cuddyk Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Hey guys, I know there are hundreds of "why are my zoas closed?" posts...but I have an unusual situation in my 8 gal nano. The palys in the foreground and zoos in the bg have been closed for over a year. They don't melt away. There are no nudis around. I don't see anything munching on them at night. They just seem to like being stalks. I've tried adjusting the lighting, flow, etc. Done dips with coral RX, etc. No change. Parameters are: Calcium: 425 DKH: 9 SG: 1.025 Temp: 79 PH 8.2 Mag 1200 It's an IM nuvo 8 tank with a nano sol light 6 inches above the surface (10% white, 15% B, 15% royal). I know some run these fixtures much higher, but it seems plenty bright in there. Running purigen and chemi pure elite. ATO keeps things really stable. Weekly 1 gal water changes with distilled water and reef crystals salt. Thoughts? Thanks! Link to comment
natalia_la_loca Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 When I started my first tank and was struggling with nuisance algae, I fed it very little and had the same thing happen to my zoas. They bleached, closed and stayed in a dormant state for a very long time (may have been a year or more), eventually melting away. I also had a very weak light fixture over the tank. I wonder if you're starving them of light and/or nutrients. (Your tank can be nutrient starved and still have nuisance algae.) What are you feeding your tank, what other livestock and corals do you have? Link to comment
D Z Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I know you said you checked for pests, but just to be sure have you checked for zoa pox? Do you have any other zoas or palys in the tank that are open and happy? What are your phosphates and nitrates testing at? Link to comment
cuddyk Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 I've got an emerald crab, a few hermits, snails. Had a small snowflake clown until last week (he lived for nearly 2 years. I think he got too close to the crab one day.). Food wise, I fed the clown a small pinch of Formula 2 pellets each day. He got about 60% of them. The others were eaten by the inverts. When the zoas and plays were open I'd target feed frozen food and coral frenzy (3-4 times a month). Haven't done that since they closed. Otherwise, I just have 2 different types of star polyps. Tried adding some acans a few months ago but they never really puffed up and died. Clearly there's something up in my tank. Could be the lighting. I haven't really seen a lighting formula for the nano sol that people swear by. Instead I've been going by what looks right...similar to the LFS and/or other tanks I've had. When I crank it too high things seem to get angry....even after acclimating over a period of several weeks. No other zoas are open or happy. Phosphates are near zero. nitrates also. Thanks for your help. I'm baffled. Link to comment
GokesReef Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Definitely have a mystery tank on your hands there.. so only the star polyps are doing well? Everything in the numbers look fine, I would double check things like the salinity and temperature if you can, just to make sure none of your instruments are defective. It may be some stray current, though that's almost a red herring as far as symptoms/tests goes. Any major changes that you can remember around the time when they started closing? Link to comment
natalia_la_loca Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 How long have you been running purigen, chemi pure elite? How often do you change them? Do you use the full amounts as they come in the package, or portion out a smaller amount to fit your tank size? I only run carbon in my Nuvo 8. One tablespoon of lignite carbon, changed every two weeks. Link to comment
cuddyk Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 Yes, the star polyps are doing well. That's the only other coral in there. I've tried running with and without carbon and purigen. I use the small chemi pure and the 100ml purigen. Doesn't seem to matter. No major change that coincided with their closing. What's really weird to me is that they're not dead after all this time. About 2 months ago the palys seemed to open a bit more. Then they went back to the way they are now. My guess is lighting. It would be great to find a scheme / pattern / timing that has definitely worked in other people's tanks. That way I could at least rule that out. Link to comment
natalia_la_loca Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Increasing the light intensity is worth a try. I forgot to add, I have had Zs/Ps get like this when they were in shade (although yours are not shaded). True palythoas (e.g. button polyps, nuclear greens, purple deaths) recovered when the source of shade was removed; zoas did not. These zoas may be too far gone to recover. Might want to add some new zoas once you increase the light, to see if they fare better. Feed the tank a couple times a week, and/or add a new fish, to get some nutrients in there. You could maybe try some Zeovit additives in moderation (Sponge Power, Amino Acid LPS). Link to comment
BulkRate Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 3 why-not-try-it ideas come to mind: (don't do them all at once for the sake of knowing what's happening) The pics don't look poxed (I may be missing it in the focus, bit it doesn't look like there's any pustules on the stalks). You may want to consider a 50/50 peroxide dip to clean off the hair algae, though - I've seen that stuff irritate a couple of colonies in my own tank (or the dip also removed whatever was hiding in the HA). Slowly ramp your lighting on each channel up by 20% over the week (maybe 2-3% a day) - that seems a little low even in a shallow tank like the Evolve. the slow increase should let you see if the zoas start to peek open without roasting anything. Try ditching the CPE for a week and just run with the carbon and purigen - it'll keep your water clear enough to see if there's something in Boyd's magic mix that's ticking them off in your particular case. A year's a long time to be closed up, but zoas & palys can be a fickle bunch despite being classed as an "easy" coral. Link to comment
cuddyk Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 Thanks everyone. Do you think it could be related to a shrimp? When the lights start to dim I hear that unmistakable snapping. it's not loud, but I've pulled the tank apart several times and can't find it. Link to comment
BulkRate Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Doubtful... you'd be more likely to have frags on thec sand inexplicably buried or moved, not harassed into staying closed. By the way, that was a 50% tank water to 50% over-the-counter strength (3%) hydrogen peroxide... NOT a lab/industrial strength solution of H2O2! In my experience all but the weakest, technically already dead zoas can handle this strength dip for around 5-10 minutes. If you do it, don't forget to blow the dip at the frag with a pipette or baster & gently brush the crud off with a soft bristle toothbrush or something. Link to comment
cuddyk Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 how do star polyps tolerate that h2o2 dip? Link to comment
cuddyk Posted March 25, 2015 Author Share Posted March 25, 2015 FOLLOW UP: I did the dip(s), but that didn't help. Then, over the course of a month I gradually raised the lighting on my AI nano, and at about 45%w, 50%b, 50%rb, the palys actually opened! Amazing since I haven't seem them for a year. Seems pretty bright in the tank compared to the LFS and the ocean, but I guess that's what they like. Kinda strange, as I would think too much light would cause them to close. Oh well...another weird thing about palys.... Thanks for all the help. Link to comment
D Z Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 That is weird. Typically with palys, when they are light deprived, you see them opened and stretching up towards the light. My guess is it was just a coincidence with the changes in lighting, but sometimes in this hobby you just dont know. Glad to hear they are opened up and doing better. Link to comment
porkchop-rob Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Odd.....But AWESOME! Congrats! Link to comment
SchnauzerFace Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Glad to hear they are happy again! Zoas are my favorite corals, and I've always heard people say they're easy to grow and great for beginners. But I've never had much luck getting them to multiply. I have read several times that zoas prefer the water to be a little dirty, so unless you've got a lot of SPS in your tank, it wouldn't hurt to let your nitrates raise to 5ppm. But it sounds like the lighting fixed it, so maybe that's all that they needed! Link to comment
scubasteve2580 Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Some zoa's have a higher light requirement. I have gotten zoas in that ,melt away if they aren't in a shaded area, deepwaters usually. Then I have had some in like hulks that can with stand all the light you can throw at em. I've got some gobstoppers that look absolutely horrible under low lighting then I have another colony of the same gobstoppers directly underneath a reefbreeder fixture that are beautiful. I've had sps that are where they are and they bleached. Link to comment
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