New DIY LED light questions

[dacianb]

Sorry to everybody for such a long absence from my post here, but due some other issues, my led project was posponed until now - but the idea didnt died .

In the meantime I red a lot about this subject and also worked seriously on this.

I almost finalized the design of MCPCB, ordered some mechanical parts / components and also waiting for the cooling system.

Each such board have 41 Osram Oslon Signal LEDs (including cyan and converted blue) and 4 Luxeon UV ( 2x 405-410 nm and 2x 415-420nm range) with a total of 140-150W (depend by voltage bins of LEDs)

With this concept I can mount easily 600W / meter in a slim design, extremly silent system.

100x90 mm boards with a max 150W.

I will return with more details soon

[jedimasterben]

Good lord that's a lot of light in a tiny space! Better have some crazy cooling!

[dacianb]

I made already some tests on such cooling system - same size as the board, at 180W load keeps the system less than 50°C at ambient of 25°C. Noise level under 15db - so practically cannot hear it.

 

I don't use aluminium extrusion, of course - will never work.

[dacianb]

But my main question for the specialists around - the spectrum - is it OK for SW tanks? Or some changes are required? I would like to order the boards asap...

[jedimasterben]

But my main question for the specialists around - the spectrum - is it OK for SW tanks? Or some changes are required? I would like to order the boards asap...

Will it grow corals? Absolutely, any light will. Non-fluorescent color, though, will depend on the quality of the white LEDs. IMHO Osram is not known for great color like Philips. Not saying that you can't get emitters that have good color, but IMHO Philips sets the bar.

[dacianb]

Will it grow corals? Absolutely, any light will. Non-fluorescent color, though, will depend on the quality of the white LEDs. IMHO Osram is not known for great color like Philips. Not saying that you can't get emitters that have good color, but IMHO Philips sets the bar.

Thank you Jedimasterben... but why? Try to put datasheets (spectral emission) of any Philips LED and Osram LEDs at the same Kelvin together and you will see that are completely identical.

I used there NEUTRAL whites ( 5500K) from Osram together with Converted Blue, Cyan, Deep Red, Normal Blue - to fill in the gaps of pure white distribution.

[jedimasterben]

Thank you Jedimasterben... but why? Try to put datasheets (spectral emission) of any Philips LED and Osram LEDs at the same Kelvin together and you will see that are completely identical.

I used there NEUTRAL whites ( 5500K) from Osram together with Converted Blue, Cyan, Deep Red, Normal Blue - to fill in the gaps of pure white distribution.

Datasheets only show the 'general' spectral curve for the line, not the individual LED. Philips LEDs have some of the best color in the industry.

 

You're much better off using a lower-kelvin high-CRI Philips for your white (or a mixture of higher NW and 2700-3000K 90CRI minimum whites) and I would not forget to include Rebel ES or Luxeon Z lime, it would be sorely missed from your array. A high-CRI white LED removes the need for any red or deep red LEDs, as they tend to peak in the 600-630nm range and cover the entirety of red very well.

 

Dedicated red LEDs are distracting.

[dacianb]

Thanks again... I will look deeper into.

 

 

[Benny314]

If your looking for inspiration with layouts. This was the final array set up I decided on after many hours trawling forums and internet articles.

Turned out like this as I was able to get 12mm pcbs for my RB and NW.

Went with what's now a bit of an old set up. 2:1:1 Royal Blue : Neutral White : Violet, with Ocean Coral White as supplement, I used 430nm True Violet for pop and PUR. Oh and a 470nm Blue for moon light. I put 80 degree optics on the RB, NW and TV as they're lighting a 24" deep tank. I went with 3 clusters of 2 RB 1 NW and 3 TV to each OCW and found 2 of these groupings fitted nicely on my heat sink.
The heat sinks are 160mm x 160mm x 25mm pin heat sinks with a 120mm fan strapped to them.
They don't seem to suffer disco effects as they're so closely grouped, but being on a small heat sink with 80 degree optics they are a bit like spot lights, I think I have fixed this by removing the optics on the outer blues and whites and inner violets.

I haven't finished my controller yet, but I was able to make everything run at 75% and got this as a result and decided to remove some optics.


Tanks not full as the scape was still cycling and all my stock from my pervious tank is living in the sump.

This was before I have removed the optics, you can see what I mean about spot lights and dark corners. The camera phone makes it look more purple than it is in person, and it also makes the spotting look worse, it is quite evenly lit in person, but removing the optics has improved light in the left corner and under the over hangs, but I still have the punch to reach the bottom of the tank. I have also re-angled the arrays a bit too as the tank is 3 sides viewable and my aquascape has proved interesting to light.
Everything at the same out put is actually quite a pleasing blue shade, maybe a bit blue for my taste. But the colour balance overall is great with the 2:1:1 ratio and 6 OCW in total.

 

Edit: With the optics removed for comparison.

[bob115]

I noticed you're ordering custom MCPCB. Where does one get such an animal? Or even a blank one to etch yourself? I've been looking for quite some time but gave up months ago when all I could find were production sized quantities.

[dacianb]

I noticed you're ordering custom MCPCB. Where does one get such an animal? Or even a blank one to etch yourself? I've been looking for quite some time but gave up months ago when all I could find were production sized quantities.

Hi Bob,

 

I dont know where are you from, but companies as Eurocircuits do protos with online price calculator. All you need is a well made gerber file, but those have also a online check tool for boards. Are quite expensive, but works nice for small qty.

 

http://www.eurocircuits.com, then choose your country / price calculator and then you can choose between metal core boards or standard FR

[dacianb]

Thanks Benny314. Nice setup, very nice tank scape.

But I try to avoid wires as much possible, this is why I am going for custom board. A bit higher costs, but more elegant and I can lower a lot distance between LEDs. Good color mix, no needs for optics.

Next question of my project.... CONTROLLERS .

I plan to use Coralux Storm to control the lights. Is this good enough? Are there better options on same price range? I need only 3 channels.

[dacianb]

Finally I received the approval for the gerber files from a friend with more knowledge in electronics (he just checked if everything is OK on the design I made) . Now I can order the boards and start the build

 

 

[Horerczy]

Looks like 4 smaller packages (Luxeon z?) And 41 3535 packages.

[farkwar]

If youre going to use the Storm, why 5 channels on board??

 

Storm has 6 and 16 channels(X).

 

I would use them all, myself, and split the X at 8 channels. Violets on their own, at least. Either going to run the violets hot or the blues cool.

[dacianb]

Looks like 4 smaller packages (Luxeon z?) And 41 3535 packages.

 

Smaller packages are Luxeon UVs. All the other are Osram Oslon footprints

 

If youre going to use the Storm, why 5 channels on board??

 

Storm has 6 and 16 channels(X).

 

I would use them all, myself, and split the X at 8 channels. Violets on their own, at least. Either going to run the violets hot or the blues cool.

 

Thanks. Is quite important to have this split between UV and Deep Blue? I put them on same channel as an actinic channel.

[SpencerShepard]

Or, better yet, why not a Bluefish controller?

[farkwar]

You dont have to. No, not important.

 

No one else does. I would, Especially Zs, iirc the max on them is 1050mA. If i put $20 diodes on a board, i wouldn't want to run them that hot.

 

Violets just arent like other LEDs, I would put them on their own channel. Since they do not contribute to strip clubbing, they dont really have to be on the main board, even. RLL has a separate violet board(with a 450 blue), I believe Daves little daughter board is violet.

 

You can put them anywhere. And you have an extra channel on the controller, already.

[dacianb]

Or, better yet, why not a Bluefish controller?

just because is 4 times more expensive?? . I need a decent controller to turn on and off some channels.

[dacianb]

You dont have to. No, not important.

 

No one else does. I would, Especially Zs, iirc the max on them is 1050mA. If i put $20 diodes on a board, i wouldn't want to run them that hot.

 

Violets just arent like other LEDs, I would put them on their own channel. Since they do not contribute to strip clubbing, they dont really have to be on the main board, even. RLL has a separate violet board(with a 450 blue), I believe Daves little daughter board is violet.

 

You can put them anywhere. And you have an extra channel on the controller, already.

Thanks farkwar. Is a good thing to know. But already I ordered the board... so a bit late now to change it . Maybe version 2 ?

About temperature, don't worry, everything will be less than 50°C due to nice cooling system I made for.

[dacianb]

Finally back from winter holiday and I think is time to post the status of my project...

First change is the led board... right after order them I decided to modify things a bit, lucky me I was able to change the order. Basically I split the LEDs on 6 channels

thanks to some suggestions I received from nice forum members and added a bit more power (around 160W now).

I expect the boards next week.

Channel 1 - up to 5 Luxeon UV LEDs- can choose any wavelenghts with steps of 5nm.

Channel 2 - 9x Deep Blue Osram Signal or SSL

Channel 3 - 9 LEDs - but this time a mix of Deep Blue and Converted Blue LEDs (new leds with an interesting spectra - visually are like regular blue, but have a large emission in deep blue range)

Channel 4 - 6 LEDs - 4 Osram Blue and 2 Osram cyan (they call them verde)

Channel 5 - 9 LEDs - cold white channel, but is a mixt of neutral white with high CRI and converted blue leds (really nice result, as I tested already)

Channel 6 - 9 LEDs - warm white channel - with probably 1 deep red led. For whites I will use 3500-4000K range with top CRI selection (95), for a great color rendering effect

[dacianb]

Next step about fixture itself...

I design things and order parts for a 2x400mm fixtures, but after cutting things I had some left overs, so I will do a short light too

Fixtures itself are 40x14.5 cm and 2x led engines ( 320W ) long one and 20 x 14.5 cm and 1x led engine ( 160 W )short one.

Everything is black, of course, but top and side covers can be customized in any imaginable way as are 3D printed and painted. Sides are anodized aluminium profiles

All parts and components used are top quality most made in western Europe.

Cooling story... actually everyting is build around the cooling system. For such high power and also to keep everything light and small was a bit of challenge.

I use two heatsinks on large version and one on small one, pure copper with ultra high density fins and vapor chamber techology.

I have already the fans in tests... 92x14mm ultra silent (13db) with 150 000 working hours (actually 50% more than leds) and 6 years warranty. Fans are mounted

with thermal switch, so will be on at 50°C on board and off at 35°C.

For the long version, fan is integrated into system, for short one (not in the picture) but is mounted on top. Anyway, being so narrow is quite nice looking.

For the air intake I opted of a Y shaped flow with tulburence generators components.

the design of the top side is not really finalized from aesthetic point, but I will work it out in next days... suggestions?

[BBP]

I saw that you mentioned using LSD (light shaping diffuser). Are you planning on using it with this build? I would love to see the how it would work with a reef tank. I have built a DIY LED light for my reef, the LED's are spread out from each other but still slightly give off that "disco ball effect". I am interested in trying it. Where would you order from?

[dacianb]

I saw that you mentioned using LSD (light shaping diffuser). Are you planning on using it with this build? I would love to see the how it would work with a reef tank. I have built a DIY LED light for my reef, the LED's are spread out from each other but still slightly give off that "disco ball effect". I am interested in trying it. Where would you order from?

The initial idea was to use LEDs at higher distance and add this LSD on the system to uniform the spectral outcome.

 

But then I remade the board with small distance between leds, now everything should look better. As a backup plan, yes, I will come back to the idea.

I tested elliptical diffuses from http://www.luminitco.com/ and are AMAZING - but price wise not cheap. Also have to take into account that temperature and mechanical stress can damage the micro structures.

Indeed the led modules outcome through those LSDs is completely uniform (using large angles) and looks really like T5s

 

I buy them from www.acalbfi.com - but thats a Belgium company... Luminit is US co, so you should look for distributors around. Or try out cheaper asian versions

 

 

I saw that you mentioned using LSD (light shaping diffuser). Are you planning on using it with this build? I would love to see the how it would work with a reef tank. I have built a DIY LED light for my reef, the LED's are spread out from each other but still slightly give off that "disco ball effect". I am interested in trying it. Where would you order from?

 

 

 

 

http://www.enlightermagazine.com/market-news/luminit-light-shaping - here is a picture of a led matrix (similar with average reef lights) with and without LSD.... see the difference?

 

on the other hand you will have to use extra power to compensate the large spread of the light. Forget about collimators.

[jedimasterben]

FYI, the 'converted blue' that you're planning on using doesn't have a wider blue spectra, it only has phosphor applied to cover some green, so basically a 'white' LED with no red, and VERY little flux. http://www.osram-os.com/Graphics/XPic7/00127106_0.pdf/LCB%20CRBP%20-%20OSLON%20Signal.pdf