Trying to eliminate Palythoa while saving another coral.

[Cnidarious]

Hey guys, in one of my tanks i have a nice rock with a large colony of

Sinularia dura, unfortunately it also has Palythoa button polyps on it.

i`m not very comfortable having palythoa in my Aquarium and i want it gone.

the tank is about 30 gallons. i am quite nervous about possible contact with palytoxin

so i`m not sure what my options are.

 

what should i do about this?

I`ve considered mechanical removal of the polyps with some sort of tool but like i said,

Palytoxin doesn't sound fun so i`m not thrilled about this option. i have small animals in my

house and i don't want to accidentally kill my cats.

 

my second idea is to try and just frag the hell out of my Sinularia and just ditch the rock with polyps

on altogether. i think they would probably handle this okay though i`m still a bit timid about having

sharp things around those button polyps.

 

If i do end up with option B how can one dispose of the rock with polyps on safely?

Thoughts, ideas?

[Clown79]

Many ppl have paly's in their tanks and not encounter issues. Some zoas can have toxins as well.

Precautions are the key. Don't handle them without gloves and even a mask.

 

Always wear gloves when working in the tank regardless. I wear long armpit length gloves.

 

I have a few that i'd like to remove due to where they are but i certainly won't cut them off the rock for obvious reasons.

[Newstead]

Make sure the cats are locked in another room while you are getting rid of the palys. Before I knew about palytoxin I fragged some pale blue/teal ones with one of our dogs at my feet, and within a day he was in the vet ICU. He survived, luckily. I would wear gloves, mask and safety glasses, frag off the sinularia and double bag the rock left with the palys, making sure you place it deep in the trash where no animals could get to it. Never had any problems with zoas, just the one frag of palys. From my reading when our dog was poisoned, the amount of palytoxin varies wildly between different types of palys and zoas, but the pale blue/teal ones always seem to be implicated as the most toxic. JME.

[ReefSafeSolutions]

If you can pull the rock out of water, take the safety precautions and then chisel off the stuff you want to keep and glue those little rock pieces to another rock in your tank. Then take the palys into your LFS for store credit!

[Clown79]

Imo, paly's should not be sold.

Dr's are unaware of palytoxin or how to treat ppl.

 

Most ppl aren't aware of palytoxin and sometimes they are amongst zoas.

 

I got one on a frag, and now i have 4...of course on a rock that can't be moved.

[Cnidarious]

okay so what i`m getting so far is

use protection, maybe use a lab coat too?

ive got one.

 

So i guess the safest option would be to frag the sinularia then?

[basser1]

Try squirting them with kalk paste or Aiptasia X if you have any........

[Cnidarious]

Try squirting them with kalk paste or Aiptasia X if you have any........

i thought about using kalk or an aiptasia killing product.

would that actually eliminate the threat of the Palytoxin though?

or would it linger in the aquarium somehow?

[Clown79]

I thought about aiptasia x on palys, i wasn't sure if the would release palytoxin or not so haven't attempted it myself.

[RIP Sebastian]

Hey guys, in one of my tanks i have a nice rock with a large colony of

Sinularia dura, unfortunately it also has Palythoa button polyps on it.

i`m not very comfortable having palythoa in my Aquarium and i want it gone.

the tank is about 30 gallons. i am quite nervous about possible contact with palytoxin

so i`m not sure what my options are.

 

what should i do about this?

I`ve considered mechanical removal of the polyps with some sort of tool but like i said,

Palytoxin doesn't sound fun so i`m not thrilled about this option. i have small animals in my

house and i don't want to accidentally kill my cats.

 

my second idea is to try and just frag the hell out of my Sinularia and just ditch the rock with polyps

on altogether. i think they would probably handle this okay though i`m still a bit timid about having

sharp things around those button polyps.

 

If i do end up with option B how can one dispose of the rock with polyps on safely?

Thoughts, ideas?

I, too, was concerned about the handling of Zoas/Palys. Today was my first time cutting them. I was able to take them out of the tank and used scissors I knew would not be used for food. After, I thoroughly washed my hands and all utensils I used. No issues so far.

 

Nick

[basser1]

 

Cnidarious, on 26 Nov 2016 - 4:20 PM, said:

i thought about using kalk or an aiptasia killing product.

would that actually eliminate the threat of the Palytoxin though?

or would it linger in the aquarium somehow?

 

 

Clown79, on 26 Nov 2016 - 5:16 PM, said:

I thought about aiptasia x on palys, i wasn't sure if the would release palytoxin or not so haven't attempted it myself.

 

I've used it numerous times. You're not taking the rock out of the tank, so nothing to worry about. I turn off all pumps, apply the aipatsia x and let it set awhile on them. They shrivel up and die.

[Clown79]

Really. It works with paly's?

 

I get overly concerned because i have a very sensitive system, i have to wear gloves in the tank cause my skin itches and goes red.

[blasterman]

If you can remove the rocks with the palys then do so. Scrape the zoas off with an hobby knife, and dispose of the remains is several layers of plastic bags wrapped tight enough where critters can't get at them. Try not to keep the rocks out fro more than 5 minutes at a time so as to not harm beneficial things on the rock via prolonged air exposure.

 

Paly toxin can't penetrate skin. It needs an open wound to get into the blood stream, ingested, or inhaled via boiling. Just cutting palys doesn't make them dangerous in terms of skin exposure. Wear latex / food prep gloves if so inclined.

 

The ones with the highest amounts of palytoxin are the shallow water varities. They mostly have a drab, uniform light / dull green color and grow dense colonies.

 

If you don't want to remove the rock then get an insulin needle and inject them with vinegar.

[Newstead]

Here is a paly colony the CDC studies after members of a family were poisoned in Alaska (they all survived).

 

The article, interesting.

 

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6431a4.htm

[Clown79]

I wear armpit length gloves in my tank now just because the water seems to irritate my skin so I'm safe there.

 

I never touch them. I can't remove the rock they are on or I would.

 

Mine are bright green.

[Cnidarious]

If you can remove the rocks with the palys then do so. Scrape the zoas off with an hobby knife, and dispose of the remains is several layers of plastic bags wrapped tight enough where critters can't get at them. Try not to keep the rocks out fro more than 5 minutes at a time so as to not harm beneficial things on the rock via prolonged air exposure.

 

Paly toxin can't penetrate skin. It needs an open wound to get into the blood stream, ingested, or inhaled via boiling. Just cutting palys doesn't make them dangerous in terms of skin exposure. Wear latex / food prep gloves if so inclined.

 

The ones with the highest amounts of palytoxin are the shallow water varities. They mostly have a drab, uniform light / dull green color and grow dense colonies.

 

If you don't want to remove the rock then get an insulin needle and inject them with vinegar.

 

The ones on my rock are Tan brown around the outside and column and have a greenish disk.

it sounds like i have what you are talking about.

[basser1]

Is this what you have?

 

 

I also had these. I'm not sensitive so I went at them using aiptasia x like I mentioned before. You may have to give a couple treatments from time to time. But they eventually all died.

[Clown79]

Mine are completely green. I started with 1 and its taken a yr to get to 7.

 

The purple/pink have spread a lot more than the green.

 

They are getting closer to my sps, so its time to get a gsme plan on removing them

[Cnidarious]

Is this what you have?

 

 

I also had these. I'm not sensitive so I went at them using aiptasia x like I mentioned before. You may have to give a couple treatments from time to time. But they eventually all died.

Yeah mine look almost identical to that.

[blasterman]

Here is a paly colony the CDC studies after members of a family were poisoned in Alaska (they all survived).

 

The article, interesting.

 

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6431a4.htm

I can cofirm that not only are those palys dangerous to humans but they are significantly toxic to other corals, especially LPS and SPS. I had a 3-3" colony given to me, and after they got 'upset' after being pushed into some xenia by a turbo snail all the SPS and LPS in my tank was dead in 12 hours. Nothing but skeletons.

 

Unfortunately reef stores sell them to beginners for cheap. Butt ugly stuff that needs to be banned from reef trading and importing if you ask me.

Yeah mine look almost identical to that.

 

Those are green implosions. They have not been verified as toxic like the others, but care should still be taken.

 

I consider implosions to be 'weeds'. The won't stay in tight clusters and will randomly appear in spots of your tank not desireable. They don't sting, but will irritate other corals. I got rid of mine with an insulin syringe and vinegar. They did not survive the injection. I'd still prefer to remove the rock and scrape them off with a razor though.

[Mariaface]

Ugh, these guys. Seriously.

 

I had to smother them with epoxy and super glue, and then go back every couple of weeks when one popped up between the layers and the rock. They eventually melt away, and in the meantime you just need to really up your carbon filtration. Aiptasia-X didn't work on my teal ones, though

 

I got tired of them popping back up every couple of months, and just threw out the rocks and got new ones. >>

[Cnidarious]

I can cofirm that not only are those palys dangerous to humans but they are significantly toxic to other corals, especially LPS and SPS. I had a 3-3" colony given to me, and after they got 'upset' after being pushed into some xenia by a turbo snail all the SPS and LPS in my tank was dead in 12 hours. Nothing but skeletons.

 

Unfortunately reef stores sell them to beginners for cheap. Butt ugly stuff that needs to be banned from reef trading and importing if you ask me.

 

Those are green implosions. They have not been verified as toxic like the others, but care should still be taken.

 

I consider implosions to be 'weeds'. The won't stay in tight clusters and will randomly appear in spots of your tank not desireable. They don't sting, but will irritate other corals. I got rid of mine with an insulin syringe and vinegar. They did not survive the injection. I'd still prefer to remove the rock and scrape them off with a razor though.

Interesting, so scraping them off with a razor is doable?

i was thinking about just cutting the sinularia off their rock and ditching the whole works.

[Clown79]

So the teal ones are the worse for toxins.

 

What about the lime paly's?

 

I might try aiptasia.x. i have one near a frogspawn and its getting stung by it.

 

I'd love a new rock but it means destroying my tank.

[R_MC]

Best "in tank" solution is to repeatedly inject them with Vinegar / Lemon Juice / or Kalk slurry. Additionally, palytoxin does not remain active for long outside of the body of the coral. It is quickly neutralized in the water and certainly in air.

 

1. Go to any pharmacy and ask for insulin syringes - they are very cheap.
2. Pour a shot glass of white Vinegar or Lemon Juice and heat it up in a microwave to near boiling.
3. Draw the boiling solution into the syringe and inject the palythoa. It helps if you inject it into the "meat" of the palythoa rather than the "digestive tract". IE don't stick it into the mouth, stick it into the oral disc.
4. Repeat daily until all undesirable palythoa have been eliminated.

 

Another option is to use a pair of scissors and during a water change - cut the heads from the palythoa while syphoning water from the tank. After you've sucked the heads out, wait one day and inject the bases with vinegar as above. This is more effective and will result in less waste in your tank. Palytoxin will be released either way. Wear gloves if you can and do not allow your pets to be in the room while changing the water.

 

That said, I am suspicious of the broad claims of palytoxin poisoning. There are many many other things in our tanks that can cause many of the symptoms people associate with palytoxins. Bacteria is likely the most common culprit. Redness / swelling of any open cuts / red eye after exposure to tank water / potentially nausea or sickness after ingesting water - all of this can be caused by the bacteria in our tanks.

 

IE: Mycobacterium marinum

 

Good luck!

[burtbollinger]

bottom line...i ruined a tank leaving a frag in with ugly green palys on it. Nothing grows faster...they invaded everything...trash reef weeds that cheapen everything they grow on. the sight of those palys turned me off so much, Im thinking my next tank won't even have zoas.

 

I went to war with my palys...even used a mojano wand (it kinda worked) and needlenose pliers...it was a giant, messy pain. and in hindsight, I guess it was a bit dangerous too. Aptasia X didnt work for me, btw.

For as hesitant as you sound about the whole affair, I'd really recommend you do what I wish I would have done: dumped the infected rock and walk away. Realize that scissoring, injecting, etc....its not a clean process, its ugly, nasty work that is time intensive, and involves way too much wet arms and stress.

 

A major lesson I learned with my last tank: NO coral is worth keeping in your tank if there are ugly, invasive palys on it. Trade in the rock with the cabbage leather on it at the LFS for a poly filter or something and walk.