or so, still a fair bit lower than my water but reasonable for fish only. I always slowly add water to the bag so that the salinity change is gradual, normally while floating the bag in the display (I think not floating was obviously a huge error in retrospect). In your view, even assuming 28ppt -> 35ppt, I should just transfer once temp is equal? I have turned off the Koralia. It is not clear to me whether you agree or disagree with adding a straw to the HOB to get aeration. I just netted the fish to transfer to the tank, haven't generally found the sink necessary - is that lower stress for the fish? Netting the fish in the bag hasn't proven to be a problem so far. I discarded the bag water. The reason I tried to feed him was because I'm not familiar with this species and I was trying to guage how stressed he was. Had he shown any interest at all, I would have been overjoyed, taking this for a good sign. As for polluting the water, I guess time will tell, I fed an extremely small quantity right by him with a turkey baster, I think even though there's only 10g here I hope the quantity was too small to cause any measurable ammonia. I can see I'm making mistakes here - as the subject says, I wish I'd just added him to the display tank where I am more certain of the environment and water parameters. However, QT is supposed to be the way to go and presumably I'd be much happier if I hadn't caused the temp shock. Osric i would STRONGLY suggest you go get a lid for the tank and seal off any possible areas that he can escape. YWG likes to jump and will mostly likely jump out of your tank. add an air stone in there if you are afraid of no air exchange. Thanks for the advice. As the salinity in QT is already 35ppt, and he's already in it, going to just leave it alone this time. I knew that they are jumpers, bought a lid along with the fish and the tank is covered. Air exchange, as I mentioned, is being done by jamming a straw into the aquaclear's intake, creating bubbles in the filter. Osric Add some PVC or more pieces of LR (making a cave) to create a hiding place for it. Remove the powerhead, and lower the water level a bit so the return water from the aquaclear falls into the water. That should be plenty of flow. Keep the lights off overnight so he can calm down. Other than that, all you can do is leave him alone and hope he survives! The biggest stress remover is giving him a hiding place, especially with a watchman goby. Thanks for the advice. Lacking PVC, I took a blue tupperware cup and added it to the QT. I did turn off the koralia, and I have no lights on my QT. I haven't lowered the water level yet, will look at that tomorrow; flow doesn't seem to be a big concern here. I guess I'll be happy if he uses his new hiding place - surprised, too, though. Osric Not much you can do but wait. Most of my fish rarely eat the first day. Just give him time to adjust to everything. He'll probably bounce back. Oh I really like your aquascaping its very clean. Good luck! I sure hope you're right and he bounces back! I'll feel very guilty if not. Osric Link to comment
skydive Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 I read the first post and scanned the rest so sorry if I missed this but I've read that live rock and sand should not be in QT. Link to comment
Osric Posted March 30, 2009 Author Share Posted March 30, 2009 I read the first post and scanned the rest so sorry if I missed this but I've read that live rock and sand should not be in QT. I wanted to have something to get the sponge filter started. Do you have a different suggestion? Osric Link to comment
skydive Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Like mentioned earlier, just a piece of PVC....make sure to rinse it first. That is all Link to comment
disaster999 Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 yeah, its not a good idea to put live rock and sand in there...not sure why i suggested it at first sections of PVC pipe would provide good hiding spots for the fish. Link to comment
Osric Posted March 30, 2009 Author Share Posted March 30, 2009 your pictures are not working for me so i can not see the fish but it doesn't sound good. Somehow I missed this comment the first time, pics fixed. Osric Link to comment
Osric Posted March 30, 2009 Author Share Posted March 30, 2009 So I went down to check on him by flashlight - it's been about 9h - and he has at least moved slightly out of the corner and is resting on the bottom. It's nice to see him moved, even only slightly, and he looks more natural lying on the bottom than he ever did cramming himself into the corner... Osric Link to comment
disaster999 Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 give it some time. im sure he will get use to the environment and start moving about Link to comment
Osric Posted March 31, 2009 Author Share Posted March 31, 2009 give it some time. im sure he will get use to the environment and start moving about Looks like you might be right. I checked on him this morning, and he was looking perkier - his fins were out and he was in a more natural position. When my wife checked on him later, he swam away and hid, which I count as a very good sign :-) Osric Link to comment
Osric Posted April 1, 2009 Author Share Posted April 1, 2009 Well at least he's eating and reacting to movement outside the QT now. I simply have to battle the ammonia level, trying to feed as little as possible but obviously not doing a good job. Hopefully the LR will hurry up and kickstart the sponges in the HOB... I obviously should have set up this QT with a lot more care. Osric Link to comment
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