So many overflow systems - still confused

[jgaepi]

A lot of people don't use the bean because it's a lot of drilling/holes. A more popular option is the herbie overflow. There are a lot of videos on YouTube for you to watch. Basically it's a bean with a main overflow at full siphon and a emergency drain. You use a gate or ball valve to "tune" the main drain.

The video you showed me was in an internal overflow but I need mine to be external.

 

The reason I ask about a return pump is that the overflow and pump work together. So have you decided on flow rate or type of overflow yet?

No but I would happily take a recommendation.

 

If you are concerned about the amount of space taken up by the overflow, make it an external bean. A small slim internal overflow box is all that is required inside the tank with maybe 2 drilled holes that would fill a larger box on the back that would house all the plumbing.

I want it to be external. I want something like this: back-wide_500x375.jpg I just would like the spacing between the pipes to be closer together. I have a 12" wide sump so I don't have a ton of space to play around with.

[Eckozulu]

The video you showed me was in an internal overflow but I need mine to be external.

Dude, that was just an example. The pic you showed of the bean would also be the way you do a herbie, just without the 2nd emergency. These examples are all "methods", how you implement them can be flexible. Here's a pic of how to do it with the plumbing externally.

 

 

 

Hope this helps.

[Eckozulu]

To save room in your sump area, you can do a combo of PVC and hoses. Here's an example of the standard plumbing from cadlights: the braided vinyl is the main drain, the green tubing is a return and an emergency backup.

 

[NirvanaandTool]

Also your auto top off is fed to the return chamber, its a good thing to keep a redundancy float switch for the topoff in the display so if the display level rises the top off wont come one. Essentially the top off is an extension of your return chamber volume.

 

That was my problem.

My ato kept refilling the return chamber. It was also a small tank problem. 7.5g display, 7.5g sump w. a 5g bucket for ATO. I had plenty of water volume in the sump for backfill but the ATO did me in.

[jgaepi]

Dude, that was just an example. The pic you showed of the bean would also be the way you do a herbie, just without the 2nd emergency. These examples are all "methods", how you implement them can be flexible. Here's a pic of how to do it with the plumbing externally.

 

 

 

Hope this helps.

Totally. Thanks. I read yesterday that the bean animal is only recommended for tanks above 150g.

[Eckozulu]

Glad to help bro. Can't wait to see your setup!!!!

[jservedio]

Yep, which is why the return chamber and the sump water level is so critical. I think a lot of people neglect the test to set sump level and run their sump at some arbitrary level that looks good and then are shocked if it overflows. I tested by having the display level lower than the overflows and then measuring how much the water rose before the return chamber was emptied. I have a big tank so it's not as critical as it is for smaller tanks.

 

What I don't have is float switches to turn off the sump if the water level drops too low. I run a timed topoff, not float based, so I get around the topoff float issue.

 

Oh, and of course the reverse test is to make sure you don't overflow the sump if the pump fails and the display empties into it. That ended up being what set my water level, not the return chamber amount.

By far the easiest way to ensure you never overflow, even if you botch your sump layout is a simple float switch hidden in your overflow box connected to your return pump. Since it won't constantly be switching, you don't have to worry about them failing randomly. If the DT is going to overflow, the box will fill up and the switch will float shutting down the return pump and will also prevent your ATO from turning on ince the sump will be at high level. For $20 you will never have a flood even in an emergency situation.

 

Since having a herbie for a couple years I've had things fail twice (both while I wasn't home) and my float switch ended up saving me once when some crap got caught in the gate valve. If you run a siphon drain, you will have a problem at some point (most likely a broken gate valve - they don't like being constantly adjusted).

[Skuba]

As far as having minimal water in the return to prevent overflow in the DT, ATO is a major player for that. I run at least a 5g resivoir and I don't want any floats in the DT, kinda defeats the purpose of the sump.

 

Good luck with your choice!!!

Was just gonna add a comment about if you run a ATO then the idea of minimal water in your return chamber is irrelevant. Depending on your sump design. Using a eshoppes rs75 sump this strategy wouldn't work for me. Unless I made my ATO reservoir very small.

I had only 1 incident with a glass holes overflow, stupid pistol shrimp kicked so much sand up it clogged the overflow box. Luckily I was home and pulled the plug seconds before disaster struck. Needless to say, his destructive a** is no longer with us.

[jservedio]

Was just gonna add a comment about if you run a ATO then the idea of minimal water in your return chamber is irrelevant. Depending on your sump design. Using a eshoppes rs75 sump this strategy wouldn't work for me. Unless I made my ATO reservoir very small.

I had only 1 incident with a glass holes overflow, stupid pistol shrimp kicked so much sand up it clogged the overflow box. Luckily I was home and pulled the plug seconds before disaster struck. Needless to say, his destructive a** is no longer with us.

 

No it isn't - I run a big resovoir and even if my herbie failed, my float switch and GRI failed, my ATO would STILL not flood the tank since it is on a timer. You should roughly know what your ATO is using in a given 24 hour period (and if you don't know, bad on you) and the GPH rating of your pump - this should tell you how long it needs to be on total. Allow the pump to run 20-30% more time that it is needed, broken up throughout the day, and even with a big ATO res you will never flood.

 

I run a 3 gph pump throttled down to about 50% on my ATO and a simple mechanical timer with 15 minute increments that was $12 works great.

[Skuba]

 

No it isn't - I run a big resovoir and even if my herbie failed, my float switch and GRI failed, my ATO would STILL not flood the tank since it is on a timer. You should roughly know what your ATO is using in a given 24 hour period (and if you don't know, bad on you) and the GPH rating of your pump - this should tell you how long it needs to be on total. Allow the pump to run 20-30% more time that it is needed, broken up throughout the day, and even with a big ATO res you will never flood.

 

I run a 3 gph pump throttled down to about 50% on my ATO and a simple mechanical timer with 15 minute increments that was $12 works great.

I'm using a tunze osmolator which I Beleive automatically shuts after a few minutes in case of that exact situation

 

And using a glassholes nano I couldn't fit a float in there but that is a good idea

[jgaepi]

So, tank is ordered. I ordered a 29x18x12 custom low iron tank from PicO. Chris is going to give me a Herbie drain/internal overflow box. Thank you everyone for your recommendations. When I started this thread I was thinking GlassHoles. But you all gave me an appreciation for a redundant emergency drain. Then I looked at the Bean Animal but you all pointed out the need for extra drilled holes. Now the Herbie drain. I am pretty excited. And get to wait nearly 12 weeks for it to be done and shipped ...

[jservedio]

I'm using a tunze osmolator which I Beleive automatically shuts after a few minutes in case of that exact situation

 

And using a glassholes nano I couldn't fit a float in there but that is a good idea

 

Use a pressure tube switch - it'll easily fit in there. Avast has them for less than a bill.

 

As an alternative, you can put your float switch in the return chamber and if it gets below a certain point (where the pump would start to run dry), you shut off the return and ATO. It is basically the inverse of putting a float switch on the DT to stop an overflow - you put the float on the sump to prevent a run-dry. If you do this, use a pressure tube or regularly test/replace your float switch since they don't last as long when fully submerged in SW.

[Skuba]

 

Use a pressure tube switch - it'll easily fit in there. Avast has them for less than a bill.

 

As an alternative, you can put your float switch in the return chamber and if it gets below a certain point (where the pump would start to run dry), you shut off the return and ATO. It is basically the inverse of putting a float switch on the DT to stop an overflow - you put the float on the sump to prevent a run-dry. If you do this, use a pressure tube or regularly test/replace your float switch since they don't last as long when fully submerged in SW.

Can you pm me a link to a similar setup to follow?

[jservedio]

Can you pm me a link to a similar setup to follow?

 

Just google "Avast Marine Pressure Switch" - you can select whatever options you want. They are $67/ea with a relay and all wired up. If you aren't sure what you need, just call or e-mail Avast and tell them exactly what you want to do and they will build you whatever you need.

 

If you want a run-dry protection setup (the "inverse" thing I was talking about) you can also use a pressure switch, but you can also do it more cheaply with float switches. You can use "autotopoff.com" and have them build you whatever you need. The owner is awesome and will help you design your system and build it for you - pretty cheaply. I think my return shutoff system was about $40 shipped with a mount, but that was a couple years ago.

 

Both Avast and AutoTopoff.com have amazing customer service, solid products, and will customize whatever you need.

[Eckozulu]

So, tank is ordered. I ordered a 29x18x12 custom low iron tank from PicO. Chris is going to give me a Herbie drain/internal overflow box. Thank you everyone for your recommendations. When I started this thread I was thinking GlassHoles. But you all gave me an appreciation for a redundant emergency drain. Then I looked at the Bean Animal but you all pointed out the need for extra drilled holes. Now the Herbie drain. I am pretty excited. And get to wait nearly 12 weeks for it to be done and shipped ...

Congrats bro!!! Love pic0 tanks. Can't wait to see it.

[Skuba]

 

Just google "Avast Marine Pressure Switch" - you can select whatever options you want. They are $67/ea with a relay and all wired up. If you aren't sure what you need, just call or e-mail Avast and tell them exactly what you want to do and they will build you whatever you need.

 

If you want a run-dry protection setup (the "inverse" thing I was talking about) you can also use a pressure switch, but you can also do it more cheaply with float switches. You can use "autotopoff.com" and have them build you whatever you need. The owner is awesome and will help you design your system and build it for you - pretty cheaply. I think my return shutoff system was about $40 shipped with a mount, but that was a couple years ago.

 

Both Avast and AutoTopoff.com have amazing customer service, solid products, and will customize whatever you need.

Awesome. Thanks