Sump vs Sumpless

[nosser]

What's your thoughts? I see the pros and cons to both but in my situation cost is a factor. I've been out of the game for like 5yrs or so. I already had a brand new biocube 14 modding with everything I needed and BoostLEDs and I sold it and just purchased a 40b with the plans to run equipment I had from the past..

 

Current on hand Equipment:

40b

HOB Skimmer

AC110

Mars Aqua LED

2 Korilias for circulation

Working on my stand

10g tank

 

My original plan for this tank is to have a FOWLR. I ordered a Mars Aqua 165w LED for it if I plan to turn it into a mixed reef. Cost is my main concern since I already have equipment to getting it running. If I chose to run a sump, I would need a return pump, plumping and an overflow and possibly a 20L. My thought was running with what I have and then possibly running a LifeReef overflow and sump in the future if I want. I do like the clean look of not having equipment in the display though.

 

Currently I only have a 3 gallon that is still in it's cycle. I miss having a tank!

[fmfa0801]

I would just run a sump when you set it up if you think you might run one later.

[nosser]

My main reason to go without a sump is cost. Would be worth it just for a FOWLR? I want to just set this thing up.

 

If I go slow and save up to piece it together what overflow boxes would work for a herbie or bean animal? I see a lot of DIY but is there anything I can buy?

 

How's this? http://www.ebay.com/itm/201291912999

 

any other budget friendly?

[Murphs_Reef]

It is my regret that I never sumped up front. It's a PITA to think I want one now, need to move the tank etc.. Just save up n sort it first or you'll be gutted later when you finally give in and deside to go sumped

[TJ_Burton]

I have successfully run SPS dominant systems both with and without a sump. I can say with confidence it is easier with a sump; I find sumpless (canister filter run system) required weekly 25% water changes to really thrive. That being said, it is definitely not impossible and quite simple if your dealing with a smaller tank.

20 gallon SPS reef running on a canister filter (no sump or skimmer)

 

A good ATO system also helps keep the water level consistent, and I definitely recommend using a surface extractor of some kind. I personally used the Fluval one for this tank.

[ajmckay]

So there's no doubt that a sump adds significant costs to a build...

 

I would honestly weigh the pros and cons for yourself and make the decision of whether or not you really need one.

 

For a FOWLR the benefits are hiding equipment, larger skimmer, and more flexible filtration. Though it depends on your plans for this tank if you really need a big skimmer or flexible filtration...

 

Costs can be minimized if you have some DIY skillz. I run a herbie on my 40b and I built my overflow from acrylic from home depot for like $5.... But bulkheads, plumbing, valves, the sump itself, silicone and glass for baffles, etc add up quick.

 

That being said the easiest time to add a sump is during setup so just mull it over for a few days...

[Marc.The.Shark]

Here's what I read between the lines. "I think i want to go FOWLR, but I bought a light that will let me grow coral", which means you'll add coral pretty soon as you get bored with only rock & fish! Lol. Same with the sump question. If you have to ask, means you would much rather sump it than not. Like TJ says, just do the sump, way easier. If you have to wait a while and get the necessary equipment, that's ok, you'll be happier in the long run. Plus, you already have a tank up and running to play with. You can get a Jebao DCT return pump for less that $100 & they are super quiet & will have all the flow you need. I'd also keep an eye on Craigslist for a 20 sump, pretty common & you can usually pick them up for less than $50 (I've seen them for $20 or $30 that need a good cleaning). That only leaves you with the decision to drill or not for the overflow. PVC piping is reasonably inexpevsive, so we'll leave that out of the equation. So you're looking @ roughly $200-250 to sump it on a budget. Sell the AC110 to help defray some costs or keep it to use on the 10 for a QT.

[Matteo]

no sump is less money, utilities, cheaper water changes also worry free about leaking

[nosser]

Nice tank TJ! Yeah I know I'm capable of having a nice tank with or without the sump. I originally was set on no sump for simplicity and cost but everyone recommends one. And I like the clean looks of no equipment since my lights will hang from the ceiling. I'm still working on my stand so I have time to ponder..

 

@Mark, you read between the lines pretty well! Yea I was figuring $250 or so. But then I'd need a new sump skimmer. Lol

 

But I'm afraid to drill this thing!

 

@Matteo yeah those all valid reasons to consider.

[Marc.The.Shark]

you can still use the HOB skimmer in the sump. Replace that later.

[HarryPotter]

Very good points here!

 

I love my AIO because it's simple: cabinet is empty and accessories hidden. I have. A powerful skimmer and reactor in the back chamber, so it's ready for anything I could throw at it. Another benefit is ZERO noise.

 

That said, having a sump sounds really nice because you can use larger skimmers, a place to put naughty fish, etc. Openss more possibilities. But takes up the storage cabinet, has more points of failure, etc.

 

But I love my RL-45 AIO

 

[Gooburz]

I have had my reef tank up for 3 years now, my 20L for 2 years and my 40B for a year now. None of them have had a sump and I run a ESHOPPS PSK-100 HOB skimmer and do water changes bi-weekly and I top off myself. I keep the simplest system out there and my corals grow like weeds. So do you need a sump, no. Does it make things easier when you set one up with a ATO and larger skimmer, yeah it does. But like you said the cost can add up quickly.

 

I'm upgrading my 40 breeder to a 80 breeder and using my old 40 breeder as a sump and doing no baffles on it, putting a large plastic crate in it for Chaeto grow out with some live rock rubble. Again keeping my sump very simple but will be very effective.

[RyanR1212]

I would always go with a sump, for one main reason: increased water volume. The more volume you have, the easier it is to control. Less fluctuations in parameters. Biological filtration can increase if you add a fuge and even if you don't throwing a skimmer down there will do you loads of good. The second reason is you can throw everything down there and your display will look much better.

[nosser]

Thanks everyone. I'm planning to go the sump route. Just trying to plan everything out now. I'm toying with the idea of make an overflow box with 1/8 acrylic.

[righttirefire]

I started with a 20 tall, heater, HOB, AC-50, and "cheap" can grow coral light. No real issues. Decided I lost usable light with the tall tank and wanted to upgrade to 20 long. I wasnt happy with surface particles, decided to swap to 20 long and use the 20 tall for my sump... here's my write up

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/358926-swapped-20h-swap-to-20l/

[nosser]

I started with a 20 tall, heater, HOB, AC-50, and "cheap" can grow coral light. No real issues. Decided I lost usable light with the tall tank and wanted to upgrade to 20 long. I wasnt happy with surface particles, decided to swap to 20 long and use the 20 tall for my sump... here's my write up

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/358926-swapped-20h-swap-to-20l/

Thanks your setup looks great. I love the acrylic catch tank for the sump!

[nidding]

Here's what I read between the lines. "I think i want to go FOWLR, but I bought a light that will let me grow coral", which means you'll add coral pretty soon as you get bored with only rock & fish! Lol. Same with the sump question. If you have to ask, means you would much rather sump it than not. Like TJ says, just do the sump, way easier. If you have to wait a while and get the necessary equipment, that's ok, you'll be happier in the long run. Plus, you already have a tank up and running to play with. You can get a Jebao DCT return pump for less that $100 & they are super quiet & will have all the flow you need. I'd also keep an eye on Craigslist for a 20 sump, pretty common & you can usually pick them up for less than $50 (I've seen them for $20 or $30 that need a good cleaning). That only leaves you with the decision to drill or not for the overflow. PVC piping is reasonably inexpevsive, so we'll leave that out of the equation. So you're looking @ roughly $200-250 to sump it on a budget. Sell the AC110 to help defray some costs or keep it to use on the 10 for a QT.

Exactly what I thought.

You are already on the way to wanting corals. I give et 2-3 months, and you will be wanting to put some in your tank, and start regretting not going sumped from day 1.

 

By the way your screen name almost had me spit coffee all over my keyboard. "Nosser" means "balls" in Danish. And not the kind of balls you use when you play soccer, mind you. Great name!

[Marc.The.Shark]

"Nosser" means "balls" in Danish.

Hahaha! Classic!

[nosser]

Hahaha balls!? I got that name over 10yrs ago when I used to go to the illegal street races. They called me NOS Bryan or Nosser, since I was running a direct port NOS system.

 

Anyways I started buying some pieces. I have a 1" drill bits for the overflow and 3/4" for the returns. I want to drill this thing before the $1 a gallon is over. Just in case I mess up! What do you guys recommend for return pumps? I have read a ton on eheim pumps but they're so expensive. I was looking at a jebao dct4000.

[righttirefire]

I'm running a ehiem 1250 on my 20/20 no complaints. Was called outdated so looked into the dc pumps, msg'd some nano-reefers and now im planning on jebao dc3000? I don't remember. For my 40/40 build I think I drew it up expecting to use the 6000, but when I got my final head loss the 3000 would be in nice operating range

[nosser]

I'm running a ehiem 1250 on my 20/20 no complaints. Was called outdated so looked into the dc pumps, msg'd some nano-reefers and now im planning on jebao dc3000? I don't remember. For my 40/40 build I think I drew it up expecting to use the 6000, but when I got my final head loss the 3000 would be in nice operating range

 

Yeah I was looking at the 3000 but the 4000 was a couple bucks less through vendor on amazon so I figured bigger is better. I figured I could tee off the return to run reactor if the flow is too much.

 

So I found a glass shop close by and I'm planning to see if they can cut me some 2 pieces for make a corner overflow and I can run a herbie. I was searching around and they have some plastic shops locally where I can have some acrylic cut as well. Is one better than the other?

[righttirefire]

I use tap plastics. My overflow is heat bend ABS with the rough side out. And I use glass baffles n in my sump. I belive US plastics might be an option. I struck out with local plastic shops. Had to drive 1 each way

[malacoda]

Just a heads up since you're looking to keep sump costs at a minimum -- looks like Petco is currently running a $1 per gallon sale for Pals Rewards Club members through Nov. 7 in your neck of the woods. (If you're not already a member of their Pals rewards program I'm sure you can register online or at the store before making a purchase).

 

You could pick up an Aqueon tank for a heck of a price and -- with some good food-grade or aquarium-store-purchased silicon and ~$15 worth of glass cut for you a Lowe's or HD for baffles -- put together a fine sump without busting your wallet.

[nosser]

Thanks yeah, I purchased a 40B $1 a gallon from petco already and since I'm leaning towards a sump I and going to pick up a 20l from there too. I found a glass shop that can cut the overflow, but they quoted $20 a piece! I haven't checked home depot's glass yet but they can cut glass too?

By the way your screen name almost had me spit coffee all over my keyboard. "Nosser" means "balls" in Danish. And not the kind of balls you use when you play soccer, mind you. Great name!

 

Dang you Nidding... every time I log onto nano-reef now all I think about is Danish balls!

[righttirefire]

My lowes and HD only do thin glass