Can you connect a canister filter to a dual reactor?

[iammrhappy123]

Id like to use a canister filter as the pump to get water to the dual reactor (gfo/carbon)

 

 

In the canister would be just filter floss or maybe nothing. Not sure yet.

 

 

Proposed idea:

 

Tank -> Canister filter -> GFO -> Tank

 

Is this possible?

 

 

Thanks

[Bingo1213]

Depending on how powerful the pump in the canister filter is yes. But he aware that canisters are often nitrate factories. Even empty you'd want to clean out ditritus atleast once a week if not more. You'd be better off with a cheap Maxijet.

[jedimasterben]

Keep in mind as the media in the canister and reactor fills with detritus, flow will slow significantly and you'll need to adjust the flow higher in between cleanings.

[hey]

would work but it would be hard to estimate the canister size, its amazing how much you can bog down the flowrate of a canister filter depending on media chosen. Adding 2 reactors of media in line with one is going to really bog it down and if you undersize it you could end up with a trickle of flow. there are canister filters with external pumps you can choose the pump size you attach to it. I would opt for one of those in this scenario just because you could could go oversize and dial flow in with a ball valve after the reactors and allow for more flow as detritus builds up.

[iammrhappy123]

would work but it would be hard to estimate the canister size, its amazing how much you can bog down the flowrate of a canister filter depending on media chosen. Adding 2 reactors of media in line with one is going to really bog it down and if you undersize it you could end up with a trickle of flow. there are canister filters with external pumps you can choose the pump size you attach to it. I would opt for one of those in this scenario just because you could could go oversize and dial flow in with a ball valve after the reactors and allow for more flow as detritus builds up.

Yes! That's what I was thinking. I'm probably going to make my own canister filter with a 5 gallon bucket and then use your idea of using a LARGE gallon per hour pump and attach it inline with the dual reactor.

 

 

What do you think of this idea?

 

I feel like the 5 gallon canister is basically a sump. I'm not sure which way to go with this at this point. I'm sumpless on a 12 gallon long with just 2 HOB AC 50's and live sand/rock.

Keep in mind as the media in the canister and reactor fills with detritus, flow will slow significantly and you'll need to adjust the flow higher in between cleanings.

True. I'm most likely going to DIY it and make my own canister with an oversized pump. Maybe 400 gph? I have a 12 gallon long. Maybe thats overkill lol but I can just adjust it.

[Halo_003]

I think you're best bet is an actual sump. I have a 12G long as well. I have 2 lily pipe drains and 2 lily pipe returns. I set up my loop with 3 of the RODI style canisters, one with floss, one with carbon & more floss, one with biopellets, then that line returns. The other line is just a return straight from the pump. It's a slick setup, but a sump would be easier. With the 500GPH biopellets wouldn't even tumble slightly since the 500GPH is split between the two returns. I got the Sicce Pro 1000 and it tumbles nicely now, but my setup isn't really the easiest or cheapest way.

[hey]

5 gallon diy canisters sound like a good idea until you see people testing them on youtube, then they look terrifying. check out the ocean clear line of filters http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3579+3662&pcatid=3662 for an example of a heavier duty one.

[Partially Submerged]

nitrate factories.

 

I don't believe in the nitrate factory story. This makes it sound like filters create nitrate out of nothing, which is impossible. If there is a lot of nitrate in the water, it's not the filter's fault.

[Speaker73]

 

I don't believe in the nitrate factory story. This makes it sound like filters create nitrate out of nothing, which is impossible. If there is a lot of nitrate in the water, it's not the filter's fault.

 

 

I was wondering about this as well. If you left the water in the tank without a canister filter wouldn't the ammonia break down from to nitrite then nitrate anyway? And isn't the live rock supposed to break that down in a "normal tank". I guess if the detritus is caught in the canister filter and not removed it could contribute to an increase in nitrate if you assume that with your water changes you remove the solid waste in your system as well before it can break down.

[Benny314]

The nitrate factory branding comes from lack of proper maintenance/laziness of the operator. The same with bio balls, sponges and the like. Dirt from the tank (fish poo, uneaten food and other waste) gets caught in the media or the low flow dead spots in the bottom of canisters and accumulates creating more and more nitrate as it brakes down.

The solution is regular (biweekly for example) cleaning of the media in old tank water to wash the dirt out, proper scrubbing of the corners of the canister and it's trays to prevent build up there. However this is very time consuming and generally a PITA so eventually anyone using such filters and media slack off the maintenance routine and then get plagued with issues.

As for using it as a feed for a reactor, as everyone else has pointed out, I think you'll struggle to keep a constant flow through your reactor media. This isn't the end of the world, but will eventually get on your nerves.

[Bingo1213]

The nitrate factory branding comes from lack of proper maintenance/laziness of the operator. The same with bio balls, sponges and the like. Dirt from the tank (fish poo, uneaten food and other waste) gets caught in the media or the low flow dead spots in the bottom of canisters and accumulates creating more and more nitrate as it brakes down.

The solution is regular (biweekly for example) cleaning of the media in old tank water to wash the dirt out, proper scrubbing of the corners of the canister and it's trays to prevent build up there. However this is very time consuming and generally a PITA so eventually anyone using such filters and media slack off the maintenance routine and then get plagued with issues.

As for using it as a feed for a reactor, as everyone else has pointed out, I think you'll struggle to keep a constant flow through your reactor media. This isn't the end of the world, but will eventually get on your nerves.

Took the words outta my mouth!

[iammrhappy123]

I think you're best bet is an actual sump. I have a 12G long as well. I have 2 lily pipe drains and 2 lily pipe returns. I set up my loop with 3 of the RODI style canisters, one with floss, one with carbon & more floss, one with biopellets, then that line returns. The other line is just a return straight from the pump. It's a slick setup, but a sump would be easier. With the 500GPH biopellets wouldn't even tumble slightly since the 500GPH is split between the two returns. I got the Sicce Pro 1000 and it tumbles nicely now, but my setup isn't really the easiest or cheapest way.

Do you have a picture of your plumbing?

 

Im very curious about your set up. Ive never researched how sump plumbing works nor do I know how the dual drains and dual returns work. Do your two lily drains, drain into the sump. Then one pumps through the RODI canisters, then the other pump is just for flow?

 

This is how im imagining your set up:

 

2 drains -> into sump -> pump from sump to RODI canisters ->return to tank

->same pump-> split line straight to tank (for flow im assuming?)

 

 

 

I think if I have a sump, im going to run a separate pump for the RODI canisters that takes sump water, pushes it through the canisters and then dump it back into the sump.

 

Then have a eheim 1260 as the main return pump.

 

I also want to have dual returns and dual drains. So ill split the eheim return with a Y.

 

Im too nervous about drilling my 12 gallon long, so I think ill go your route and have lilys.

 

Is your set up pretty quiet? Hows the flow with the lily drains? I hear to have max flow with the return pump and eliminate gurgling sounds, a T set up at both drains is needed.

 

Thanks!

[pntbll687]

The nitrate factory branding comes from lack of proper maintenance/laziness of the operator. The same with bio balls, sponges and the like. Dirt from the tank (fish poo, uneaten food and other waste) gets caught in the media or the low flow dead spots in the bottom of canisters and accumulates creating more and more nitrate as it brakes down.

The solution is regular (biweekly for example) cleaning of the media in old tank water to wash the dirt out, proper scrubbing of the corners of the canister and it's trays to prevent build up there. However this is very time consuming and generally a PITA so eventually anyone using such filters and media slack off the maintenance routine and then get plagued with issues.

As for using it as a feed for a reactor, as everyone else has pointed out, I think you'll struggle to keep a constant flow through your reactor media. This isn't the end of the world, but will eventually get on your nerves.

 

I have used canister filters on two of my tanks with zero problems. As far as cleaning, once a month was plenty. Yes there does get to be some detritus build up, but its nothing crazy. I could see a problem if regular water changes aren't done, but its not as if nitrates spike sky high if you don't clean the filter every week.

 

I did switch one tank to hob filter after 2.5+ years of a canister, where the tubing goes into the canister had become loose and started a slow drip, other than that, no problems

[Partially Submerged]

The nitrate factory branding comes from lack of proper maintenance/laziness of the operator. The same with bio balls, sponges and the like. Dirt from the tank (fish poo, uneaten food and other waste) gets caught in the media or the low flow dead spots in the bottom of canisters and accumulates creating more and more nitrate as it brakes down.

The solution is regular (biweekly for example) cleaning of the media in old tank water to wash the dirt out, proper scrubbing of the corners of the canister and it's trays to prevent build up there. However this is very time consuming and generally a PITA so eventually anyone using such filters and media slack off the maintenance routine and then get plagued with issues.

As for using it as a feed for a reactor, as everyone else has pointed out, I think you'll struggle to keep a constant flow through your reactor media. This isn't the end of the world, but will eventually get on your nerves.

 

Proper filter maintenance is important, but there is more: A filter is supposed to produce nitrate. A little nitrate is not a bad thing, and it's way better than what nitrate is converted from. Nitrate is exported with water changes, not through filtration. Cleaning the filter regularly is still important because you can remove a lot of caught stuff before it even decays. I personally clean my freshwater filters only every couple of months. With the right arrangement of media, that's totally fine. With saltwater, I try to do it every couple of weeks.

[Bingo1213]

 

Proper filter maintenance is important, but there is more: A filter is supposed to produce nitrate. A little nitrate is not a bad thing, and it's way better than what nitrate is converted from. Nitrate is exported with water changes, not through filtration. Cleaning the filter regularly is still important because you can remove a lot of caught stuff before it even decays. I personally clean my freshwater filters only every couple of months. With the right arrangement of media, that's totally fine. With saltwater, I try to do it every couple of weeks.

Yes and no. True nitrates are better than ammonia or nitrite but many filters remove them all together. Examples being skimmers, refugiums, absorption materials like ne-nitrate and even perigean can drastically reduce nitrates. I strive for zero nitrates in my tanks. Coral food is better than nitrates and yields better growth and color IMO. I use vodka to achieve this so if you want to call that a filter you can. But it's really the bacteria that is the filter in that case!

[Partially Submerged]

Yes and no. True nitrates are better than ammonia or nitrite but many filters remove them all together. Examples being skimmers, refugiums, absorption materials like ne-nitrate and even perigean can drastically reduce nitrates. I strive for zero nitrates in my tanks. Coral food is better than nitrates and yields better growth and color IMO. I use vodka to achieve this so if you want to call that a filter you can. But it's really the bacteria that is the filter in that case!

Yeah, a lot of people like to aim for zero nitrates. I personally think it's overkill. And water changes are necessary regardless of the level of filtration, so I might as well rely on them as my main means of nutrient export. I'm a big believer in less technology and more water changes, but that's just a personal preference.

[jedimasterben]

Why are water changes necessary?

[HarryPotter]

Why are water changes necessary?

 

:excl:And so it begins.....

[Bingo1213]

Yeah, a lot of people like to aim for zero nitrates. I personally think it's overkill. And water changes are necessary regardless of the level of filtration, so I might as well rely on them as my main means of nutrient export. I'm a big believer in less technology and more water changes, but that's just a personal preference.

I hear you but I will tell you I do one 10 gallon water change a year on my 90 gallon system. And I only do that for good measure. I vodka dose for nutrients, use amino acid and vitamin supplements for the corals, and run a calcium reactor with dolomite. So for me water changes are not needed. I also have incredible growth and coral color. My tank is a mixed reef with every thing from clams to gorgonians to fire corals. Everything does great. There are more than one way to skin a cat and like you said it comes down to preference.

[Halo_003]

Do you have a picture of your plumbing?

 

Im very curious about your set up. Ive never researched how sump plumbing works nor do I know how the dual drains and dual returns work. Do your two lily drains, drain into the sump. Then one pumps through the RODI canisters, then the other pump is just for flow?

 

This is how im imagining your set up:

 

2 drains -> into sump -> pump from sump to RODI canisters ->return to tank

->same pump-> split line straight to tank (for flow im assuming?)

 

 

 

I think if I have a sump, im going to run a separate pump for the RODI canisters that takes sump water, pushes it through the canisters and then dump it back into the sump.

 

Then have a eheim 1260 as the main return pump.

 

I also want to have dual returns and dual drains. So ill split the eheim return with a Y.

 

Im too nervous about drilling my 12 gallon long, so I think ill go your route and have lilys.

 

Is your set up pretty quiet? Hows the flow with the lily drains? I hear to have max flow with the return pump and eliminate gurgling sounds, a T set up at both drains is needed.

 

Thanks!

I will get detailed pics for you this weekend. I would personally recommend a MAME overflow rather than the Lily pipes, the MAME you can use with a closed loop or canister or a sump, the Lily Pipes you cannot use with a sump. The pipes are absolutely dead silent.

 

In short I have it set up so that both Lily pipes drain to a T fitting which goes to the 1000GPH Sicce inlet, the outlet side of the pump goes to another T, and one side goes through the canisters and then goes to the tank, and the other side of the T goes straight to the tank. I don't have a sump right now, I did pick up a MAME overflow to be able to though.

[Partially Submerged]

Why are water changes necessary?

Because I have small tanks, lots of corals, and don't add any nutrients other than what's in my salt mix. Frequent water changes keep everything nice and balanced.

[Partially Submerged]

I hear you but I will tell you I do one 10 gallon water change a year on my 90 gallon system. And I only do that for good measure. I vodka dose for nutrients, use amino acid and vitamin supplements for the corals, and run a calcium reactor with dolomite. So for me water changes are not needed. I also have incredible growth and coral color. My tank is a mixed reef with every thing from clams to gorgonians to fire corals. Everything does great. There are more than one way to skin a cat and like you said it comes down to preference.

Absolutely. This is another great example of how many universal truths are just not true in every context.

 

In my 58 gallon planted tank, I top off but only change the water to vacuum the sand bed. I also only clean the filter maybe once every 6 months. I do keep the temperature lower than most tropical tanks and feed only once or twice a week. The tank has been stable for years with very little algae growth.