DriftingNemo Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 It's nearly time for me to begin driving which means I won't have a lot of money left to sustain my 63 gallon tank because of how painfully expensive car insurance is in the UK... I want to get a small tank, something between 20 to 25 gallons. I already have about 55lbs of live rock, I have a few pieces of soft coral which I can easily transfer to the smaller tank.. Now at the moment, I'm only running a Fluval 406 on the 63g which means 20% weekly water changes are a must. My plan is to use this canister on the smaller tank, keep only 3 or 4 small fish and do bi weekly or even monthly water changes. I want to use a deep sand bed and macroalgae to help with nutrient export. Are there any members on this forum who have done something similar to this? Link to comment
CronicReefer Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 I run the fluval 306 on my 29gallon and it works great for me and I like the amount of space you have for chemical/mechanical/biological filtration. I would recommend you clean the canister at least once every two weeks but I've found the tank stays healthier if I clean it out once a week when I do my 5gallon water change. I keep a reef lobster, 3 fish, and a wide variety of corals and so far my only losses in the tank have been a green clove polyp, and two snails that didn't take well to acclimation. I also use a deep sand bed for nutrient export as well and find that it works well except recently when my lobster decided to make a new home and disturbed a large amount of sand causing my nitrates to spike up to 25ppm but they are declining and are back in the 15ppm range. Link to comment
DriftingNemo Posted February 11, 2015 Author Share Posted February 11, 2015 I run the fluval 306 on my 29gallon and it works great for me and I like the amount of space you have for chemical/mechanical/biological filtration. I would recommend you clean the canister at least once every two weeks but I've found the tank stays healthier if I clean it out once a week when I do my 5gallon water change. I keep a reef lobster, 3 fish, and a wide variety of corals and so far my only losses in the tank have been a green clove polyp, and two snails that didn't take well to acclimation. I also use a deep sand bed for nutrient export as well and find that it works well except recently when my lobster decided to make a new home and disturbed a large amount of sand causing my nitrates to spike up to 25ppm but they are declining and are back in the 15ppm range. Nice to see that someone else is running a simple system. I think I'll settle for a 25g that's at least 36" long.. I'll probably go for a pair of Ocellaris clowns and a large amount of clean up crew. I clean my canister out every 2 weeks like you do, but I don't run carbon or any chemical filtration whatsoever. I think I'll go as far as growing some mangroves in my new tank. I don't have any fish at the moment to worry about, so I can take my time with my new tank build. I could just ditch the canister filter all together and build an all in one tank which would make maintenance easier and eliminate the chance of a leaking canister filter. Link to comment
CronicReefer Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Nice to see that someone else is running a simple system. I think I'll settle for a 25g that's at least 36" long.. I'll probably go for a pair of Ocellaris clowns and a large amount of clean up crew. I clean my canister out every 2 weeks like you do, but I don't run carbon or any chemical filtration whatsoever. I think I'll go as far as growing some mangroves in my new tank. I don't have any fish at the moment to worry about, so I can take my time with my new tank build. I could just ditch the canister filter all together and build an all in one tank which would make maintenance easier and eliminate the chance of a leaking canister filter. I would definitely go with an AIO just because of the cleaner look but I'm definitely happy with the canister filter so far. I plan on switching to using a macro algae refugium with deep sand bed for my primary biofiltration when I upgrade my tank just because of the massive amount of benefits that come along with them. I've never done saltwater personally so was more of a trial to see just how difficult it truly is to maintain a saltwater tank and if I could personally succeed so on my upgrade I'm more willing to spend the money on DT/refugium setup. Link to comment
Axiomatic Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 If you want less maintenance and less potential for tank crashes/spikes which will cost money and time to deal with, wouldn't you want to go bare bottom? One less thing to clean, and 1 less sponge of bioload that, if disturbed by livestock or equipment, can crash your tank? Link to comment
CronicReefer Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 If you want less maintenance and less potential for tank crashes/spikes which will cost money and time to deal with, wouldn't you want to go bare bottom? One less thing to clean, and 1 less sponge of bioload that, if disturbed by livestock or equipment, can crash your tank? Deep sand bed is not for everyone but my lobster would be very unhappy without it. Also I believe the benefits are greater than the risk and a tank crash can be avoided with proper maintenance and care. It also helps provide natural food for my tank livestock. Link to comment
Axiomatic Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Deep sand bed is not for everyone but my lobster would be very unhappy without it. Also I believe the benefits are greater than the risk and a tank crash can be avoided with proper maintenance and care. It also helps provide natural food for my tank livestock. Oh, I was replying back to the OP. Not sure if they have the same livestock load as you do which would require sand. Link to comment
DriftingNemo Posted February 12, 2015 Author Share Posted February 12, 2015 Oh, I was replying back to the OP. Not sure if they have the same livestock load as you do which would require sand. Well, at the moment I don't have any fish, just coral and a few snails in my big tank... I don't like the way bare bottom tanks look, I've always liked the way sand makes the whole aquarium look more natural. I've never tried a DSB before and I won't get critters which would potentially disturb the sand bed. I just want to try and use biological filtration as much as possible and not have any chemical filtration. Link to comment
DriftingNemo Posted February 12, 2015 Author Share Posted February 12, 2015 I would definitely go with an AIO just because of the cleaner look but I'm definitely happy with the canister filter so far. I plan on switching to using a macro algae refugium with deep sand bed for my primary biofiltration when I upgrade my tank just because of the massive amount of benefits that come along with them. I've never done saltwater personally so was more of a trial to see just how difficult it truly is to maintain a saltwater tank and if I could personally succeed so on my upgrade I'm more willing to spend the money on DT/refugium setup. I honestly think saltwater isn't difficult as long as you keep it simple. It's one of those hobbies in which you need a lot of time and money in my opinion. I want to fill the tank with display macroalgae and keep soft coral only... Since I'll be building the AIO filtration system myself, I might incorporate a small section in which I can keep mangroves and start growing a small bonsai tree. Luckily I have however much time I want to design and build this whole setup. I'll order pieces of acrylic cut to size for the filter and silicone them into whatever tank I end up getting. Link to comment
ajmckay Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I honestly think saltwater isn't difficult as long as you keep it simple. It's one of those hobbies in which you need a lot of time and money in my opinion. I want to fill the tank with display macroalgae and keep soft coral only... Since I'll be building the AIO filtration system myself, I might incorporate a small section in which I can keep mangroves and start growing a small bonsai tree. Luckily I have however much time I want to design and build this whole setup. I'll order pieces of acrylic cut to size for the filter and silicone them into whatever tank I end up getting. Yeah it all depends on what your goals are for a tank... Honestly you're not going to have a fancy SPS tank on a small budget. Then again what kind of budget are you talking about? A small budget for some people is a huge budget for others! Anyways, if you are truly on a budget and need to keep it cheap I would focus on downgrading to the best tank/light/flow combination that you can afford. 20 gallons or so would be a good cheap tank IMO. Use your rock (and sell the extra), use your corals, and cut the # of fish in half. Get 2 fish only and that will keep your bio-load down and reduce the livestock loss due to overcrowding. Focus on species that have really good compatibility so try not to get any crabs or shrimp because crabs and shrimp tend to pick off snails and sometimes corals. It's expensive to keep replacing snails. Avoid buying corals and livestock on impulse - this is expensive Quarantine and dip, and carefully inspect all livestock and corals - introducing a pest or nuisance algae is expensive Get a good ATO system going - this will leave you free to do more (work more, drive more, etc) while keeping your salinity in check. Ultimately though, I think one of the most important things is to get a good maintenance routine in place and have the discipline to stick to it. By doing regular water changes and simple things like regular feeding, a little rock scrubbing, replacing sponges, and just being alert to any growing issues you can avoid having expensive or time consuming problems like the tank being overrun by algae. Link to comment
DriftingNemo Posted February 12, 2015 Author Share Posted February 12, 2015 Yeah it all depends on what your goals are for a tank... Honestly you're not going to have a fancy SPS tank on a small budget. Then again what kind of budget are you talking about? A small budget for some people is a huge budget for others! Anyways, if you are truly on a budget and need to keep it cheap I would focus on downgrading to the best tank/light/flow combination that you can afford. 20 gallons or so would be a good cheap tank IMO. Use your rock (and sell the extra), use your corals, and cut the # of fish in half. Get 2 fish only and that will keep your bio-load down and reduce the livestock loss due to overcrowding. Focus on species that have really good compatibility so try not to get any crabs or shrimp because crabs and shrimp tend to pick off snails and sometimes corals. It's expensive to keep replacing snails. Avoid buying corals and livestock on impulse - this is expensive Quarantine and dip, and carefully inspect all livestock and corals - introducing a pest or nuisance algae is expensive Get a good ATO system going - this will leave you free to do more (work more, drive more, etc) while keeping your salinity in check. Ultimately though, I think one of the most important things is to get a good maintenance routine in place and have the discipline to stick to it. By doing regular water changes and simple things like regular feeding, a little rock scrubbing, replacing sponges, and just being alert to any growing issues you can avoid having expensive or time consuming problems like the tank being overrun by algae. Thanks for all the advice! I think an ATO is an excellent idea, especially since I won't be home so often and I don't want to risk evaporation to a dangerous level... I think I'll stick to a nice pair of Ocellaris Clowns and a cleaner shrimp in a 25g tank. I've had cleaner shrimp before, and haven't had problems with them. Lighting wise, it would have to be a t5 fixture of some sort. I won't need much lighting, maybe 2-3w per gallon. I don't think I'll be running a QT tank for this little tank, I'll get my fish from a reputable store which is a good distance away from where I live, but it's worth the journey. Link to comment
ajmckay Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Yeah it all depends on what your goals are for a tank... Honestly you're not going to have a fancy SPS tank on a small budget. Then again what kind of budget are you talking about? A small budget for some people is a huge budget for others! Anyways, if you are truly on a budget and need to keep it cheap I would focus on downgrading to the best tank/light/flow combination that you can afford. 20 gallons or so would be a good cheap tank IMO. Use your rock (and sell the extra), use your corals, and cut the # of fish in half. Get 2 fish only and that will keep your bio-load down and reduce the livestock loss due to overcrowding. Focus on species that have really good compatibility so try not to get any crabs or shrimp because crabs and shrimp tend to pick off snails and sometimes corals. It's expensive to keep replacing snails. Avoid buying corals and livestock on impulse - this is expensive Quarantine and dip, and carefully inspect all livestock and corals - introducing a pest or nuisance algae is expensive Get a good ATO system going - this will leave you free to do more (work more, drive more, etc) while keeping your salinity in check. Ultimately though, I think one of the most important things is to get a good maintenance routine in place and have the discipline to stick to it. By doing regular water changes and simple things like regular feeding, a little rock scrubbing, replacing sponges, and just being alert to any growing issues you can avoid having expensive or time consuming problems like the tank being overrun by algae. I think you can get away without QT with this setup. QT becomes more important the more frequently you add or change livestock. If you keep things consistent the need is decreased. Also I just thought of something... Scrap everything said so far... If you really want a cheap tank just set one up Amphipod style ! Hahaha! http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/355803-the-amphipods-tanks-thread/ Sorry I just like to poke fun at his style of tank building just because it's so outside the norm of what someone typically thinks of when they think of a reef tank... They remind me of the tanks of random crap I caught at the pond when I was tiny... yeah those were pretty... set them up on the porch with some mud and random plants and snails, tadpoles, snails, water bugs, small fish etc... Lasted until it got smelly enough for my mom to make me clean it out ... hahaha Link to comment
Mojado Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 For all the high school kids studying for the SATs Low cost, low maintenance : reef keeping :: oil : water Link to comment
DriftingNemo Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 I think you can get away without QT with this setup. QT becomes more important the more frequently you add or change livestock. If you keep things consistent the need is decreased. Also I just thought of something... Scrap everything said so far... If you really want a cheap tank just set one up Amphipod style ! Hahaha! http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/355803-the-amphipods-tanks-thread/ Sorry I just like to poke fun at his style of tank building just because it's so outside the norm of what someone typically thinks of when they think of a reef tank... They remind me of the tanks of random crap I caught at the pond when I was tiny... yeah those were pretty... set them up on the porch with some mud and random plants and snails, tadpoles, snails, water bugs, small fish etc... Lasted until it got smelly enough for my mom to make me clean it out ... hahaha Haha, I used to do that when I was a kid.. I'd catch little blennies and get all sorts of critters and anemones from the rock pools and keep them in a 2 gallon bowl Link to comment
Swing2Harmony Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 I've been running a 20G Cube with nothing but a AquaClear 20 which runs filter floss and ROX Carbon. Recently I've been using Rowaphos in there too to get the phospates down after I expermintaed with some amino acids, because I was going fishless and wanted to add some nutrients, but they added tons of phospate. I don't have a test kit for phospate, but I was getting green film algea on the sand and it was very annoying. Deep sand bed in a small tank is useless. Get 5lbs of sand and use the money somewhere else. Remmber the larger the live rock, the better, it's not the weight that only counts, it's how much anaerobic areas it can host.Do DIY wherever it makes sense and you have the abilities to do so. Also, consider making your own food.Keep the bio load down, 2 nano fish that are not jumpers are your best bet. Get a HOB filter and clean and change the floss very often. This way you'll use less salt and won't have to use GFO. One of those cheap plastic skimmers that uses an air pump could be great too.Couple of Koralia Nano's are great for a 20 gallon. Cheap and silent. Don't go cheap on the heater. Get one of those 75W cobalt heaters, they are not too expenisve. Get stuff from China as much as you can. I get my filter floss, refractromer and other tools from eBay or BangGood.com ...and stay away form leathers. They crap in the water too much in different ways! Link to comment
Chadf Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Deep sand bed in a small tank is useless. Get 5lbs of sand and use the money somewhere else. Remmber the larger the live rock, the better, it's not the weight that only counts, it's how much anaerobic areas it can host. I'd beg to differ, have you run a nano Berlin or is that just regurgitation? You recommend rock for anaerobic areas in a nano, but not sand. What's the difference besides a DSB actually having enough anaerobic area to be useful. Link to comment
Swing2Harmony Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 I'm not suggesting to fill up the whole nano with huge rocks. Just one big piece among other smaller ones and aestheticly it can work well as well. DSB is just not practical in a nano because most nanos are fairly short tanks and you should know that a DSB is only as good as how deep it is. If you do 5" in a nano, then how much space you got left? Also DSB requires planning and care that might not be worth someone's time for a nano. On the other hand, a not so porous live rock is completely maintance and care free, and you can mount corals on it. And don't even get me started on sand storms! :-D Link to comment
FlowerMama Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Dragon's breath & other nice macros create a very softened look to a tank and help out on the nitrates. I loved looking at the macro algae forum. Link to comment
farkwar Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 If you want less maintenance and less potential for tank crashes/spikes which will cost money and time to deal with, wouldn't you want to go bare bottom? One less thing to clean, and 1 less sponge of bioload that, if disturbed by livestock or equipment, can crash your tank? Exactly. It is not intuitive to me that sand is some or any kind of filter. Empirically, it is a method to trap poop, and hold it in your tank. Link to comment
DriftingNemo Posted February 27, 2015 Author Share Posted February 27, 2015 I've been running a 20G Cube with nothing but a AquaClear 20 which runs filter floss and ROX Carbon. Recently I've been using Rowaphos in there too to get the phospates down after I expermintaed with some amino acids, because I was going fishless and wanted to add some nutrients, but they added tons of phospate. I don't have a test kit for phospate, but I was getting green film algea on the sand and it was very annoying. Deep sand bed in a small tank is useless. Get 5lbs of sand and use the money somewhere else. Remmber the larger the live rock, the better, it's not the weight that only counts, it's how much anaerobic areas it can host. Do DIY wherever it makes sense and you have the abilities to do so. Also, consider making your own food. Keep the bio load down, 2 nano fish that are not jumpers are your best bet. Get a HOB filter and clean and change the floss very often. This way you'll use less salt and won't have to use GFO. One of those cheap plastic skimmers that uses an air pump could be great too. Couple of Koralia Nano's are great for a 20 gallon. Cheap and silent. Don't go cheap on the heater. Get one of those 75W cobalt heaters, they are not too expenisve. Get stuff from China as much as you can. I get my filter floss, refractromer and other tools from eBay or BangGood.com ...and stay away form leathers. They crap in the water too much in different ways! I have already ordered the components required to build my AIO filtration system including a 600gph mini sump pump. I have about 15lbs of sand from my old tank (nice and seeded) so I won't have to buy anymore, I've got loads of rock to choose from (which again, I've already got) I'll be ready to set this tank up next week, so I'll have some pictures by then Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.