Cycled enough for water change?!

[NCNanoNewbie]

Ok here goes.

 

I have a 26 bow front that I had setup 3 years ago with a sand substrate etc for about 4 months. After that I went to a 125, had that about a year and a half and tore it down. I did everything backwards and was fighting it the whole time. This time I'm trying to be patient and do it right. However I may already be off on the wrong foot.

 

So I decided to setup my 26. I had the sand still in there from before. I had I guess "dead" live rock from my tanks that I saved. So I rinsed the sand several times, rinsed the rock off and set it up. Here is where I messed up, I put in a clown fish. SO now I'm cycling fish in. I added tlc start smart bacteria and off we go. Well I never had a reading of ammonia with zero nitrite, or zero nitrate by day two. I've been fighting for almost two weeks now to figure this out. A few days ago my ammonia was .25-.5 nitrites around 1.0 and nitrates 20ppm. I added a cleanup crew with 3 nasarius snails and some blue legged hermits preparing for the upcoming algae I was expecting. Well no algae. Over the last 8 days, I've changed almost 10 gallons of water out over 3 water changes, and don't want to take out anymore b/c I'm afraid this could be delaying the cycle. However today my ammonia is 2.0ppm 1-2ppm nitrites and 40ppm nitrates. Everybody looks happy, the crabs are out, snails are moving and the clown is super happy. I'm confused and trying to get this sorted out. The tank will eventually be a reef tank but I can't even get through the fish cycle.

 

Details

PH 8.2-8.4

Salinity 1.025 +- .001

 

 

Initial filling was tap water (from a well)

All water changes have been with r/o water.

I've used Prime to condition

 

 

EDIT: I kept track of most of the days readings from day 4-present. So it's been about 16-17 days and I also left out I've only fed 3 times. Very small amounts, to keep the ammonia down.

 

 

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[cju84]

Cycled enough? No. Your ammonia and nitrites should be at 0ppm - then and only then is your cycle complete and should you add any living thing. Your fish is likely stressed as all hell and probably won't live.

You also are using tap water? Why? Did you at least test the well water for ammonia/nitrites/nitrates?

Sorry if this is harsh sounding but it seems you did absolutely zero research.

How long has your tank been cycling for? Unless you are using established live/cured rock and live sand, your cycle will usually tank around a month to complete. Then you test your parameters. If your ammonia/nitrites are 0ppm and nitrates are low, you can then add a CUC... Then wait another couple weeks to see if they live before adding anything else.

[NCNanoNewbie]

I didn't do a lot of research before hand. I already said that. I guess you don't really sound harsh, but maybe you have a reading comprehension problem. That or you didn't read my post entirely.

 

However to answer your question, my well has zero Am,Ni,Na. I also only used tap water for the initial filling. Not for any of my water changes, or topping off. I'm using reef crystals for salt, if you are actually trying to help. If not and you are beating the dead horse of the things I did wrong over and over then I guess disregard my post.

[cju84]

I didn't do a lot of research before hand. I already said that. I guess you don't really sound harsh, but maybe you have a reading comprehension problem. That or you didn't read my post entirely.

 

However to answer your question, my well has zero Am,Ni,Na. I also only used tap water for the initial filling. Not for any of my water changes, or topping off. I'm using reef crystals for salt, if you are actually trying to help. If not and you are beating the dead horse of the things I did wrong over and over then I guess disregard my post.

 

Sorry but you say "This time I'm trying to be patient and do it right."

 

What you have done is the complete opposite of being patient.

 

Anyway, you should remove your clownfish from your tank asap and get it to your LFS or a separate quarantine tank. Then let your tank cycle properly (again, it will take a month to six weeks possibly).

 

That's good your well seems pretty pure, but I may restart everything at this point and use RO/DI or Distilled water to fill your initial tank up.

 

Also, when your tank is cycling, do not do a water change. You should top off daily with RO/DI, distilled water, however (to maintain your salinity level).

[NCNanoNewbie]

Ok, tiny details. LFS said TLC would cycle for the fish in 24 hours. (my fault I didn't research this more), I was unaware I had done anything wrong by using the tap water since it tested zero and I had successfully had this tank and a 125 tank using tap water, the 125 was full of easy to grow corals etc and thrived. I know smaller can be harder but I didn't think the water had anything to do with it at 0 across the board and conditioner.

 

Thanks for your advice but I'm not ready to take quite that drastic of steps yet, for a seemingly fine tank that could still just be cycling. Fish in cycling has been done for years. Is it the best, no, but I'm not going code red full zombie apocalypse over it. Also what good would a quarantine tank do? It wouldn't be cycled either.

 

EDIT: Also by being patient I meant with this tank. When it was setup previously I was not patient with adding corals and lighting and had some issues. I have pics of it setup previously looking great. I understand I will get varying opinions on this topic so I'm going to wait for everyone to chime in.

[Begow]

Ok, tiny details. LFS said TLC would cycle for the fish in 24 hours. (my fault I didn't research this more), I was unaware I had done anything wrong by using the tap water since it tested zero and I had successfully had this tank and a 125 tank using tap water, the 125 was full of easy to grow corals etc and thrived. I know smaller can be harder but I didn't think the water had anything to do with it at 0 across the board and conditioner.

 

Thanks for your advice but I'm not ready to take quite that drastic of steps yet, for a seemingly fine tank that could still just be cycling. Fish in cycling has been done for years. Is it the best, no, but I'm not going code red full zombie apocalypse over it. Also what good would a quarantine tank do? It wouldn't be cycled either.

 

EDIT: Also by being patient I meant with this tank. When it was setup previously I was not patient with adding corals and lighting and had some issues. I have pics of it setup previously looking great. I understand I will get varying opinions on this topic so I'm going to wait for everyone to chime in.

 

 

You torturing a fish to cycle it, isn't being patient. Do it the right way or don't do it at all. A lot of us have bee doing this for 10+ years and know what works and doesn't work. If you're going to ask for advice and then discredit it, why ask?

 

I would take the fish back, do a normal cycle and take your time. TLC doesn't work, and it never has. Dr. Tim's works great, but still takes 2-3 weeks before it is finally done.

[NCNanoNewbie]

How is the fish being tortured. Many people also say you can cycle just fine fish in. You're the FIRST person I've read that says that He swims around happily, comes out to greet me when I come to the tank. He exhibits absolutely ZERO signs of being stressed. He eats great. Phewwww starting to see what the "other" forums were talking about when referring to most of the folks here.

[cju84]

How is the fish being tortured.. He swims around happily, comes out to greet me when I come to the tank. He exhibits absolutely ZERO signs of being stressed. He eats great. Phewwww starting to see what the "other" forums were talking about when referring to most of the folks here.

 

Ammonia Toxicity (and Nitrite toxicity). Google it.

 

And by quarantine, you can get yourself a 5gallon bucket, get water from your LFS for free (or $5) and put the fish in that.

[Eisernes]

You aren't cycled enough for snails let alone a fish or water changes. Are these "other forums" run by LFS owners?

[Begow]

How is the fish being tortured. Many people also say you can cycle just fine fish in. You're the FIRST person I've read that says that He swims around happily, comes out to greet me when I come to the tank. He exhibits absolutely ZERO signs of being stressed. He eats great. Phewwww starting to see what the "other" forums were talking about when referring to most of the folks here.

 

 

Yeah, I'm sure getting hostile with people trying to help you will get you far on any "other forum". We're actually pretty friendly here, but just because you can't face being told you're wrong, doesn't mean we're being jerks. Take criticism better bro. This hobby is about learning and we're trying to tell you FACTS, not opinions. Ammonia Toxicity is a real thing and is like acid for fish.

 

Good luck though, I won't offer any more advice to somebody who is going to get bent out of shape because he doesn't know what he's doing.

[Neebles]

Wow. Maybe you should go ask the "other" forums for advice...keep asking until you get the answer you are looking for.

[NCNanoNewbie]

Thank you all for your advice.

[aquageek]

It can take a while to build up the necessary bacteria to break down ammonia and nitrite in your tank regardless of rather you added a bottle of bacteria or not. Most people tend to wait a month or so, unless they are using rocks or sand left over from a previous build (where they didn't dry out) in which case, there could be a mini cycle but it wouldn't last as long.

 

Nothing wrong with using tap water (or well water) provided the source is good and free of ammonia/nitrite/nitrate. You said that was good from your well, how is the mineral content? Having water with too much mineral content will also give you trouble - lots of coral and fish won't due well in high mineral water, as well as algae will feed off of it like mad.

 

I would take the clown out until you have fully cycled. I understand you say that he looks healthy (which is good) but I think what people are trying to say is why risk it in the first place? He could be feeling the results without showing it yet.

 

Try not to take things too personal man. People here are pretty friendly. We just don't like it when folks ask for advice and then get upset over the advice. I read through this entire thread and agree with cj. He wasn't being harsh, you said that you didn't do your research the first time and ended up tearing down your tank. You then started a new tank without research again. Take things slow, listen to advice, and do your research and you will go far.

[TheUnfocusedOne]

Noobs bashing noobs

 

Doing water changes this early on will likely slow down your cycle.

 

How old are your test kits? Did you ever see an algal bloom?

[ps2cho]

In my QT I dosed daily Microbacter7 and only saw minimal ammonia before it dropped off entirely. If you don't take the fish back, please please PLEASE go buy some Microbacter7 and dose it daily per the bottle otherwise your fish is suffering.

 

Any elevated signs of ammonia should be treated with a 50% water change immediately.

 

All of the Ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levels are proportional to water changes. Up the water changes and they will drop.

[blazerino]

OK so as you can see from the responses you got, "fish-in" cycling is definately not the recommended method and despite what you say, your fish is definately stressed out.

 

Even though you rinsed the sand and the rock several times, there is still going to be a lot of dead organic material trapped in the rock that is further spiking your ammonia. So while you may have heard of people successfully doing "fish-in" cycling (not that I recommend it), they are probably doing it with either new, clean substrate or with some amount of live rock that has limited dead organics and a healthy bacteria population. What you seem to have done here is create the perfect storm of high levels of dead organics and practically no bacteria population to deal with it.

 

The majority of the bacteria live on the surfaces of the tank (sand, live rock, glass, filter media, ext), so doing a water change will not slow down your cycle and is pretty much your only chance for keeping your fish alive.

 

I would get some bio spira to help speed up the cycle. Also, if you have access to someone with a established tank, see if you can get a scoop of sand to help seed the bacteria in your tank.

 

What concerns me the most is that your ammonia levels are still going up. This is probably caused by dead organics breaking down in the pores of the rock. If you continue to see your ammonia rise, you should really bring the fish back until the cycle is complete.

[cju84]

Noobs bashing noobs

 

Doing water changes this early on will likely slow down your cycle.

 

How old are your test kits? Did you ever see an algal bloom?

 

Is there any advice given to OP you disagree with? Just because some of us might have newer tanks, doesn't mean we haven't extensively researched.

[BRADYBUNCH7]

I agree with you

 

Is there any advice given to OP you disagree with? Just because some of us might have newer tanks, doesn't mean we haven't extensively researched.

We all are here to help and were just giving our opinions on things we've experienced. Ammonia is toxic especially at high levels. You may not see the signs in your fish but, it could be a slow and painful death. You said "This time I'm trying to be patient and do it right." that is not what your doing... Remember RESEARCH!!!!