JoelRHale Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Short and sweet, I have 4 main clumps of zoas that have been nothing but happy with their environment. Fast forward to last night when I added some paly, ric, and mushrooms to the tank and now every single zoa, without exception, is closed very tight. I noticed 1 asternia star but not on a polyp. What's the deal? The palys were only close to one zoa colony so stinging is ruled out. All other coral is open and happy so water params are out. Any ideas? And just noticed that my previous mushroom colony is shriveled up as well. Link to comment
jeremai Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 it's called allelopathy. if you're not running carbon, now's the time to start. Link to comment
JoelRHale Posted August 10, 2011 Author Share Posted August 10, 2011 Thank you for your responses. I will buy a large tub of carbon after work and start running it tomorrow. I noticed a bit of slime on the paly when I took them out but I assumed it was stress induced and rinsed it off in freshly mixed SW then placed it. It must be producing more. How does the carbon take care of it? And should I do a good sized pwc before adding the carbon? Link to comment
phi delt reefer Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Thank you for your responses. I will buy a large tub of carbon after work and start running it tomorrow. I noticed a bit of slime on the paly when I took them out but I assumed it was stress induced and rinsed it off in freshly mixed SW then placed it. It must be producing more. How does the carbon take care of it? And should I do a good sized pwc before adding the carbon? carbon absorbs toxins in the water column. Water changes always help - it will dilute the toxins in the water. make sure you rinse the carbon with 4-5 gallons of ro water first... lots of black dust other wise Link to comment
Builder Anthony Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Maybe the mushrooms or whatever else you added slimed up.I would suspet that as the cause and do a water change.Taking zoas and mushrooms out of the water causes slime up real quick. Link to comment
JoelRHale Posted August 10, 2011 Author Share Posted August 10, 2011 Alright, after work tomorrow I will change 5 gallons then run my largest media bag full of carbon. Thanks again for everyone's help, I really appreciate it! Link to comment
JoelRHale Posted August 10, 2011 Author Share Posted August 10, 2011 New to chemical media, is carbon all I need or would something like Chemi-Pure Elite or Purgien be better. I think the store I go to has all three, I just want to get what's best for my tank. I did some reading and it seemed like carbon was the right choice but if I ran carbon and Chemi-Pure together it would be best. Link to comment
nanotrevor Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 carbon is going to adsorb the chemical warfare and something like purigen/chemipure will suck up the trates/trites and i believe chemipure get phosphates too. a good combo would be carbon/chemipure. i actually run seagel/purigen, seagel being a combo of carbon and phosguard and ive had nothing but great luck Link to comment
Bill Nye Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 New to chemical media, is carbon all I need or would something like Chemi-Pure Elite or Purgien be better. I think the store I go to has all three, I just want to get what's best for my tank. I did some reading and it seemed like carbon was the right choice but if I ran carbon and Chemi-Pure together it would be best. Chemi-pure elite is pretty much carbon and GFO. I prefer a high quality carbon and purgien to CPE as its less expensive and I feel it does a better job. Link to comment
ermartin Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Dont overdue it on the carbon. more is not always better. Water changes are your best friend. If what you have is really a PALY and not a big ZOA that commonly get labled as PALY'S just one of those dieing can ruin your your whole tank. you can find many threads including my own where a paly gone bad killed a whole tank. Do you have any fish in the tank ? If they seem OK then i would think its just simple warfare that can be cleared up with your choice of carbon/gfo and water changes Paly toxin will stress/kill fish very quickly Link to comment
PinkDamsel Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 This is interesting, it might explain some troubles I've had w. some zoas. Is the idea that the new corals are sending out poisons that affect the zoas but not other corals in the tank? So not all corals are equally susceptible? Link to comment
JoelRHale Posted August 10, 2011 Author Share Posted August 10, 2011 Thank you, everyone, for your responses, I feel like this is going to be under control in no time. Thank you for setting me straight on chemical media, the last time I've used it has been more than 10 years! I ended up getting Black Diamond carbon as it was the lfs' only choice. I traded some of these palys for store credit and came away with a free jar of carbon and $34, not a bad day. When I got home I changed 5 gallons of water, cleaned all existing filter media (Chaeto, thin foam pad, and nitrate sponge), then prepared the carbon and added it. I read that it was 1/2 cup per 50 gallons so I used a little less than 1/4 cup for my tank. Now we wait. Ermartin, I'm almost sure they are paly. The guy I got them from seemed like he was very knowledgeable on what he had in the tank. Now they might not be paly but they look like all the ones I've seen. If you look at the last batch of pictures in my tank thread you'll see the rock I added. There are 3 fish in the tank, all acting normally. In fact, the six line looks even better now that he has more rock to explore. Pink Damsel, from my limited understanding, it's the fact that some paly/zoa excrete stuff other paly/zoa don't like so they close up and free up competition for nutrients in the water. My guess is that mushrooms do it too because my mushroom rock is shriveled too. Link to comment
JoelRHale Posted August 11, 2011 Author Share Posted August 11, 2011 Just to update, carbon and pwc seem to have worked, all zoa are open and haven't faded in color. Odor gone as well. Thanks again to everyone to helped me out. I will also update the other thread with this same info just to bring some closure to people maybe having this problem in the future. Link to comment
DK_Reef Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Dont overdue it on the carbon. more is not always better. Water changes are your best friend. If what you have is really a PALY and not a big ZOA that commonly get labled as PALY'S just one of those dieing can ruin your your whole tank. you can find many threads including my own where a paly gone bad killed a whole tank. Do you have any fish in the tank ? If they seem OK then i would think its just simple warfare that can be cleared up with your choice of carbon/gfo and water changes Paly toxin will stress/kill fish very quickly hello, I thought zoas had paly toxin too? I was moslty going to have these species Zoanthus sp. Zoanthus gigantus Protopalythoa sp. can these kill a tank? Link to comment
brandon429 Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 they will not kill a tank. I have them packed in a one gallon vase for half a decade, allelopathy does not occur in the ways we think it does. Link to comment
ermartin Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 hello, I thought zoas had paly toxin too? I was moslty going to have these species Zoanthus sp. Zoanthus gigantus Protopalythoa sp. can these kill a tank? So i have never had them just go toxic for no reason. twice i have cause the condition. one time i ripped some from a rock that they were overgrowing in an attempt to frag and had death tank within hours. and another time i accidentaly crushed a couple and same results. wasted an unreal amount of motipora corals as well as a few fish.... Still havent learned my lesson though i still have a few and yes they WILL KILL a tank.... So i have never had them just go toxic for no reason. twice i have cause the condition. one time i ripped some from a rock that they were overgrowing in an attempt to frag and had death tank within hours. and another time i accidentaly crushed a couple and same results. wasted an unreal amount of motipora corals as well as a few fish.... Still havent learned my lesson though i still have a few and yes they WILL KILL a tank.... also to be clear not every PALY will do this and as stated before not every PALY is actually a PALY. there is a good scientific article on it somewhere ill have to see if i can find it Link to comment
ermartin Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Not my data comes from a expert collector In Hawaii knowledge required by state law to get license... or so im told Palythoa: Very rare to see true palythoas in the hobby,Palythoas and Protopalythoas incorperate sand/substrate into their tissue. "In" their tissue, not a few specs here and there. It is actually embedded Protopalythoa: Most commonly known as "Button Polyps" or "Death" polyps. Hawaiian Death, Purple Death, Nuclear Greens, etc. Zoa - Zoanthus sp: most common polyps available in the hobby. Hundreds maybe thousands of different morphs are available Zoanthus gigantus: People Eaters the largest of the zoanthus family. Probably the best identified polyp in the trade. Green mouth and striations must be present in a Zoanthus gigantus (PE) polyp. Link to comment
brandon429 Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 somethin's wierd because my tank is 20x smaller and more concentrated that you guys and I frag each of these genera constantly...no death, and the slimeslurry goes all around the tank before I have time to water change it all back out Link to comment
ermartin Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 somethin's wierd because my tank is 20x smaller and more concentrated that you guys and I frag each of these genera constantly...no death, and the slimeslurry goes all around the tank before I have time to water change it all back out Must be your wizard magic ... I can only speak from the personal experience of myself and others who have encountered the same exact thing... the 2 Protopalythoa that cause my issue were Nuclear Green's in a 34g and some common brown buttons in a 25g. and there was no doubt about it. Ive had plenty in my tanks now that have never cause an issue but if and when i decide to trim or frag i will remove the rock to do so... also im talking about Protopalythoa not zoa of which i have never had an issue fraging underwater Link to comment
brandon429 Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 thats a tough variable to pinpoint...its possible certain traits such as hyperconcentration vs the concentrations seen in larger tanks does something to mute the outputs over time (don't know) so that when you cut them, less harmful characters are found in the exudate? someone got a need for a mstrs thesis lying around lets go ahead and pick up on that Link to comment
DK_Reef Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 thanks for the info so only Palythoa and Protopalythoa can do this? I am never going to try to frag one or try really hard not crush one Link to comment
brandon429 Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 we know at least dont let the juice hit ur eye!! Link to comment
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