A bit stumped and local reef store stumped too

[Nanofrau]

So we started our 10 IM Nuvo a little over a month ago. We didn't need to do a full cycle because we basically did a hot transfer from another system. But our readings were good at week one and we added a couple of snails. Two weeks into it we added our first fish, a masked goby and our urchin and peppermint shrimp. Then the next week we added a fire fish and the third week we added our clown. Everything had been going fine. We were working with 10lbs of live rock and just carbon for filtration in the sock. There was a mushroom on one of the rocks and a green candy cane, both did well. We were doing weekly water changes with prepared saltwater from our LFS. Salinity was good as well as all other parameters from the beginning. Lighting in an AI Prime.

 

We caught the aquarium bug again and decided to upgrade to a 20 instead. We transferred everything over and added GFO in a reactor, upgraded our heater, added some more flow with a koralia, and since this tank has a second filter area, we added chemi-pure to it. We have not added any additional rock yet. We rehomed the goby and fire fish and bought another clown instead. Transferred all our water, filter, etc and topped off with the prepared seawater.

 

So our 20 gal tank currently has

 

2 ocillaris clowns

1 peppermint shrimp

1 tuxedo urchin

10 assorted snails

10lbs live rock

Feeding Frozen mysis shrimp every other day (will change to LRS when this is gone)

 

Have had this set up for a week. We went in to have the water tested and we have 5 for nitrates and .25 for nitrites. Is this a mini cycle that we're going through, or are we doing something that we don't realize? Everything had been nice and stable until we upgraded.

[Formula462]

Anytime you start a tank and break it down and move it whether it be ten feet or a hundred miles, you run the risk of bacteria die off/ propagation bloom. When you do it on such a young tank, cycled from another or started fresh, I feel the risk of something happening like that goes way up.

[Nanofrau]

Shouldn't we see some ammonia levels then? Just seems odd. We had 2 Astraea snails die, but I thought it was our urchin. He kept carrying them around upside down.

 

We went out and purchased our own testing kit this evening to see if we get equal results. They had our salinity off a bit too when we had tested with our refractometer this morning and it read just fine. We recalibrated when we came home and tested again and received the same reading we had in the morning.

[jack1978]

Shouldn't we see some ammonia levels then? Just seems odd. We had 2 Astraea snails die, but I thought it was our urchin. He kept carrying them around upside down.

We went out and purchased our own testing kit this evening to see if we get equal results. They had our salinity off a bit too when we had tested with our refractometer this morning and it read just fine. We recalibrated when we came home and tested again and received the same reading we had in the morning.

What's your salinity testing at?

[Nanofrau]

1.025 is what we are getting. They read it at 1.020

[jack1978]

1.025 is what we are getting. They read it at 1.020

That's a big difference. What are they usinhbtontest it with?

[Nanofrau]

I believe it's the same brand refractometer that we have, actually. We are going to take ours in this weekend and check them side by side.

[brandon429]

This will help

http://reef2reef.com/threads/new-tank-cycling-tank-bacteria-and-cocktail-shrimp-live-rock-no-shrimp.214618/

 

in honing that thread, the test is link it to any cycling question and see if anything has to be edited in the thread to have pre described all cycling events. We are wanting something universally applicable to all cycles, all questions of variance.

A poster here named fishgirl123 made multiple, ten page nitrite Api threads and we detailed her issues endlessly but no need to search out those threads, it's easier to just disregard the readings you see altogether. If you were testing for a critical param we could try salifert. If salifert shows you have a little nitrite, it still doesn't matter. Nitrite is the single least important test kit in reefing.

 

 

Rest easy and continue imo, congrats on the hot start

 

The levels reported indicate test brand Api, that's mentioned first paragraph. Even if the reading is right, there's no impact only ammonia matters, case closed. I'm sure if I bothered testing for nitrite, there's some in my deep sand bed before its rinsed clean. Stages of decay and oxidation completion have a nitrite phase, and can be up welled and measured at times in any tank, but it just doesn't matter given the details in that link.

 

usually the hot start w be blamed for anything that happens later, even if the reading is wrong or doesn't matter. I think 99% of that thread applies to the last two events you mentioned for your tank...if not, I'll edit and catch up.

[brandon429]

The list of what causes brief seeming nitrite spikes is lengthy, and includes

 

Disturbing any detritus pockets during cleaning, exposing various conditions based on the variables within the waste pocket

 

Meniscus variances in the testing, api relies massively on reagent handling, shaking, amounts, timing, and its colorimetric against a gradient chart so subjectivity rules and we are needing trace level detail

 

 

The doser 'prime' directly causes false nitrite positives

 

Even if none of those apply, more can be searched so it saves a massive headache to toss that test kit, and only use a salifert ammonia if cycle verification is ever needed.

 

 

To cycle any reef tank any combination of rocks and sand, only the ability to process ammonia matters. Given a forty day known submersion time for the major substrates (from a prior aquarium does not matter as hot starters know) and the ability to process ammonia, nitrite doesn't matter so we can eliminate it. Nitrate also doesn't matter, since it will be produced 100% of the time when the ammonia digestion tests pass, and nitrate testing also adds error steps that seem to hold up some cycles (so we dont use it in my threads) and we have effectively distilled all cycling down to one parameter, ammonia, a known time frame, and all the visual cues we can use to skip a cycle altogether (your hot start). Cycling simplified.

[Nanofrau]

Well crap. Thanks for the read, I think I know what happened now. So when we changed our tank from the 10 to 20, we didn't have enough space to keep our LR submerged (we did bring it home initially submerged). It wasn't out long, and did remain very wet, but some die off may have occurred. I am not seeing the tiny feather dusters anymore, although we do still have a 4inch bristle worm and several ball anemones. Also, we normally don't dump the water from the LFS into our tank when we add a new fish, but did this time. We found out that they medicate their tanks. So, that sounds like what might have added to killing some of our good bacteria. Ugh. Well, you live and learn, I suppose. The fish look fine and the mushroom is nice and happy, so things are probably not too bad, but we will know to be more careful next time.

 

Thanks again for the info. My husband and I were just talking today about how vendors transport and set up for a show since we have one coming up this weekend.

[brandon429]

Hey neat timing! I'd have to drive four hours to get to Dallas to catch shows there, it's my closest location. Based on your description of alternate animals still being out/ opened...no rapid breathing by fish etc I think you'll be fine


The fanworms may open up again if there were good numbers

If any bac were lost we tend to deal with abundant surface area, live sand creating quite a safety buffer, rebounds new populations fast. Any of those insults above would only have brief effects if any, I bet your system is good to go.

I cannot think of anytime an insult will cause only nitrite and not ammonia, I think all your bac remained ok. getting a medication to do only that would take wow engineering, but physical factors that affected all types of bacteria equally?> nope this is just a disregard scenario.

[Laybackk]

I would say try to reduce feeding... no need to feed every other day. especially frozen food. Remember, the more you feed nemo and friends, the more they poop... and too much poop is bad.