Diatoms or Dinos?

[jabeuy]

So my tank has been up for about 1.5 months. I transferred all the livestock and rocks to it from an existing tank, so I didn't go through any cycle that I'm aware of. I did add additional marco dry rock to this new tank.

 

After a couple of weeks running, I added a 6 line wrasse, then 2 weeks after a yellow tang. Around the same time that I added the tang, I also increased my lighting intensity (though still at max 30% blues and 15% whites).

 

Admittedly, I went too fast adding new fish, and changed around too many variables around the same time.

 

Now I have this brown stuff on my sand bed. Not sure if it's diatoms, b/c there look to be air bubbles, bit hoping they're not dinoflaggelates. I did a water change and vacuumed the sand, then a few days later they were back.

 

With flash:

 

No flash:

 

 

Ammonia: 0ppm (api kit)

Nitrates: 0ppm (api kit)

Phosphates: 0.10 (hanna checker)

SG (if this matters): 1.026

 

Can anyone ID?

Should I take some action or just continue PWC? I put in some phosguard today.

[albertthiel]

So my tank has been up for about 1.5 months. I transferred all the livestock and rocks to it from an existing tank, so I didn't go through any cycle that I'm aware of. I did add additional marco dry rock to this new tank.

 

After a couple of weeks running, I added a 6 line wrasse, then 2 weeks after a yellow tang. Around the same time that I added the tang, I also increased my lighting intensity (though still at max 30% blues and 15% whites).

 

Admittedly, I went too fast adding new fish, and changed around too many variables around the same time.

 

Now I have this brown stuff on my sand bed. Not sure if it's diatoms, b/c there look to be air bubbles, bit hoping they're not dinoflaggelates. I did a water change and vacuumed the sand, then a few days later they were back.

 

With flash:

 

No flash:

 

 

Ammonia: 0ppm (api kit)

Nitrates: 0ppm (api kit)

Phosphates: 0.10 (hanna checker)

SG (if this matters): 1.026

 

Can anyone ID?

Should I take some action or just continue PWC? I put in some phosguard today.

 

Looks like Dinoflagellates to me

[jabeuy]

 

Looks like Dinoflagellates to me

Uh oh. Time for me to do some research.

Thanks Albert.

[jabeuy]

Yikes dinos seems really serious.

 

Anyone wanna give me hope that this might be diatoms instead? Or even cyano, I think I'd much rather have that!

 

It looks like I have air bubbles on the sand, even where there isnt any of the brown stuff growing. Some bubbles are even underneath the surface of the sand.

 

[GHill762]

Looks like cyanobacteria to me

[Bambang]

Its diatom to me. Just run a GFO or Phosguard it would dissapear.

[GHill762]

Diatoms are more powdery, that looks like a film of cyano on the sand bed

[Weasel Baron]

probably cyano

 

what's your photoperiod? do you have any macro algae that may be masking your PO levels? skimming?

[jabeuy]

Hmmm... planning to let it simmer for a bit considering all the sudden changes and additions I made.

 

If it's diatoms or cyano, I added the phosguard and cut my light period a couple hours shorter.

 

And cyano can be flow related right? I have a jebao wp10 and was running one of the wave modes without any tank issues. Silly me decided to try out the "else" mode around the same time I made those changes. Since then I've gone back to the wave mode as it seemed the else mode wasn't moving as much water.

 

Whether or not all the changes caused this brown stuff, I've learned my lesson to not make too many changes at once. There's no way to tell what is causing what lol. Hopefully others can learn from this too.

 

probably cyano

 

what's your photoperiod? do you have any macro algae that may be masking your PO levels? skimming?

Photoperiod was 11am to 11pm. Now 11am to 9:30.

 

Skimmer is a tunze 9004. No macro.

[Weasel Baron]

yeah, a lot of variables. see if the reduction in photoperiod and the phosgaurd helps. if not, you could always consider carbon dosing to pull those extra nutrients out with your skimmer

[jabeuy]

After some reading, I found that apparently dinos will go away when the light goes off, and then come back.

 

This morning, with the lights off, it looked like the brown stuff increased. So this is leading me to think it may not be dinos (hopefully).

Also, it seems slightly "reddish", as it's a rust color more than brown.

[jedimasterben]

Not dinos, just cyano. Increase nutrient export.

[jabeuy]

Not dinos, just cyano. Increase nutrient export.

 

Pheww, really hope so. And yes sir, that's the plan.

 

I was looking through scanning your thread cause I saw that you had dinos at some point, but 130 pages! I got lost haha.

[jabeuy]

Ooh forgot, another clue. When I vacuumed the sand, the brown stuff was "crusty". Not sure if that's an accurate description, but it was solidified lol.

[Rehype]

Ive been battling dinos for the better portion of the year and they look like dinos to me. Is your CUC eating it? If not its likely dinos. I had to purchase a microscope to properly ID mine but im glad i did as my initial misdiagnosis couldve cost me all my livestock.

[jabeuy]

Ive been battling dinos for the better portion of the year and they look like dinos to me. Is your CUC eating it? If not its likely dinos. I had to purchase a microscope to properly ID mine but im glad i did as my initial misdiagnosis couldve cost me all my livestock.

 

CUC doesn't seem to be eating it. But my CUC is pretty weak at the moment: 3 trochus (+ their babies), 1 nassarius, 1 scarlet hermit and 1 cleaner shrimp.

 

I guess looking under a microscope will be the only sure-fire way to tell what this is...not sure I'm ready to buy one though

[ghostgr]

Ive just started my battle against dinos. I dont get air bubbles in them like yours but they definately feel slimey. Lights go off they go away. Lights come on they come back. From what ive read the best way to do it is a 3 day black out period along with covering the tank so no light gets in. Along with no water changes for at least 2 months (monitor closely and only perform in an emergency) and aggressively skim.

[jabeuy]

Ive just started my battle against dinos. I dont get air bubbles in them like yours but they definately feel slimey. Lights go off they go away. Lights come on they come back. From what ive read the best way to do it is a 3 day black out period along with covering the tank so no light gets in. Along with no water changes for at least 2 months (monitor closely and only perform in an emergency) and aggressively skim.

Mine don't go away when light out, they actually get worse it seems. Really hoping it's not dinos cause they sound like a menace lol.

[ghostgr]

Mine don't go away when light out, they actually get worse it seems. Really hoping it's not dinos cause they sound like a menace lol.

Then its most likely cyano or diatoms. I hooe no one gets dinos. From my research though all tanks have them and they only come out under certain circumstances and there are several species.

[jabeuy]

I've now been doing weekly 10% water changes. I siphon out the ugly stuff with a baster, then remove water. They still come back, slowly building up to the amount before removal.

 

I've also added a baggie of phosgard in my overflow compartment. Before adding it I had 0.10ppm phosphates (hanna checker), then a week later it got down to 0.02! Not sure what the cause is. Could be the PWC's, phosguard or just me being bad at testing haha.

 

Also added a koralia 240 onto the back wall, just for more overall flow in the case of cyano.

 

It's still brownish/red with bubbles in some areas. Now also getting a little fuzzy in some spots.

 

Nothing seems to be improving much. If anything, maybe a very slight improvement. Anyway, I'll just keep up with what I'm doing now since it doesn't seem to affect any livestock.

 

[ghostgr]

I've now been doing weekly 10% water changes. I siphon out the ugly stuff with a baster, then remove water. They still come back, slowly building up to the amount before removal.

 

I've also added a baggie of phosgard in my overflow compartment. Before adding it I had 0.10ppm phosphates (hanna checker), then a week later it got down to 0.02! Not sure what the cause is. Could be the PWC's, phosguard or just me being bad at testing haha.

 

Also added a koralia 240 onto the back wall, just for more overall flow in the case of cyano.

 

It's still brownish/red with bubbles in some areas. Now also getting a little fuzzy in some spots.

 

Nothing seems to be improving much. If anything, maybe a very slight improvement. Anyway, I'll just keep up with what I'm doing now since it doesn't seem to affect any livestock.

 

What is your alk at? I was told alk of 7 or less can cause slime algae outbreaks.

[Polarcollision]

Try a fighting conch. I had a nasty sand bed for a few months after fish died and disappeared. Conch took care of it. Also have confirmed dinos in my tank. They go away when I have the right balance of phosban, but have come back from overfeeding for a baby mandarin fish. Not too worried about them, knock on wood. Keep your phosphates down at .02 for a while. They're actually a lot higher in the tank since the brown film is using them up, so it will take a while to turn it around. The conch should speed things up.

[farkwar]

What's preventing you from just siphoning all that crap out?

[jabeuy]

What is your alk at? I was told alk of 7 or less can cause slime algae outbreaks.

 

To be honest I have no idea. Never tested. I do have an API test that I think includes that, so might be worth a test. Thanks.

 

Try a fighting conch. I had a nasty sand bed for a few months after fish died and disappeared. Conch took care of it. Also have confirmed dinos in my tank. They go away when I have the right balance of phosban, but have come back from overfeeding for a baby mandarin fish. Not too worried about them, knock on wood. Keep your phosphates down at .02 for a while. They're actually a lot higher in the tank since the brown film is using them up, so it will take a while to turn it around. The conch should speed things up.

 

Yup phosphates are definitely higher than 0.02, that brown stuff is messing with the readings. How many conch's did you use?

 

What's preventing you from just siphoning all that crap out?

 

I have been siphoning out in the last 2 consecutive water changes. Take out maybe 80%, then they just come back. Do you mean siphoning out in between water changes?

[xiaoxiy]

I battled a similar algae for the past two months (starting about three days after I set up my new tank). I suspected that mine was brown Cyano.

 

I think it might be a new tank thing, because mine finally went away. Keep doing your water changes and nutrient export & siphoning it out, after the tank matures a little bit more, it'll probably go away.