Out of Curiosity: Ammonia vs. Corals?

[iball1804]

If there was ammonia in a tank with corals, would the corals expand and look like normal, or close up and wither away?

 

Probably a stupid question but hey, I just thought of it! Thanks

[ferissp]

They would look unhealthy.

[iball1804]

As in, withering away?

 

Generally speaking, corals that are wide open and are looking healthy AREN'T in a tank with ammonia. Am I correct?

[xxbrianxx]

all depends on how long they're exposed to the ammonia. And of course what type of coral it is. SPS would probably retract polyps almost immediately and that would be a sure sign of something wrong. But then again corals are hardier than we give them credit for. I had an ammonia spike a while ago a lot of my sps actually survived and made a good comeback.

 

and yea you're correct if you have corals that are wide open and look healthy you shouldn't have anything to be worry about. Unless this is a mixed reef. In which case, you could have happy lps/softies and unhealthy sps due to high nutrients.

[iball1804]

Pretend zoas. I've heard they're pretty sensitive to this kind of stuff (more so than other softies).

 

Say you had a tank full of softies; shrooms, ricordeas, xenia, zoas, etc. If the zoanthids were open-polyped and nice and bright, is there anything to worry about?

[xxbrianxx]

really? Not in my experience. My zoas and palys have always been pretty hardy. Even when I had that tank crash, the zoas still stayed open. They're pretty resistant to heat swings as well IME. Umm well I suppose in terms of nutrients it'd be pretty hard to overdo it in a softie tank. I can't say for sure which is more resistant to ammonia but all of those are pretty darn hard to kill. Why don't you just tell us your exact situation?

[iball1804]

It's not mine but a buddies.

 

He had a fully cycled tank (or so we think). It cycled in less than a week via ocean sand and cured live rock, and the tank is around 2 gallons.

 

He just added corals today, one xenia, two ricordeas, and one zoanthid (I think whammin watermelon).

 

Just to check, they have been in the tank for around 3-4 hours, and we just want to make sure everything is alright (xenia is closed, is this normal acclimation? ricordeas and fully open, as are the zoas).

 

Any signs of chemical trouble?

[xxbrianxx]

xenia can be pretty sensitive to transport so I wouldn't be too worried about that. Just give it a bit of time and see what happens. On another note, I would definitely run some carbon in a softy tank as a lot of allelopathy can go on there.

[iball1804]

Cool. I will wait and post an update.

 

Thanks for the help!

[Euphyllia]

LOL I love this "It's about a friend... " stuff.

 

Your friend ;) should keep up with water changes. I do 20% weekly or more often on my 29g.

[xxbrianxx]

No problem. And try not to freak out too much when things don't open. I remember when I got my first coral (xenia). I checked on it every 5 minutes and when it finally opened I just stared and was fascinated

[iball1804]

Euphyllia - you got me! tryin' to hide my newbie. Hey it's natural. You rat.

 

xxBrianxx - Thanks for the help. Yeah I keep staring at it!

 

PS - I also got some mushroom frags, attached to a rock with green bubble algae. Should I put the rock in my tank?

[iball1804]

Bump. Is my friends tank ok? Coral=chemical wise?

[castiel]

What do your water tests say?

[Hinch5]

Your friend ? should get a bigger tank. 2 gallons for a beginner is too much work. Keep doing research.

[nancymatthews]

Bubble algae spores are inside the bubble. If it busts inside your tank, those spores can attach to other spots in your tank, then BOOM! You've got a lovely pico tank with beautiful bubble algae. Clean that rock before you put it in your tank.

[blasterman]

Necro thread alert.

 

Also, ammonia levels strong enough to hurt fish won't bother corals because corals don't breath O2.

 

I've seeded many a frag tank with ammonya, and corals don't care. Softies will actually grow faster with ammonia present because it's fertilizer.

 

Some of the toxins given off by shallow water palys can kill SPS and LPS at concentrations far lower than ammonia levels when tanks cycle.

[Clown79]

I had to remove a brain from my established tank due to peppermint shrimp tearing it apart and I put it in a cycling tank. Not only did it live, it's happy and growing.

 

Sounds like the corals are acclimating. Xenia can take a few days to open up after adding them, same with zoa's and leathers.

 

I find that alot of lps don't take as long to acclimate as softies.

[blasterman]

Yep.

 

Recently I had a sole Damsel jump out of one of my tanks - a shallow Mr Aqua. He was only there for to keep the bio filter going.

 

Screw it. In not covering the tank. So, I add 10 drops of ammonia per day to keep the bio filter intact. None of the SPS in the tank care.

[brandon429]

its handy bio information to know that if you withheld the ammonia, the bac would stay just as functional. I agree its dilution and rapid uptake offsets the harm a measured sustained reading would cause, but its also not required. once established, bacteria don't go back to sterile in submerged systems when the keeper withholds fish, food or drops. contaminants and feed are already there and stored plenty, and get in daily just the same

 

nature is feeding these systems such that if we stop, its ok, the filtration proceeds. the reason this is impactful is because many times people will load organics into their tank, on top of already sinked up organics, in an effort to prevent bacteria starvation which wont occur but the algae sure will, all that N is good food.

 

conversely, thinking the bacteria are controlled by the aquarist and menial activities will also prevent many tank owners from doing the deep cleaning required to stop invasions, thinking they'll kill off bac in the process such that their tank would be harmed. its simply nice to know we don't have to feed established filter bac, they already get food and have practiced a very long time as a clade

 

there is also no harm with spot dosing ammonia, the bac want it badly. its prob the most in demand compound we produce, the tanks want it -fast- as as long as no sustained .5 accurate levels are in the tank all will be fine. fish are contributing concentrated raw ammonia commonly.

 

part of the auto-feed mechanism in place if we didn't dose would be non filtration bacteria that bloom and die, always, constantly, along with simple slicks and organic stores already present in the tank before the fallow run. there are several others beyond those too. if a particular holding tank was very sparse on surface area...not using live rocks or big sponges, then some spot feeding might be indicated but typically we are all overdoing our needed surface area, such that they catch and hold waste quite well as a cycle within the tank

[blasterman]

once established, bacteria don't go back to sterile in submerged systems

 

 

Not true. The main bacteria the form our biological filters do not exist in spore form (my mistake in the past on being fed that disinformation). So, their ability to go dormant is greatly affected if they aren't fed regularly.

 

I've actually tested this, and found that if I didn't sustain ammonia dosing for a couple weeks my frag tanks became unstable and suddenly there were bacteria (cloudy water blooms), diatoms and other 'new tank syndrome' events. This is why live rock purchased from reef stores from storage tanks with no bio load often goes through a harsh cycle.

 

Also, without the presences of ammonia and nitrite reducing bacteria the really important nitrate reducers take a hit, and those are the ones that take sooooo long to establish. Yes, if you have a few years worth of organic crud built up bacteria can feats on other sources, but in a low nutrient tank in the first place there isn't much slack room.