Might be joining the hobby, looking for discussion

[SaintPhillipz]

Just don't use a skimmer. Its not necessary if you are diligent on weekly waterchanges and don't over feed. On bigger tanks, its very beneficial but on small tanks not really necessary.

 

How big is the tank?

 

Skimmers tend to be loud. I had a remora which was great but it was loud.

 

I use distilled water. On small tanks its easy to purchase water and easy for manual top up.

 

When i had my 55g, lugging big jugs of water was a pain, and lifting them for top up everyday was worse.

Its a 20 gallon long tank- As far as the skimmer hes giving us I have no idea about the brand or anything just that he said when we upgrade it wont be big enough and he called it a "mini" .

 

I think were just going to keep it in the room and run the skimmer when we're awake and just put it on a timer (assuming thats possible) so it wont run that often.

 

Yeah,lugging water around is going to be a pain but since that guy suggested an auto-topper it got me thinking of ways to minimize that using a float, small pump and tube that will go directly into the jug of water or whatever container I use-That way I at least wont have to lift it up and cause splashing and stuff since it should (in theory) keep itself consistently topped off and ill just have to swap jugs as needed. Plus for water changes I can reverse the pump and stick the tube into an empty bucket and pump out what I want, then switch it to mixed saltwater jug and it should just fill itself back up perfectly.

 

Its got me thinking anyhow of the best way to minimize the physical part of it.

[burtbollinger]

beautiful house. remember to top off with NOT salt water.

 

a GOOD auto-top off would be a nice investment when you can...

not sure of those sorts of pumps on skimmers do well with on-off of a timer....might research that. might go no-skimmer vs. running a crappy one. figure out which one youre getting and research and post here.

[Clown79]

Oh lifting my water container for my small tanks is easy. I fill small bottles from 1 large distilled. My 55g was the PITA. Lol.

 

As for using a pump for water change that will work but not if vacuuming sand, it'll just suck up all the sand.

 

Not sure either about timing a skimmer. They often need break in periods, its probably a better idea just not running it.

[Nola Bear]

TBH Craigslist is without a doubt shady, but reefers for the most part are awesome hobbyists. I only look on CL for reef tank stuff. I personally wouldn't buy much else on there because of the inherent dangers. I think you will be really happy with your new tank, and it will be a good primer for getting into the hobby.

 

Good luck, happy reefing

[jtwisconsin]

Just wanted to say that the pond is awesome!

 

Good luck with the new tank!

[ajmckay]

Here's the DIY for the ATO I built. Has some wiring diagrams to get you started.

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/367374-diy-ato-wbackup-pump-saver-30-50-auto-top-off/

[SaintPhillipz]

Here's the DIY for the ATO I built. Has some wiring diagrams to get you started.

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/367374-diy-ato-wbackup-pump-saver-30-50-auto-top-off/

Dude, that brilliant...

 

My wifes going to hate you lol- I'm having way too many crazy thoughts about taking your (very well done btw) diagram and expanding on it- Ill end up with tubes running all over the house , direct to an ROID bucket and direct to mixed salt water with a valve to change between...hell ill put an automated switch -If I could figure out the timing I could automate the water changes and have an output tube leading to the sink- hahahahahah, yup, we dont even know you and my wife is going to hate you =P

 

No seriously thought- Brilliant. This is similar to how we did the pond at my mom and dads-It auto tops on the top pond and also connects into the underground sprinkler system - The main difference (and something i would have never thought of) is that we were drawing from the lake at a depth of 5 feet so we didnt need a second float like I'm going to need doing this with a bucket/tub/tank and you have accounted for

 

Im gunna send my dad your thread and have him look at it- hes a retired engineer from National Steel and really a brilliant guy and I honestly think this is going to be the key to get him into this- I know for sure he had never thought of this with the freshwater tanks because we always manually topped them- I think hes gunna be impressed tbh and if I can get that man into this hobby he will go all in and then i'll get to benefit from the things he figures out and makes- See, I have a master plan hahahahah

[Sunstar]

Hi! Welcome! Sunstar chiming in late!

 

I am not really big on routine, but all in all the maintenance of my fusion 10 isn't tremendously bad. doing a little maintenance once a week or twice a week actually can be enjoyable and quick. If you go too long in between it could become a chore.

 

I have seen sumpped (is that a word?) freshwater tanks before, so I think converting a salt to fresh would not be that difficult. With a sump you probably could have more area to work with for media depending on the fresh water species.

 

I know the whole thing with mind boggling amount of information an LFS to assist in setting up a tank may be worth your while. Just make sure you read reviews of equipment and ensure you get what you want and need and not what they want to sell you.

 

I probably went into the reef world with less information than you have gathered (a friend said here's a tank, here's salt, oh here's some GSP and a light - off you go girl) yep yep yep, those were the days..

[SaintPhillipz]

Well, the tank is here and everyone survived and is thriving- there is a...problem though.

 

The Royal Gramma is a jerk- When we first placed him in the tank (the fish were all chilling in a heated plastic tub while we set it up) he went and curled up sideways in a hole and acted dead- I really thought he was dead because he hadnt moved a bit for hours but suddenly at like 11 pm he came out and was acting really happy, gliding in and out of crevices and holes in the coral and hes been acting really happy and hasnt been hiding or anything since.

 

But he keeps picking on the yellowtail damsel- chasing him, picking on him and being mean. The damsel isnt hurting anyone and is totally peaceful and isnt doing anything to deserve this. A few mins ago the emerald crab came out (he never does) and the Royal gramma went after him too- The only one he doesnt seem to be messing with is the clownfish.

 

Everything ive looked at says the damsel can be aggressive but hes not- This is the gramma.

 

The seller says the fish all get along and theres no injuries on any of them so this is new behavior- Any ideas what i might want to do? This has to stop because the poor damsel is seriously getting scared it I think.

 

EDIT-other than that we LOVE the tank- Its just...Awesome. I also love all 3 fish (and the gramma is gorgeous) but if one has to go its going to be the aggressor- Just hope theres another way.

 

OH, something else really cool- the clown is really friendly and really fearless- I can actually touch him and he lets me, when I put my fingers near the water he comes up and will kind of nuzzle my finger- probably associates it with food but ive never seen anything like it since I can actually touch him and he doesnt mind. The Clownfish is without doubt my favorite.

[SelectedByNature]

Amazing man glad the deal went through and the tank and animals made it!!!!

 

IME give it time before making any impulsive decisions, but clearly your heart is in the right place and sounds like the animals will do well under you!

 

Cheers man and enjoy it, sounds like an awesome setup!

[burtbollinger]

Pics.

[SaintPhillipz]

Pics.

For sure- I'll post some probably tomorrow after I'm finished placing all the live rock...Some of which might die in the process =/

 

I'm building a coral reef 'backing" in a way that the rocks wouldnt balance safely on their own so im drilling small holes and then placing pins in to hold it together... making a ton of caves and small overhangs- trying to anyhow.

 

Should be finished late tonight or early tomorrow and then im going to add a small bit of white gravel and seas shells for the hermit crabs to use when they grow.

 

No casualties at all so far, PH levels goodand my test kit seems to be showing everything is within spec but TBH its really hard to read so I have no idea and will be taking a water sample to the store this week- The heater in here kind of sucks and wont break 74 so I have a space heater set up a few feet from the tank to keep it at 78 but I need a new heater so I dont have to babysit the temp so ill get the water tested then.

 

The gramma is still a jerk and sometimes goes after the damsel but there doesnt appear to be any contact, he just chases him - so, 'm just keeping on eye on things.

 

Thinking of getting an aneminie for my clown too but also not too keen on getting myself stung if I get in the tank.

 

So yeah, as soon as i finish my underwater landscaping I'll post some pics

[burtbollinger]

you know that Alk. is the important parameter, not Ph, right? Don't even bother with Ph, but you need a good Alk. test kit ASAP.

 

go easy on the seashells.

 

get a proper tank heater ASAP, you can't be depending on proper room temp. Kid lost an entire tank last week this way.

 

you need to not be adding anemone to a new, 20g tank. bad idea. skip it....and slow down. you've got more than enough on your plate. urges to add are going to be tremendous. fight them. add nothing. focus on equipment upgrades.

 

don't forget, this fell in your lap very quickly....fight the urge to go fast.

 

looking forward to pics. your care is obvious and it should turn out great

 

here's why you should skip the anemone btw:

 

 

anyway, good job....keep asking questions, and keep posting plans here before you act for feedback.

[JLynn]

Instead of an anemone you should consider a toadstool leather coral. In the absence of an anemone clownfish will sometimes host in these. And they are also nice corals all on their own! Hammer corals are another anemone-substitute, but you said you wanted to do all soft corals, and that's an LPS.

 

And about the gramma, you might want to try taking it out for a day or two (just put it in a cheap plastic drum with some fresh saltwater (you'll need to top it off manually but it's only for a little while) and then reintroducing it in a social acclimation box (those breeder boxes they use in FW aquaria are a good, cheap substitute for the more expensive acrylic ones you typically see in the SW hobby (this is the one I've got, and it works perfectly well). When introducing fish, you usually do it so that the most aggressive fish goes in last, so that the less aggressive fish have time to settle in and stake out their own territories. Then when the more aggressive fish are introduced, they are the newcomers, and don't bully the other fish as much because of it. Keeping the new fish in a social acclimation box for a while also helps reduce incidents of aggression; any fish trying to attack the newcomer will be met with plastic, and once they've worked their aggression out and gotten used to the new fish, you can safely release the new fish.

[burtbollinger]

Instead of an anemone you should consider a toadstool leather coral.

 

And about the gramma, you might want to try taking it out for a day or two

he shouldnt add anything for now. brand new tank to him, brand new hobby...plenty to learn. If and when he does, a small leather would be a decent option. certainly better than an anemone.

 

as for pulling fish....the tank was established before with the same fish, and just removed and reshuffled. Zero need to remove the fish for a day or two if things are settling down.

[debbeach13]

Sounds like things are moving right along. So far so good I agree with Burtbollinger just give every thing some time to settle in and adjust. The move sounds like it went great but it is still a very big deal to the livestock. They need time and that's ok because you need to get used to a schedule caring for every thing. I am so happy for you. Good luck with your tank.

[SaintPhillipz]

Thanks- And man, I had no idea about aneminies getting like that- The guy at the fish store said I should get one and he knows I have a 20 gallon... So much for trust in that expert.

 

Anyhow, a couple pics- I'll post more later once its finished but this is the stopping point for a few days- I know if/when we upgrade im going to go with a 40 gallon breeder and use dead rock and create a coral reef backing all the way to the top from scratch- This one came out well but it would have been a million times better if I could have taken all the time in the world and not having to worry about pinning pieces together and quickly getting it back into the water.

 

I'm only showing the sections that are more or less done, the last (and coolest, imho) section will be finished sometime later.

 

 

 

Hard to really see but theres a ton of cave system and 'houses' , the soft coral is the roof of one of the houses and the cave system mostly hooks together in a bunch of tunnels - really cool to watch the gramma and damsel going in and out of the caves- The clown could care less lol

 

ignore the shells lol, we have a bunch in there so we can test how the different colors and sizes look but theres only going to be a few-a couple big for decoration and small ones so the hermits hopefully spare the snails.

 

 

Thats part of the unfinished area, its going to have a massive cave system that runs all the way across the back plus a bunch of small caves that connect to the other cave system.

 

Anyhow- This has been a blast and Ive gotta say Im loving this thus far.

[JLynn]

he shouldnt add anything for now. brand new tank to him, brand new hobby...plenty to learn. If and when he does, a small leather would be a decent option. certainly better than an anemone.

 

as for pulling fish....the tank was established before with the same fish, and just removed and reshuffled. Zero need to remove the fish for a day or two if things are settling down.

Oh, I'm not saying he should add anything right now. But he was talking about getting an anemone for the clownfish to host in for the future, and I wanted to offer an alternative to anemones.

[burtbollinger]

I'd ensure those shells are clean. Tank looking very nice.

 

And yeah, don't trust that guy. Trust the collective wisdom of multiple posters on these boards. Shows how easy it is to mess up.

 

Also, as you build whatever your planning, do consider not jamming the back wall with stuff that will become a detritus trap. You want plenty of flow and don't want the tank jam packed. You have to be able to clean back there.

Oh, I'm not saying he should add anything right now. But he was talking about getting an anemone for the clownfish to host in for the future, and I wanted to offer an alternative to anemones.

It's a very good alternative

[SaintPhillipz]

I'd ensure those shells are clean. Tank looking very nice.

 

And yeah, don't trust that guy. Trust the collective wisdom of multiple posters on these boards. Shows how easy it is to mess up.

 

Also, as you build whatever your planning, do consider not jamming the back wall with stuff that will become a detritus trap. You want plenty of flow and don't want the tank jam packed. You have to be able to clean back there.

It's a very good alternative

Thanks man!

 

Yeah the shells were in a giant pack that were specifically for aquariums and supposedly all natural-My wife still boiled them though.Hoping one of our hermit crabs change shells soon because they have ugly shells that blend into the rock and it would be nice to see them in good colorful shells.

 

The Detritus is the brown algie correct? I left a space in back for the magnetic cleaner to fit in for the black glass but if you mean the back of the actual rocks I really dont have a plan for that beyond pulling the rock out if needed which is pretty easy in this tank but in a 40 gallon with a reef back- I dont know...Still have months to try and plan that out -

 

What did come to mind thats kind of along the same line is that if something dies in the cave system how will I know and get it out? I suppose nitrate spike would give me a good clue somethings dead (assuming I can ever really read the test kit properly- EDIT- Electric tester is on the agenda because the color matching kind is difficult for me to really read right) ) but how to retrieve the carcass? Thats something i didnt really consider and will be a pain having to pull things apart- That has me thinking about trying to find a way to use clear pvc for caves on my next tank im mentally fantasizing about with a quick disconnect so if something dies I can see it and get it just by disconnecting a part of the cave-

 

Beyond all that the tank is a joy to watch- best $150 ive ever spent- So cool having a mini eco-system to enjoy and we've watched this thing for hours and hours and still finding cool new things or seeing the creatures enjoy their home- And as stupid as it sounds I think the gramma and the damsel are actually happy fish since they love the cave system- If we still are enjoying this even 1/100th as much as we are now in 6 months were going to be putting together a bigger and much nicer tank and probably using this tank for a quarantine because I want more than 3 fish lol- regardless though, this is a dream come true- i actually have my own saltwater tank!

[burtbollinger]

detritus is just a fancy word for poop and dirt.

 

wouldn't worry about dead thing removal that much. common sense will tell you what to do...aka see a body, take it out. if not, dont sweat it so much.

 

yeah, you got a great deal on a tank that is really an ideal learning tank for you...get it humming and perfect for a year or so, then plan a new build with everything you learned...you'll know you like the hobby at that point and will be ready to dedicate some real bucks into a nice system...maybe use those tax return funds to get something really special.

 

an electric Hanna Alkalinity tester would be a great 50 dollar investment asap.

[Clown79]

I agree with burt.

 

At this point add nothing. Keep doing research, get a maintenance routine, start your weekly testing.

 

Alk is really important. I don't test nor chase ph. Alk and ph work together so if alk is good, so is ph. Ph changes throughout the day, its effected by photosynthesis.

 

If you have corals these need testing weekly: alk, ca, mag, nitrate, phosphate.

 

Some digital testers are good, the others have bad accuracy reputations.

Matching colours is a pain but to be honest, testing is a guideline. I wouldn't sweat it. If its in between colours, then your number is in between those numbers.

 

For alk and mag: salifert or red sea

Ca and nitrate: api is fine

Phosphates: salifert

 

Then theres hanna testers.

 

As for anemone. You and your tank are too new for one, the water stability required to keep them happy means a tank thats 6+mnths old.

Anemones move, posing issues of stinging other corals, getting caught in equipment and destroying a whole tank. They also don't always host clowns.

 

I wouldn't always take the advice of the lfs- their aim is to sell and profit.

[burtbollinger]

yeah, its a good reminder that when you walk in the door and the LFS guy is talking about adding an anemone to your tank...know that what you look like at that point is a walking, talking 50 dollar bill. Stone cold...straight business.

 

Here, no one is trying to sell you anything...the agenda is love for the hobby, preventing the preventable, and protecting the animals.

[JLynn]

You got very lucky in getting a nice established tank so that you got to skip the cycling stage. The cycling was so boring I was honest-to-god delighted to see my first diatom bloom! Things only get interesting when you have living critters to watch. And I could watch my tank all day, even though I don't have any fish yet. I totally know what you mean about having a mini-ecosystem.

 

The thing I like so much better about saltwater than freshwater is that you really are building an entire ecosystem from the ground up, beginning with just nutrients and bacteria and ending with fish and corals. You don't really get that experience with freshwater.