Jump to content


Photo

10 watts LEDs


  • Please log in to reply
16 replies to this topic

#1
gamezawy

gamezawy

    Nano Reefer

  • Members
  • 24 posts
  • Joined 12 Apr 2012

Hi

I want to build a led lighting for my 120 gallon tank it is fish only now but i want to turn it into reef so i have found 10 Watt LEDS on EBay i want to ask about it

So have any one of you guys tried this 10 watt leds

the LED page


Description :

10W Cool White Led Super bright 900lm LED Lamp

Lens Color : Water Clear
Emitted Color : Cool White
Intensity Typ. : 800-900Lm
Viewing Angle : 160
Forward Voltage : 9-11V
Forward Current : 1000mA
Color Temperature: 20000K

So have any one tested it or know if it is good for reef ? and is it better than the Cree XML LED as the XML best Color Temperature is 8000k only and so expensive and the drivers are expensive to and you have to mix between Whites and blues but this 10 watt leds are 20000k

this is my 1st thread in this great forum so please don't let me down

Edited by gamezawy, 12 April 2012 - 04:49 AM.


#2
Veng

Veng

    Disaster Inc.

  • Premium Members
  • 5,846 posts
  • Joined 06 Jan 2012
I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding here. You mix Royal Blue and Neutral White ratios to change the color temperature of an LED setup. You use the Neutral White instead of the Cool white to get a wider spectrum, and even then people are adding more "exotic" LEDs to pick up the parts of the spectrum that aren't in RB or NW. It's not about "having to" mix RB and NW to get a spectrum color, it's about getting all the colors to show up in your tank.

I can't see the link to your ebay light from work, so I don't know what this LED is. I would guess it is a very narrow spectrum that will not show all the wonderful colors in a fish tank.

#3
geaston

geaston

    Nano Reefer

  • Members
  • 5 posts
  • Joined 03 Oct 2011
There is a big thread on another forum that talks about these multi chips. They are using 100w, 50w, 20w and the 10w chips. They seem to be picking up steam with people trying them out more and more.

Im not sure if I can post this link or not so I will check out the forum rules and get back to you.


Here is that link

Edited by geaston, 12 April 2012 - 06:42 AM.


#4
gamezawy

gamezawy

    Nano Reefer

  • Members
  • 24 posts
  • Joined 12 Apr 2012
thank you for your answer Veng but what i am really asking , is this leds are good for healthy reef growing

i am asking about its Efficiency

and what you think about mixing RB , NW and cool Whites with 20000k as 1:1:1

here are its pic

Posted Image

#5
jedimasterben

jedimasterben

    LED world domination!

  • Premium Members
  • 18,983 posts
  • Joined 18 Jan 2012
  • Okeechobee, FL
Those larger generic LEDs are not efficient. If you want efficiency and high wattage, go CREE XM-L or Bridgelux BXRA 950-B.

You don't want anything higher than 6500k, with 4000-4500k for white being the best for color rendering. If you get any 20000k, your coral colors will be ridiculously washed out, and your tank water will have an eerie ghost-white look to it.

These types of LEDs will work, and sometimes they can work well if done correctly, but do your research first. I did some research before buying my setup from Aquastyle, and although I like it, I could have gotten away for less money and better looking light if I had gone with a smaller number of XM-L or high-powered Bridgelux.

What size tank will this be going over?

EDIT: Duh, that was in the OP. 120g standard, so 48x24x24, pretty easy to light up. What kind of corals are you planning on keeping?

Edited by jedimasterben, 12 April 2012 - 07:09 AM.


#6
blasterman

blasterman

    Nano Reefer

  • Members
  • 1,815 posts
  • Joined 12 Aug 2009

is this leds are good for healthy reef growing

i am asking about its Efficiency

and what you think about mixing RB , NW and cool Whites with 20000k as 1:1:1


Yes, they'll grow coral. So will any bright white LED for that matter. These arrays are basically just grids of 1watt LED's soldered together, the Chinese can make them as big as they can and given labor rates in China that's why they are cheaper the bigger they get.

Satistronics sells these things, and lists specs for them at 600-700 lumens at 10watts which I find a bit high given I have several of them, but let's assume they put out 600-700 lumens at cool-white. According to 5th grade math (or inner city Junior College) 650 lumens /divided by/ 10watts = 65 lumens per watt.

A Cree XP-G puts out ~139lumens at one watt.

Ok, pop quiz time: somebody tell me which one is more efficient? I don't have a degree in engineering so I'm not sure if 139 is greater than 65.

From a price per lumen perspective the Satistronics sells for $7.00 - $15 depending on what chinese site is selling them on E-bay. You can get a pair of XP-G's for around $9.00 and they'll match or exceed the out-put of the 10watt Chinese LED running at less than 6watts total.

As for color, these Chinese LED's are all over the place. I own several, and can back this up. It may be 5500k, or 12,000k. It's chinese, and they don't care. They use the closest phosphor recipe they can steal from their American manufacturers and guess. I've had Chinese manufacturers actually send me LED's and have me test them because they *don't know* what the color temp is.

Ok, lets take the larger 50-100watt verisons, and the thread on Reef Central. Bridgelux sells large arrays that get at least 100watts per lumen, and up to 7,000 lumens total. They beat the 50watt-100watt Chinese arrays on every angle, although if you dig around on Fleabay you'll find the Chinese arrays sold for rock bottom prices.

I've seen 10watt Chinese arrays that use a mix of royal and white for $1.25 (at least an attempt at being innovative), so even compared to other 10watt Chinese LED's it's a rip-off.

Edited by blasterman, 12 April 2012 - 08:54 AM.


#7
gamezawy

gamezawy

    Nano Reefer

  • Members
  • 24 posts
  • Joined 12 Apr 2012
i am aiming for hard corals

well blasterman you mean i better go full cree XML ?

and about XML as it suppose to be the best cree led tell now i have read in its data sheet that it gives 100 lumen per watt so is the XP-G led better than the XML ?

and if i will go with the XML cree or the XP-G leds what is the ratio betwheen the whites and the blue leds ?

#8
jedimasterben

jedimasterben

    LED world domination!

  • Premium Members
  • 18,983 posts
  • Joined 18 Jan 2012
  • Okeechobee, FL

i am aiming for hard corals

well blasterman you mean i better go full cree XML ?

and about XML as it suppose to be the best cree led tell now i have read in its data sheet that it gives 100 lumen per watt so is the XP-G led better than the XML ?

and if i will go with the XML cree or the XP-G leds what is the ratio betwheen the whites and the blue leds ?

The XP-G can go a maximum of 1.5A in current, so that puts it at roughly 380lm of light output, using 5w of power, so 76lm/w. XM-L can be run all the way up to 3A, so twice the amount of current. Maximum light output at 3A is 845lm, using 10w of power, so 84.5lm/w. It is more efficient (especially if run below 3A), but it really shines when it is run hard. :)

As for how many of each LED, that depends on how much current you run through them. If you do XP-G at 1A, I would do two CREE XT-E royal blue at 1A, as well. If you do XM-L at 2A, I would do use four XT-E at 1A. If you do XM-L at 3A, I would use five XT-E at 1A. Royals would all be clustered around the whites.



I'm assuming that you mean SPS when you say "hard corals", because most corals are hard. :)

For SPS in a 180g tank that is 48x24x24, I would do 10x clusters of the following:

1x CREE XM-L neutral white @ 3A
5x CREE XT-E royal blue 450-455nm @ 1A (or 4x Luxeon Rebel ES royal blue 440nm @ 1A)
1x Ocean Coral White @ 500ma (this is an exotic LED that contains deep red 660nm, turquoise 495nm, and cool blue 470nm, will make colors screeeeeaaaaammmm)
1x High-voltage True Violet 420nm @ 500ma (this is another exotic, 420nm is where most photosynthesis takes place, so coral growth will be very accelerated, and these again help make coral colors pop)

You can run each on a dimmable driver to achieve what color balance looks better in your eyes, but with everything at 100%, you should have roughly a 12,000K metal halide look, with a hint of fiji purple T5 color from the violet LEDs. With the whites being at 3A and having the high voltage true violets, you will have incredible PAR numbers, so you'd be able to keep any corals you want (so long as your tank meets the other requirements, of course).

I would cluster them like so:
---------------------------------------
---------------------------------------
-------X-------X-------X-------X-------
---------------------------------------
-----------X---------------X-----------
---------------------------------------
-------X-------X-------X-------X-------
---------------------------------------
---------------------------------------

#9
zemuss

zemuss

    Nano Reefer

  • Members
  • 1,300 posts
  • Joined 03 Apr 2009
  • Ft. Lauderdale.
Jedi,

Where can I find the above leds? Or better yet where would you purchase them?

#10
jedimasterben

jedimasterben

    LED world domination!

  • Premium Members
  • 18,983 posts
  • Joined 18 Jan 2012
  • Okeechobee, FL

Jedi,

Where can I find the above leds? Or better yet where would you purchase them?

The CREE and exotics would be from LEDGroupBuy, the Rebel ES would be from Steve's LEDs. The OCW isn't out for another two weeks, and the high voltage violet isn't out yet (maybe another two weeks).

#11
zemuss

zemuss

    Nano Reefer

  • Members
  • 1,300 posts
  • Joined 03 Apr 2009
  • Ft. Lauderdale.
I don't need these color combo's for another month or so but will need a source.

Thanks!

#12
Milad LEDGroupBuy.com

Milad LEDGroupBuy.com

    LED Police

  • Sponsor
  • 2,313 posts
  • Joined 10 Jan 2011
  • St Louis

Yes, they'll grow coral. So will any bright white LED for that matter. These arrays are basically just grids of 1watt LED's soldered together, the Chinese can make them as big as they can and given labor rates in China that's why they are cheaper the bigger they get.

Satistronics sells these things, and lists specs for them at 600-700 lumens at 10watts which I find a bit high given I have several of them, but let's assume they put out 600-700 lumens at cool-white. According to 5th grade math (or inner city Junior College) 650 lumens /divided by/ 10watts = 65 lumens per watt.

A Cree XP-G puts out ~139lumens at one watt.

Ok, pop quiz time: somebody tell me which one is more efficient? I don't have a degree in engineering so I'm not sure if 139 is greater than 65.

From a price per lumen perspective the Satistronics sells for $7.00 - $15 depending on what chinese site is selling them on E-bay. You can get a pair of XP-G's for around $9.00 and they'll match or exceed the out-put of the 10watt Chinese LED running at less than 6watts total.

As for color, these Chinese LED's are all over the place. I own several, and can back this up. It may be 5500k, or 12,000k. It's chinese, and they don't care. They use the closest phosphor recipe they can steal from their American manufacturers and guess. I've had Chinese manufacturers actually send me LED's and have me test them because they *don't know* what the color temp is.

Ok, lets take the larger 50-100watt verisons, and the thread on Reef Central. Bridgelux sells large arrays that get at least 100watts per lumen, and up to 7,000 lumens total. They beat the 50watt-100watt Chinese arrays on every angle, although if you dig around on Fleabay you'll find the Chinese arrays sold for rock bottom prices.

I've seen 10watt Chinese arrays that use a mix of royal and white for $1.25 (at least an attempt at being innovative), so even compared to other 10watt Chinese LED's it's a rip-off.


+1
I think even when people read this blaster, they still insist on the cheaper stuff (not realizing they are actually spending more money).

I do have to say, blanketing all Chinese vendors into one category is not fair, there are a small percentage that do a good job but a huge percentage that dont.

So moral of the story. A 10w emitter on ebay is similar to a 3W CREE Star in output. A 3W XML run at 3A (which is 9w) is similar to two 10w ebay emitters. This of course is just one aspect.

The main issue for the 50-100watt versions people are missing is, one chip on that board goes, you loose everything basically. And not only that, cooling a 50w LED or even 100w is insane. You cant just slap a big heatsink on it. The thermal junction point between the heatsink and LED has to be perfect and you need the massive heatsink. I have 20w leds in front of me, cooling them is not the simplest thing. How long they last is, questionable.

We have been testing several 10w versions of the True Violets, they look fine, they work fine, but they arent lasting because we have a hard time cooling them in such a small space.

#13
blasterman

blasterman

    Nano Reefer

  • Members
  • 1,815 posts
  • Joined 12 Aug 2009

I do have to say, blanketing all Chinese vendors into one category is not fair, there are a small percentage that do a good job but a huge percentage that dont.


Good point. The Chinese are simply selling to a market, and to be honest, I've seen 1,000,000x the BS marketing from American companies selling over-priced reef lights and making scientific claims that would make the professor from Gilligan's Islan cry shens.

A couple years ago I talked a Chinese company into making those big 10/20watt 445nm LEDs after frustrating responses from Cree and Bridgelux. They refuse to make blue LED's bigger than 3watts - period. So, let's hand it to the Chinese for being flexible. The 10watt LEDs I mentioned that use multiple colors might seem like a gimmick, but if you were to get the right mix of colors that would be a decent package for the money simply for convenience sake.

For DIY we need to pay attention to the basic math though. The big 50-100watt Chinese arrays are cheap, but they simply don't keep up with Bridgelux in price / performance / color quality.

#14
Whys

Whys

    Between the Lines

  • Members
  • 1,199 posts
  • Joined 17 Feb 2011

A couple years ago I talked a Chinese company into making those big 10/20watt 445nm LEDs after frustrating responses from Cree and Bridgelux. They refuse to make blue LED's bigger than 3watts - period. So, let's hand it to the Chinese for being flexible.


That's one heck of a point source of blue light. I wonder if they're worried about potential eye damage. No, I don't imagine the Chinese would care.

Reef Tinkers -- premier Sexy shrimp breeding tutorial, mentoring, and more.  ;) 


#15
gamezawy

gamezawy

    Nano Reefer

  • Members
  • 24 posts
  • Joined 12 Apr 2012
thank you all guys

i was almost going to order this kind of 10 watt leds but you saved me well that doesn't mean they are that bad but i mean they wouldn't give me what i really wanted from them well looks like i will go Cree XML and blues

so this is the last thing i would like to take your opinion in

to light my 120 gallon tank which is 60*24*20 as basic light i will consider later the other leds like the true violet or the red

so i will be needing 10 cree XML runs at 3 MA which will give me about 100 watts

and a 30 CREE XT-E royal blue 450-455nm runs at 1.5 MA which will give me about 150 watts
totaling of 250 watt

note : i know its not about the watt i know its about bar and lumens

what lens better to use 80 or 60 degree

and is it better to mix royal blue and normal blue as 1:1 so 15 royal blue and 15 normal blue ?

so is that good as a start for a healthy growing for the corals and good looking for the eye ?

i am so sorry for my too much qustions and thank you in advance

#16
Veng

Veng

    Disaster Inc.

  • Premium Members
  • 5,846 posts
  • Joined 06 Jan 2012

That's one heck of a point source of blue light. I wonder if they're worried about potential eye damage. No, I don't imagine the Chinese would care.

Seeing how we are trying to replicate the sun, I never advise looking directly at anything that's "reef capable". B)

Edited by Veng, 13 April 2012 - 11:42 AM.


#17
gamezawy

gamezawy

    Nano Reefer

  • Members
  • 24 posts
  • Joined 12 Apr 2012
so any suggestion ?