(Discussion) State of the Hobby

[dpoltsdsu]

I was curious as to what people on this forum feel about the state of the hobby right now. Do you feel the hobby is in a good place? I am curious as to what everyone thinks and I believe it could be an interesting discussion.

 

A quick look at a couple aquarium phrases through google trends (which creates graphs based upon search data through its engine) indicates that the hobby has been slowly losing popularity over the last 8 to 10 years or so.

 

For example:

 

 

 

 

I find this a bit disconcerting but I do want to know what others think about where we are at as a hobby right now.

[seabass]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ha ha. Nah, I think it's just fine. There are lots of new vendors, sponsors, MACNA is huge, livestock options have increased...

[squamptonbc]

Where I am in Canada, its lost popularity by a significant amount. Local forums that used to be popular and active places are now ghost towns, most of the local fish stores, especially marine related have closed up shop, and those remaining might be on borrowed time as they have less stock, less variety and don't bring in nearly as much interesting stuff as they used to.

 

I would say there are less options live stock wise today when compared to 2008 and earlier.

 

Speaking with a wholesaler yesterday it seems like a total nightmare to bring in animals these days which likely explains the very limited selection we tend to have, even fish like sea horses can and are difficult to find, and some species like Dwarf Sea Horses are now impossible to find, simply not worth the time/effort/money needed to import them.

 

With stagnant wages and huge increases in cost of living, I don't see the hobby ever going back to pre-2008 levels. My income has gone up 1.75/hr vs 2009, rent in 2008 was 625, now its 1025/month, income that used to go towards hobbies, now goes towards rent.

 

 

Really just depends what country your in, some countries its still very popular, others its become a niche market with some dedicated folks, but still in decline.

[Subsea]

I agree with sponge bob. The hobby is healthy in the US.

 

Government regulation may be a source of some of the problems you described about limited stock in Canada. There are those in US and other countries that would ban the hobby if they could.

[squamptonbc]

Mostly due to lack of demand and small market more then anything else, its very evident the hobby is in decline here n general with closing of stores, vendors and forums and other hobbyist clubs becoming ghost towns and a skeleton of what they once were.

 

But issues with some species like sea horses is due to gov't regulations, CITES and other various acts. Not solely because of the Canadian gov't however.

 

 

It's still here but very much a niche market, and I wouldn't say its growing but may have slowed on the decline, but 2008 vs 2016, a significant and noticeable decline.

 

More likely to get corals now from a hobbyist then from a store, who is just selling overpriced stuff they bought from a hobbyist.

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with sponge bob. The hobby is healthy in the US.

Government regulation may be a source of some of the problems you described about limited stock in Canada. There are those in US and other countries that would ban the hobby if they could.

[PwnMe]

Seems to be doing well in the US. LFS has more frags than ever. More fish than ever. You have all new manufacturers and old manufacturers finally fully embracing technologies like LED lighting. Hope it stays this way for sure.

[dpoltsdsu]

Good points everybody.

 

I think the breeding of marine fish will have a positive effect on the hobby though. The recent break throughs in the breeding of the Blue and Yellow Tang are big in my opinion. It does seem like the forums are not as busy as they once were. However it's hard to tell if forums in general have lost some popularity or if the hobby as a whole is not as active and prosperous as it once was.

[RayWhisperer]

The hobby is only in decline because the economy still sucks. The news may say employment is up, the housing market is up, blah blah blah blah... The true number of jobless people in the US is mind boggling. Those of us lucky enough to be gainfully employed, still face stagnant wages and rising COL, insurance, and all other costs.

 

I've been in this hobby a looooooooong time. Over 30 years now. Between livestock and equipment, it's like living on another planet. Especially in the last 10 years. While CITES may be restricting more livestock. What new, interesting livestock always coming in is astounding. 20 years ago, finding something like a blue stripe pipefish was a dream. Now we can find blue squamossa, or flaming prawn gobies fairly regularly. These are animals nobody even knew about back then. Not to mention, keeping some of these animals alive.... Sea horses were something only the most advanced hobbiest could tackle back then. Now, I see kids in the hobby a year keeping, and sometimes even breeding them.

 

The hobby is going through a lul. It's the entire industry, actually. Freshwater, as well. If the economy ever gets back on track, the hobby will too. Besides, I've never known a person to get involved with something like reef tanks able to give it up, and walk away forever. It's like N-R.com. They may leave, but they always come back.

[squamptonbc]

Forum slow down is probably a mix of both, forums in general seem less popular now, which is a shame as its always fun to interact with others who share an interest.

 

The biggest indicator to me anyhow that the decline is there and not all that small, is the amount of stores that where around 5-6 years ago vs now if the hobby was strong, I would think the stores would not be closing if the hobby was growing.

 

 

Good points everybody.

 

I think the breeding of marine fish will have a positive effect on the hobby though. The recent break throughs in the breeding of the Blue and Yellow Tang are big in my opinion. It does seem like the forums are not as busy as they once were. However it's hard to tell if forums in general have lost some popularity or if the hobby as a whole is not as active and prosperous as it once was.

 

[squamptonbc]

Good point on the economy and cost of living, many just have less money now as wages don't rise fast enough to match the cost of living in things like housing, food, etc and well hobbies are cut first when people have to cut back on expenses,

 

 

The hobby is only in decline because the economy still sucks. The news may say employment is up, the housing market is up, blah blah blah blah... The true number of jobless people in the US is mind boggling. Those of us lucky enough to be gainfully employed, still face stagnant wages and rising COL, insurance, and all other costs.

I've been in this hobby a looooooooong time. Over 30 years now. Between livestock and equipment, it's like living on another planet. Especially in the last 10 years. While CITES may be restricting more livestock. What new, interesting livestock always coming in is astounding. 20 years ago, finding something like a blue stripe pipefish was a dream. Now we can find blue squamossa, or flaming prawn gobies fairly regularly. These are animals nobody even knew about back then. Not to mention, keeping some of these animals alive.... Sea horses were something only the most advanced hobbiest could tackle back then. Now, I see kids in the hobby a year keeping, and sometimes even breeding them.

The hobby is going through a lul. It's the entire industry, actually. Freshwater, as well. If the economy ever gets back on track, the hobby will too. Besides, I've never known a person to get involved with something like reef tanks able to give it up, and walk away forever. It's like N-R.com. They may leave, but they always come back.

[RayWhisperer]

I think most stores closed up due to a combination of reasons. Take the decline in the economy, couple that with rising costs of operation (not to mention shipping costs, which have absolutely skyrocketed.) now factor in the lul in the hobby, due to the economy. If that weren't already enough to force a small lfs to close its doors. Now they have online retailers to compete against (which, let's face it. About 99% of the population will be able to find the same item cheaper online.) Add eBay into the mix, as well as frag swaps and the ever present chop shops people run out of their basements. It's actually a wonder any small lfs' are left.

[ninjamyst]

Super healthy in Chicago and I would guess in most major US cities. In just the past 2 years, 3 new LFS opened up in Chicagoland area. Advances in technology and nano tanks make this hobby a lot easier to get into than 10 years ago. Contrary to RayWhisperer's points, I feel middle class in major cities have more disposable income than before. Maybe it's because I am in tech industry. I do agree that lower income families have been hit hard.

[Odyssey350kc]

I started reefing around 5 years ago, and i feel like it has been on a steady decline since i started, nothing crazy but when i started i had 6 local fish stores that did at least some form of saltwater/coral. Now i'm down to 2. I think the forums have slowed a tad too, but online coral sites and supplies seem to be just as plentiful if not better.

[RayWhisperer]

What new shops in Chicago? Not that I go there often, but I haven't heard of anybody new opening. On the rare occasion I do venture there, it's usually just to go to Old Town. That's the gold standard, when it comes to lfs'.

[ninjamyst]

What new shops in Chicago? Not that I go there often, but I haven't heard of anybody new opening. On the rare occasion I do venture there, it's usually just to go to Old Town. That's the gold standard, when it comes to lfs'.

Seven Seas at Mt. Prospect

Reef Geeks of Chicago at Northbrook

Xzotic Aquatic (reopened and relocated after closing down for a couple of months) at Niles

 

 

I know I am missing one more....can't think of it right now. In total, there are probably around 8-9 LFS in Chicagoland area, not to mention a couple of basement ran shops that rival some of the LFS out there.

 

Some of the newer LFS are much better than Old Town.

[RayWhisperer]

Xotic is the one that used to be in Bensenville, right?

Never heard of Seven Seas.

I thought Reef Geeks was just a rename/relocation of....... Can't think of the name anymore... I always just called it Tony's shop.

[RayWhisperer]

 

Some of the newer LFS are much better than Old Town.

 

That's heresy!

[ninjamyst]

Xotic is the one that used to be in Bensenville, right?

Never heard of Seven Seas.

I thought Reef Geeks was just a rename/relocation of....... Can't think of the name anymore... I always just called it Tony's shop.

Yup, Xzotic used to be in Bensenville. Not sure about Reef Geeks, maybe they just started more advertising this year to get their name out there. Seven Seas opened recently for sure. Brand new store, very clean inside. Chicago area is very saturated with LFS right now. I am surprised they are all staying in business.

 

 

That's heresy!

Reefwise at Lisle is pretty nice. They specialize in the high end stuff. I haven't been to Old Town in a couple of years.

[RayWhisperer]

Meh, Old Town has always been more fish oriented. I never see much there in high end corals. Mostly just the basics. However, Jim always has a few rare fish on hand.

 

I knew about Reefwise. I just never get around to going out there. I think he used to sell on eBay before opening that up.

[ReefWeeds]

I honestly think some of the forums available now (N-R, R2R) probably cut down on some of the repeat internet searches so that may not be a good way to measure the state of the hobby. From what I can tell the breadth of information available on forums has increased significantly over the past 10 years so hobbyists most likely are searching within a forum rather than searching via Google, etc.

[squamptonbc]

That is a good point on stores. The only decent semi-local marine store to me, is also the pioneer of mail order marine supplies in Canada, so they were smart back in the day to embrace the internet, a lot of the other stores never did.

 

No Live Aquaria and type websites here to order from, and even a fairly limited supply of website for frags, so LFS is still the best place for fish, snails etc.

 

 

 

I think most stores closed up due to a combination of reasons. Take the decline in the economy, couple that with rising costs of operation (not to mention shipping costs, which have absolutely skyrocketed.) now factor in the lul in the hobby, due to the economy. If that weren't already enough to force a small lfs to close its doors. Now they have online retailers to compete against (which, let's face it. About 99% of the population will be able to find the same item cheaper online.) Add eBay into the mix, as well as frag swaps and the ever present chop shops people run out of their basements. It's actually a wonder any small lfs' are left.

[Tamberav]

Seven Seas at Mt. Prospect

Reef Geeks of Chicago at Northbrook

Xzotic Aquatic (reopened and relocated after closing down for a couple of months) at Niles

 

 

I know I am missing one more....can't think of it right now. In total, there are probably around 8-9 LFS in Chicagoland area, not to mention a couple of basement ran shops that rival some of the LFS out there.

 

Some of the newer LFS are much better than Old Town.

 

ooo... of all the shops in chicago, you recommend any gems? I just moved to Milwaukee area and will be sure to check it out down there sometime soon.

[PwnMe]

Several new LFS in Pittsburgh too. Must be a pretty good situation where I live given the doom and gloom in the rest of this thread. Message boards just aren't as popular. There's reef keeping subreddits. All questions can be answered by google if you try.

[Christopher Marks]

Great discussion in here. I want to add that we're in the middle of the summer currently, the forums and the hobby as a whole are always a little slower this time of year while kids are out of school, people are outdoors enjoying nice weather, and also on vacations.

[cruiZe]

Good points. I've had 1 LFS close in the last few years but the other 2 are still running. Mail order has killed so many little businesses but the fact that we need next day air ($$$) on livestock I think helps keep local places alive. Although I will admit I never buy hardware or dry goods there because of the price (not nice of me, but I'm cheap)

 

Example is I'm looking for a Yellow Coris Wrasse, called my LFS saturday and they put me on the list for next order. I'm not paying $70 to have a fish shipped to me. But I know me buying 1 fish @ $25 every few months won't keep their doors open.

 

This forum really motivates me, but also discourages me cuz my tank can't have sweet colors like "everyone else" lol