High Alkalinity Problem.. Help!

[aviator300]

OK guys and gals, Ever since I started reefiing a long, long time ago (like 8 months ago HaHa), I have always had Alkalinity between 11 and 13. Most people say "no problem, your tanks are still new" but i've been reading that coral grows best at a DKH of 7-9 and levels over 10 or so can stunt growth.

 

I have also have a PH issue to go along with the high DKH but I dont know if they are related or not.

I'm pretty sure the low PH (7.5 to 7.7 night and day) is a problem with high CO2 levels in my apt due to living in AZ and having a closed apt (to hot to open windows).

 

Any way, here is the numbers.

 

Bottled distilled water mixed with Red Sea Coral Pro Salt. tanks are generally between 5 and 10 gal.

 

Corals. Zoas, LPS, Palys, and Ricordia.

 

1 clownfish, 1 cleaner shrimp, and cuc.

 

Spgr 1.025

PH 7.58

Dkh 12 to 13

no ammonia or nitrites.

Nitrates 4.0

PO4 0

Ca 465

Mg 1420

 

Feed coral 2x week with "Rods" coral mix + Seachem Reef plus + Kent Microvert + Two little fishes Zooplan and 1 small drop iodine.

 

Hopefully someone out there can look at this post and offer their assessment and suggestions.

[NorthGaHillbilly]

that red see is your problem I expect, its a HOT salt, i stopped using it because of that. You can also take and have your skimmer pull from outside to raise the PH, if youve got a skimmer running.

[atrox]

Deff salt, the absorption rate for trace elements like alk and ca isn't high in you're tank so when you use a salt like that you're adding more than you need. Id venture to guess that by the time you're ready to do a water change your adding to ca, mag, and alk so you're levels will be consistently high. I'd slowly transition into using a new salt. As long as you're other tank parameters are in check I'd just hold off on water changes until you see levels starting to lower to a desired level and then do smaller water changes with another more stable salt.

[NorthGaHillbilly]

Deff salt, the absorption rate for trace elements like alk and ca isn't high in you're tank so when you use a salt like that you're adding more than you need. Id venture to guess that by the time you're ready to do a water change your adding to ca, mag, and alk so you're levels will be consistently high. I'd slowly transition into using a new salt. As long as you're other tank parameters are in check I'd just hold off on water changes until you see levels starting to lower to a desired level and then do smaller water changes with another more stable salt.

folks can knock it all they want, but I dig my reef crystals

[atrox]

That's what I use sir and I get the bucket off amazon for 58 bucks shipped!

 

folks can knock it all they want, but I dig my reef crystals

Preach brother

[aviator300]

Hey you two, I totally agree with your assessment. With only 8 months experience, I still consider myself somewhat of a beginner but i'm starting to develop a working knowledge of water chemistry and how many things interact with each other.

 

For instance, i've used RSCP salt from the beginning because it is a "hot salt" and as a newbee i wanted to make certain that i had enough Calcium, Magnesium, and all the other stuff to help my corals (mostly small frags with no SPS) grow. I read many posts saying how great that salt was and how it reduced the need to dose and also read posts about large frequent water changes being best.

 

I was a pretty smart newbee huh? I mean how could i go wrong doing frequent large water changes with RSCP salt right?? WRONG.

 

Only now am i starting to understand what i was doing wrong (with you guys help...). The RSCP salt was adding tons of CA, Mag, etc and my frequent large water changes combined with very low demand from my small frags was causing the alkalinity, CA. and Mg to keep rising with very little to use it up.

 

After hearing your ideas and the fact that you agree with each other, I'm going to switch to IO Reef Crystals over several water changes and also reduce those changes from 30% each week to about 15 to 20% weekly.

 

Could you give me some idea what to expect (such as PH, DKH, Ca + Mg, etc from IO RC. Thanks for al your help..AVIATOR300

[RollaJase]

Red Sea Coral Pro mixes in at between 11.5dKH and 12dKH, says so on the bag/bucket. I used it to start with as well, for over 18months and then backed off to water changes every 2 weeks, the Alk swings that this caused killed off all of my SPS corals. With that said, my SPS corals and my tank looked absolutely amazing with Alk at these levels, its when it started moving around that it caused the issues. My Cal and Mag were pretty stable at 450ppm and 1300ppm also. I now do a 45/55 mix of RS Coral Pro and RS Marine Salt (commonly referred to as 'blue bucket') which gives me an Alk of about 9.5dKH, this is what I am striving to achieve at the moment.

[farkwar]

Alk is definitely related to pH

 

[atrox]

I do 5 gallon water changes every 7-9 days in my 40 breeder with a 26 gallon sump.

I set my salinty based on refractometer but honestly after mixing batches I learned that 2 1/4 cups gets me close.

 

Mag tests 1400-1460

Alk will vary on each bucket, but usually 8-9.0 dkh

Ca is 440-470

I don't test ph but tanks runs at 8.0-8.2 before and right after wc.

Always add the salt to the full amount of water RC can precipitate quickly and will make the mix eternally cloudy with fine particulate. always get it in a bucket or be able to store it humidity free. It will clump and is then useless.

 

I've used instant ocean reef crystals for years and the fact that its usually in stock at petco or petsmart it makes it a good choice if you ever run low or get in a pinch. I get mine off of amazon it's much cheaper.

 

I also dose kalkwasser to keep those levels consistent so in essence I could go much, much longer between water changes but I prefer to do it weekly.

 

Consistency in levels is just as important as the levels. You'll see tanks with 10 dkh or 7 dkh. Find a level you are shooting for and keep it. The key is stability.

 

****unless you can test iodine don't add it. I've never used it but I never add any element I can't test.

[GMay]

I use RSCP salts for my tank so that I don't have to add other things for optimal growth. I do 10% water change weekly, and the only issue I have is that the coraline algae consumes alk at a rate of 0.3 dKH per day. I compensated for that by adding sodium carbonate and have been able to maintain alk at 7 to 8 dKH ever since. With the regular water changes my calcium has been relatively stable at about 400 ppm.

 

Large and frequent water changes are good for any system but RSCP salts are not optimized for that kind of maintanance. You could save yourself alot of work by going with smaller and less frequent water changes. You can then monitor how your tank uses alk and calcium over time, and then plan how to dose what is being used.

 

You said that calcium and magnesium are rising but that is impossible if you are doing large and frquent water changes, and same would be true for alk. At the very best they would remain constant.

 

Good Luck!

[atrox]

Why is it impossible to have rising mag and ca?

[Nano sapiens]

Why is it impossible to have rising mag and ca?

 

Very little is desolved from the substrate, so even if none of your organisms were to use Cal, Alk and Mag the level would only get to be as high as the salt used (assuming no dosing, of course). As you take water out and replace during the WC, you have an exchange of like for like, not a cumulative increase. Evaporation is handled by pure fresh water, so nothing added there, either.

[GMay]

+1

The only way for it to increase would be through loss of water through evaporation and not topping off with fresh.

[aviator300]

Red Sea Coral Pro mixes in at between 11.5dKH and 12dKH, says so on the bag/bucket. I used it to start with as well, for over 18months and then backed off to water changes every 2 weeks, the Alk swings that this caused killed off all of my SPS corals. With that said, my SPS corals and my tank looked absolutely amazing with Alk at these levels, its when it started moving around that it caused the issues. My Cal and Mag were pretty stable at 450ppm and 1300ppm also. I now do a 45/55 mix of RS Coral Pro and RS Marine Salt (commonly referred to as 'blue bucket') which gives me an Alk of about 9.5dKH, this is what I am striving to achieve at the moment.

Now that seems like a great thing to do especially on a new tank when corals are small and then raise the DKH as the tank matures and includes SPS which would put more demand on DKH, Ca, Mg, etc? you could then just increase the amount of Coral Pro in the mix..

[RollaJase]

Now that seems like a great thing to do especially on a new tank when corals are small and then raise the DKH as the tank matures and includes SPS which would put more demand on DKH, Ca, Mg, etc? you could then just increase the amount of Coral Pro in the mix..

It could really go either way. For example, if your are aiming for an alk of 9dKH and you are doing weekly water changes with RSCP your Alk will still spike up before falling down over the course of the next week. This will cause issues and realistically an alk swing of 2dKH either way (up or down) can crash a tank. I have dialed in my salt mix so it mixes in at 9.5dKH and do fortnightly water changes purely to remove nutrients from the water. I have to dose the equivalent of 1.2dKH each day to keep my Alk levels stable and add minor amounts of Cal and Mag to keep everything in line. After the issues I have had I would recommend simply picking a salt that you like which gives you the trace element levels you are wanting and dose on top of that to keep things stable. Initially, for probably the first 6-8 months you probably would have no issues keeping levels stable with a weekly water change.