DO I NEED TO PANIC

[Big daz]

So after setting my tank up on Wednesday night (first sw tank) I put my rock in and let every thing settle but under closer inspection I have found this

 

 

Any help would be most appreciated as I really don't now

 

Thanks daz

Oh I don't now why it has put it up that way sorry

[rturiak]

That's aptasia. If you only have one, remove the rock it's on and super glue over it. Keep an eye for others to appear

[Mariaface]

It's new rock; I'd bet on there being more. Go ahead and epoxy/superglue over this one (both, both is good, put the cyanoacrylate on the epoxy and just mash it on there once the thing's retracted), but keep in mind that there are probably others waiting their turn. Once your rock has settled, you'll be able to decide which route you'd like to take.

 

For me, peppermint shrimp did the trick. For others, it's bad enough to warrant berghia nudibranches. Others like them, others get filefish, aiptasia-X works for some; etc etc. There are so many threads!

 

Good luck!

[Big daz]

Thank you for your fast replys

 

And I have just been doing a little googling and people are saying remove the rock and add boiling water ???

 

The rock was live from my lfs as I only set up on Wednesday

[lobster876]

DONT BOIL IT INSIDE many people have nearly died from boiling live rock so at least do it outside

[outerorbiter]

When I worked at lfs in high school I always told the customers I didn't like to boil some live rock. ? just kidding! Just glue over it or some epoxy. That will be fast and sure to work.

[ajmckay]

DONT BOIL IT INSIDE many people have nearly died from boiling live rock so at least do it outside

Not sure "many" people have nearly died... There's a guy who wrote about his experience in Advanced Aquarist which is widely publicized but in my searching one of the very few incidents. Actually it was never proven that the cause was palytoxin at all.

 

Still, it's good to make note of these kinds of things (in proper context) to possibly prevent someone accidentally boiling a rock with palys that contain sufficient concentrations of paly toxin because there's no doubting the potency of the toxins in certain species. I have to think that eventually there will be some more data on this (from a lab hopefully).

 

Superglue works, but can be a bit of a pain to take the rock out. It also depends on how porous your rock is. I've used superglue to seal up a hole one was sticking out of but then a day or 2 later it just found another hole to poke out of... If you have denser rock escape may not be a possibility.

 

As for the boiling recommendation, it's an option but you don't need to take the rock out. An effective method for aiptasia/majano/pest anemones that are larger is to get a small (1-5 ml) hypodermic syringe ($0.25 cents at a pharmacy) and fill it with boiling water or better yet boiling lemon juice/vinegar. Stick the needle into the anemone's base and inject some into it. I've taken care of several permanently using this method. It's very targeted and shouldn't harm anything in the vicinity.

 

You could take the rock out and pour boiling water over it but that seems like a bit of overkill considering your current situation and the boiling water contacting a larger area of the rock will also damage other organisms, bacteria, and algae most likely. So I would try as targeted approach as possible for the first try.

 

For tiny ones super glue could work (hard to stab the small ones) as does a peppermint shrimp in some cases.

[Hammerstone]

I wouldn't boil a rock on your house just to be careful.

[Tamberav]

 

 

An effective method for aiptasia/majano/pest anemones that are larger is to get a small (1-5 ml) hypodermic syringe ($0.25 cents at a pharmacy) and fill it with boiling water or better yet boiling lemon juice/vinegar.

 

 

 

This is what I do and it kills them good. I use boiling water and I don't even bother with a needle (I have no idea how you stick one, mine just retreat into the rock, too hard imo!). I just sneak up on them and drown them and their hole with boiling water in a syringe like a squirt gun of death. Be sure no curious fish/shrimp, ect get in the way.

[MLS_Reef]

I do it the normal way.. I buy a 12 dollar bottle of aiptasia x and follow the directions

[TFish77]

Not sure "many" people have nearly died... There's a guy who wrote about his experience in Advanced Aquarist which is widely publicized but in my searching one of the very few incidents. Actually it was never proven that the cause was palytoxin at all.

 

Still, it's good to make note of these kinds of things (in proper context) to possibly prevent someone accidentally boiling a rock with palys that contain sufficient concentrations of paly toxin because there's no doubting the potency of the toxins in certain species. I have to think that eventually there will be some more data on this (from a lab hopefully).

 

Superglue works, but can be a bit of a pain to take the rock out. It also depends on how porous your rock is. I've used superglue to seal up a hole one was sticking out of but then a day or 2 later it just found another hole to poke out of... If you have denser rock escape may not be a possibility.

 

As for the boiling recommendation, it's an option but you don't need to take the rock out. An effective method for aiptasia/majano/pest anemones that are larger is to get a small (1-5 ml) hypodermic syringe ($0.25 cents at a pharmacy) and fill it with boiling water or better yet boiling lemon juice/vinegar. Stick the needle into the anemone's base and inject some into it. I've taken care of several permanently using this method. It's very targeted and shouldn't harm anything in the vicinity.

 

You could take the rock out and pour boiling water over it but that seems like a bit of overkill considering your current situation and the boiling water contacting a larger area of the rock will also damage other organisms, bacteria, and algae most likely. So I would try as targeted approach as possible for the first try.

 

For tiny ones super glue could work (hard to stab the small ones) as does a peppermint shrimp in some cases.

 

He nearly died from trying to boil unwanted palys from his rock. Paly toxin is one of the most deadly known to man.

 

Please just use aiptasia x, peppermint shrimp, or filefish.

[Sunstar]

I used lemon juice injected into the aptasia and peppermints.

[ajmckay]

 

He nearly died from trying to boil unwanted palys from his rock. Paly toxin is one of the most deadly known to man.

 

Please just use aiptasia x, peppermint shrimp, or filefish.

 

Please don't misunderstand me - I'm in no way saying anyone should boil their rocks. Aiptasia X has a widespread reputation of being an effective method for removing nuisance anemones.

 

My fault with the palytoxin issue is that a lot of statements are not fact checked. We know it's toxic but we don't yet know that much more about it. The Advanced Aquarist/reef central blog is written decently enough but in the end it's never proven that boiling his live rock was the source of his issues. He could have touched it and rubbed his eyes or touched his food, etc... He states that blood samples were taken but never says whether there were even palytoxins in their blood. So all we can really say for sure is that he thinks that palytoxin is the cause. He didn't even confirm that there were palys on the rocks. Who knows, maybe there was a meth lab next door and they were venting fumes into that guys open window all day? I'm not trying to discredit him or anyone else just point out that no test results were posted - all we get is anecdotal evidence.

 

Out of the few cases I found there is at least 1 case where 3 people were suspected of having palytoxin exposure where no rock was boiled. Interestingly a fourth person showed no symptoms.

 

So do we really know what the link is between palytoxin and the effects of inhalation/exposure? I don't. It's all just forum and blog accounts. I'm not saying it's unhelpful (hey it's the best thing we've got until someone can run some actual controlled experiments and come up with handling/exposure guidelines!) but I am saying that a cautionary statement such as "never ever boil live rock" should come with some additional explanation or a suggestion to research further. Palytoxin is no doubt nasty stuff - we need to work toward developing accurate and safe handling guidelines.

[Sunstar]

It is probably safe to presume that boiling the rock could be problematic.

 

I know when I cook hot peppers the oils get into the air and can affect my husband quite distant away from the kitchen.

 

Similar can happen with poison ivy when burned - but those are carried in volatile oils.

 

When it comes to my paly or zoas I would be careful - extremely careful .

[TFish77]

 

Please don't misunderstand me - I'm in no way saying anyone should boil their rocks. Aiptasia X has a widespread reputation of being an effective method for removing nuisance anemones.

 

My fault with the palytoxin issue is that a lot of statements are not fact checked. We know it's toxic but we don't yet know that much more about it. The Advanced Aquarist/reef central blog is written decently enough but in the end it's never proven that boiling his live rock was the source of his issues. He could have touched it and rubbed his eyes or touched his food, etc... He states that blood samples were taken but never says whether there were even palytoxins in their blood. So all we can really say for sure is that he thinks that palytoxin is the cause. He didn't even confirm that there were palys on the rocks. Who knows, maybe there was a meth lab next door and they were venting fumes into that guys open window all day? I'm not trying to discredit him or anyone else just point out that no test results were posted - all we get is anecdotal evidence.

 

Out of the few cases I found there is at least 1 case where 3 people were suspected of having palytoxin exposure where no rock was boiled. Interestingly a fourth person showed no symptoms.

 

So do we really know what the link is between palytoxin and the effects of inhalation/exposure? I don't. It's all just forum and blog accounts. I'm not saying it's unhelpful (hey it's the best thing we've got until someone can run some actual controlled experiments and come up with handling/exposure guidelines!) but I am saying that a cautionary statement such as "never ever boil live rock" should come with some additional explanation or a suggestion to research further. Palytoxin is no doubt nasty stuff - we need to work toward developing accurate and safe handling guidelines.

 

**Read bottom disclaimer first please**

 

I may have read a different article than you. In the one I saw the guy clearly stated he was trying to get rid of Texas Trash Palys. His whole reason for boiling the rock was to get rid of said palys. Inhalation of the toxin is what caused the issue. Occam's Razor.

 

It is pretty much a known fact now a days that paly toxin is one of the most deadliest known to man. Yes you get people stating that they have eaten, inhaled, ingested, whatever paly toxin and never been affected. In my mind its kinda like the people who swear up and down you can maintain a successful reef with treated tap water. Yes it may be true in some situations but to even slightly recommend it to others in my opinion is irresponsible to all reefers in general.

 

You're right though. Paly toxin may only effect certain people. It may be an alergric reaction to certain chemicals found in the palys themselves that are only released on agitation. Either way I highly object to your statement that paly toxin in general was not the cause of the man from R2R's illness.

 

I am open to others opinions when it comes to an ever evolving hobby but when it comes to something I have not only read about on forums but experienced first hand I don't mess around.

 

To get even more specific there is still not a clear understanding on the actual difference between a palythoa and a zoanthid so who knows if one is more toxic than the other. All I know is that I have had first hand experience with being poisoned from a trash paly and it may not kill you but it sure as hell will make you wish you were dead. All I am trying to do is protect other reefers from a similar mistake.

 

 

***Just my opinion AJ. We all have ours in this hobby :-). No disrespect***

[masterbuilder]

Relax....its just an aiptasia. Its one of the many things, some unwanted, that will show up in your tank over the next several months. Just cover it with superglue gel. Keep an eye out for others that MAY appear. At this point there is no reason to do anything else. If you start to see more than one or two others then removing the rock or treating it with something like aiptasia x may be necessary. If your overly freaked out you can always just throw away the rock and get a replacement, cost the same as the many chemical treatments out there that are minimally effective anyway. Again, dont panic. Glue it and enjoy the journey.

 

Mark

 

p.s. IMO...a peppermint shrimp is a "hail mary" type of thing. Some will do the job, others wont. All peppermint shrimp will eventually become your main problem and you will be asking how to get rid if it. They are the devil.

[Tamberav]

I don't think anyone is saying to boil the entire rock. Squirting boiling water directly at an aptasia is different than boiling the entire rock (which would be pointless as it would kill everything).

 

If it just a few aptasia, I wouldn't add peppermint shrimp either, they may not eat them and can cause other problems. Pick at corals, steal food, ect. If it's just 1 aptasia, why go so nuclear? lol

[Big daz]

Thank you every one for you different suggestions I have ordered some aptasia X for future use

 

And done some more searching also a trip to my lfs and with the immediate issue I've been as its only on a small section it makes sense to put that rock into some cold tap water for a couple of weeks and as I have only just started cycling the tank I won't miss the rock

 

But thank you all again it has put my mind at rest mowing there is a couple of things I can do

[Sharbuckle]

I had two aiptasia come in on some xenia i bought from a local reefer. Bought a peppermint shrimp. Aiptasi was gone next day.

[Big daz]

I think I've managed to out mine by removing at small section of rock fingers crossed

[ballz739]

I've had aiptasia but it never spread... maybe my tank wasn't dirty enough

[gulfsurfer101]

The biggest problem I see with boiling rock is that steam inside get trapped with no escape. The rock becomes pressurised then explodes sending both rock and boiling water everywhere. I buy zoas all the time with aptasia in tow. I get a needle and fill it with hydrogen peroxide and seperate the zoas into a bowl of tank water. I then inject the aptasia till it bubbles up and snots off the rock. If it hides I'll let it sit in there till it comes back out then I'll hit it again. I never seen them survive a second injection.

[Tamberav]

The biggest problem I see with boiling rock is that steam inside get trapped with no escape. The rock becomes pressurised then explodes sending both rock and boiling water everywhere. I buy zoas all the time with aptasia in tow. I get a needle and fill it with hydrogen peroxide and seperate the zoas into a bowl of tank water. I then inject the aptasia till it bubbles up and snots off the rock. If it hides I'll let it sit in there till it comes back out then I'll hit it again. I never seen them survive a second injection.

 

I was watching some food show on netflix, where they go to places/restaurants with odd things on the menu. One was where they took live rock from the ocean and cooked/boiled it and had it as a soup base. Cooked little hitchhiker crabs ect...

 

I kept thinking of the bristle worms..... egh...

[gulfsurfer101]

I've seen flat ground rocks explode from guys heat treating pipes on the ground without wrapping it in the proper isulation. The ceramic gets heated and as it lays flat on the ground any rock directly underneath it becomes a possible projectile.

[Newstead]

Not sure "many" people have nearly died... There's a guy who wrote about his experience in Advanced Aquarist which is widely publicized but in my searching one of the very few incidents. Actually it was never proven that the cause was palytoxin at all.

 

Still, it's good to make note of these kinds of things (in proper context) to possibly prevent someone accidentally boiling a rock with palys that contain sufficient concentrations of paly toxin because there's no doubting the potency of the toxins in certain species. I have to think that eventually there will be some more data on this (from a lab hopefully).

 

 

Just for information, google CDC and palytoxin. They released a paper on it last August after investigating a family poisoned by inhalation (they all survived). I ran across it last October when one of our dogs was in ICU for a week due to an unknown toxin. He survived too, thankfully, $4000 later ;-). I haven't posted about it because we could not be 100% certain that was what happened, but the day before he became ill I was fragging some no name teal palys and he was laying at my feet on a towel that was catching the water dripping (I am messy). The vet specialists ran myriad tests and ruled out the usual canine poisoning/infectious suspects - mushrooms, antifreeze, tickborne diseases, cancer, etc. We went over the house and yard and came up empty. Then I finally remembered the palys and started researching. The vet said it was definitely a possibilty after she read the CDC report due to his wbc and recovery. Can I say for sure it was palytoxin? No, but I came home from that visit and removed the palys and zoas in my tank. Overreaction, probably, at least the zoas, but with dogs and a grandbaby in the den around the tanks, I just felt better. Will probably get zoas again after doing more research, but no palys here ... just for what it is worth. I had no idea that some palys were that dangerous.