LED Question?

[brian92]

I want to put together a small LED fixture I was wondering what I should use.

 

I am looking to mod LEDs into the hood of a Minibow 5 I was hoping on being able to use circuit board and standard LEDs.

 

I was checking out LEDs on Ebay and found these I was thinking of a 50/50 blend of blue and white with

a total of 200 leds

 

I have a feeling I might not be able to use them but on such a small tank perhaps it could work.

 

Any led experts out there?

 

I also need to figure out a power supply and resistors but that shouldn't be hard right?

 

Come with free resistors

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/100p-5mm-SUPERBRIGHT-B...1QQcmdZViewItem

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/100X-5mm-BRIGHTest-WHI...1QQcmdZViewItem

[coolwaters]

resistors dont help protect your LEDs. your thinking of regulators.

omg your willing to spend $70 on cheap LEDs?

 

heres the thread i made about high power LEDs.

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=138608

 

if you want i can help you look for stuff you need on dealextreme.

tell me what your planning on raising. soft coral?

so i can determine how many LEDs you would need.

[brian92]

resistors dont help protect your LEDs. your thinking of regulators.

omg your willing to spend $70 on cheap LEDs?

 

heres the thread i made about high power LEDs.

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=138608

 

if you want i can help you look for stuff you need on dealextreme.

tell me what your planning on raising. soft coral?

so i can determine how many LEDs you would need.

 

Thanks for the thread its awesome I think I'll get those ones you listed there. I'll check out deal extreme too.

 

I'm mostly looking to do softies mainly zoanthids.

[coolwaters]

i forgot to ask wat kind of color temp your looking for too...

 

anyways. i guess 3 LEDs would be great.

i find this Cree LED to be the best they have. the color rating is about 7k but i have their 6k version and they look like 8k-ish. very white with a nice blue tint.

 

i recommend getting this Blue LED. i have over 5 and i love them.

 

for Cree LEDs remember not to take them off the board... i'll be almost impossible to solder..

 

this power supply will drive each LED at 3w each. making it 9w for your tank but its going to one hell of a 9w.

 

i know this is ugly but thats if your dont have a heatsink already.

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.5112

 

make sure you got heatsinks compound.

 

hope this doesnt discourage you from doing it with us =p

 

i estimated it would cost about $50 to run 3 high power LEDs. with heatsink compound and heatsink/fan

basically a retrofit.

 

gl

[brian92]

i forgot to ask wat kind of color temp your looking for too...

 

anyways. i guess 3 LEDs would be great.

i find this Cree LED to be the best they have. the color rating is about 7k but i have their 6k version and they look like 8k-ish. very white with a nice blue tint.

 

i recommend getting this Blue LED. i have over 5 and i love them.

 

for Cree LEDs remember not to take them off the board... i'll be almost impossible to solder..

 

this power supply will drive each LED at 3w each. making it 9w for your tank but its going to one hell of a 9w.

 

i know this is ugly but thats if your dont have a heatsink already.

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.5112

 

make sure you got heatsinks compound.

 

hope this doesnt discourage you from doing it with us =p

 

i estimated it would cost about $50 to run 3 high power LEDs. with heatsink compound and heatsink/fan

basically a retrofit.

 

gl

 

You have no idea how much that helps!!!!

 

I was so confused on what I needed and where to find it

 

So do you think those three high power LEDs are gonna be good for a zoa tank?

 

Also I should go with two whites and 1blue right?

[coolwaters]

2 white and 1 blue will give you a really nice bluish 12k look.

 

zoas dont need that much light. also in my experience LEDs dont follow the watts per gallon at all.

since its limited to 180 degrees cuz of how they are made. (most are around 120-90 degrees) it basically doubles the lumen output right there. also it generates a rich spectrum. MH gives off a lot of UV rays that are beyond 350nm and light beyond 800nm so they arent usable. and just cause damage and heating.

 

sorry i just noticed the power supply i posted here only gives out about 6w...you need 9...they used to have 12w ones but i guess they stopped making it.

 

edit- it seems that some one said 3 LEDs is fine if you take off the housing. if it gets really bad after a few hours getting a small fan blowing at it should fix that.

 

i guess if you want you can get two of those power supplies and wire the blue on there and the white on the other one. so you can have a moon light and a 7k dusk light. =)

 

btw you should read up on Evilc66 LED post.

 

people are having a hard time powering these LEDs and often blowing/burning them up but the constant current power supply really helps for the people that dont fully understand LEDs.

[brian92]

2 white and 1 blue will give you a really nice bluish 12k look.

 

zoas dont need that much light. also in my experience LEDs dont follow the watts per gallon at all.

since its limited to 180 degrees cuz of how they are made. (most are around 120-90 degrees) it basically doubles the lumen output right there. also it generates a rich spectrum. MH gives off a lot of UV rays that are beyond 350nm and light beyond 800nm so they arent usable. and just cause damage and heating.

 

sorry i just noticed the power supply i posted here only gives out about 6w...you need 9...they used to have 12w ones but i guess they stopped making it.

 

i guess if you want you can get two of those power supplies and wire the blue on there and the white on the other one. so you can have a moon light and a 7k dusk light. =)

 

btw you should read up on Evilc66 LED post.

 

Excellent, this will make an awesome project for the engineering class I'm taking in HS we have to design and build electronic devices.

 

I'll definetly getting two of those power supplies it would be awesome to have a blue one on 24/7.

 

But one 3w LED wired directly to the 6 watt base would be fine right?

[coolwaters]

Excellent, this will make an awesome project for the engineering class I'm taking in HS we have to design and build electronic devices.

 

I'll definetly getting two of those power supplies it would be awesome to have a blue one on 24/7.

 

But one 3w LED wired directly to the 6 watt base would be fine right?

 

yeah it turns out 1-3 LEDs at 700mA is fine. (700mA = 3w for high power LEDs)

just need to keep the power supply cool. i recommend having the case open and maybe a fan blowing at it if it gets really bad.

[evilc66]

One recomendation. Plan for adding more LEDs that you are going to put in initially. It will make life a lot easier down the road when you decide to kick the power up a little more, and you will.

 

One thing that Coolwaters didn't mention was spacing for the LEDs. The Cree's have a relatively tight 90 degree spread to them, so they don't cover as much area as some other LEDs. You will want to spread them a little to get good coverage over the entire tank, but don't go too far apart as you will start to get a very clear spotlight effect from the different colors. Using a diffusion material will help soften the blend between the LEDs.

[brian92]

One recomendation. Plan for adding more LEDs that you are going to put in initially. It will make life a lot easier down the road when you decide to kick the power up a little more, and you will.

 

One thing that Coolwaters didn't mention was spacing for the LEDs. The Cree's have a relatively tight 90 degree spread to them, so they don't cover as much area as some other LEDs. You will want to spread them a little to get good coverage over the entire tank, but don't go too far apart as you will start to get a very clear spotlight effect from the different colors. Using a diffusion material will help soften the blend between the LEDs.

 

Thanks a bunch for the input

 

Now that you say that I was thinking that using both power sources I could do two or three leds on each power source? totaling 4-6 leds on the whole thing. Would I need a larger heat sink for that many?

 

Could I put the power sources outside of the hood to keep them cooler?

[evilc66]

That LED driver will only be able to handle 2 LEDs, and wouldn't be my first choice. This one gives you a little room to expand and is still direct 110v AC. It will support up to 5 LEDs (the description on the page is wrong, follow the data sheet). It's a little bit more, but worth the money. Only down side is that it's not dimmable.

 

Another option is to use a Buckpuck. This one is dimmable and can support up to 9 LEDs (depending on the source power supply voltage). You will need a DC power supply (many can be found here) that has sufficient voltage to support the number of LEDs you are driving. Basically, you take the forward voltage (usually 3.4v-4.1v) and multiply that by the number of LEDs you want, then add 2v for the overhead voltage required by the Buckpuck.

 

I personally would try and keep the drivers and power supplies out of the hood. Saltwater is a nasty environment. Keeps the heat out of there too.

[brian92]

That LED driver will only be able to handle 2 LEDs, and wouldn't be my first choice. This one gives you a little room to expand and is still direct 110v AC. It will support up to 5 LEDs (the description on the page is wrong, follow the data sheet). It's a little bit more, but worth the money. Only down side is that it's not dimmable.

 

Excellent I have no problem with spending a bit especially since I would need two of the other ones. I think I might go with the luxeonstar one not sure if I should go with the buck puck.

 

I personally would try and keep the drivers and power supplies out of the hood. Saltwater is a nasty environment. Keeps the heat out of there too.

 

So am I right on this "I should wire up the driver to a cord to plug it directly into an outlet. Then I connect the LEDs to the driver by wiring those up in an array on the heatsink?" Sound good?

 

I won't a problem soldering and wiring my dad is an electrician so that might help with wiring.

 

Also is there any way to compare the watts of LED to another light source?

 

would 3 whites and 2 blues provide alot of light?

 

Evil and Coolwaters I really appreciate all your help thanks!

[Zombo]

You want to go from 110AC to a regulated power supply, then from the power suppy to the buck pucks. the pucks wire up to the LEDs.

 

110VAC ----> >---DC Power Supply--->>---Buck Puck(s)--->>---LEDs

 

Hope this helps.

[coolwaters]

those power supplies that evil posted are pretty expensive and shipping doesnt seem to be added. so your probably looking at $45 shipped and tax....

i got a really small 20w version for $21 shipped off ebay but it seems they raised the price to the $30-40. so no point in recommended any of those.

 

but then again the Xitanium is extremely reliable.

let me see if i can find a cheaper and more powerful one.

 

edit-

found it.

http://www.componentsuperstore.com/Store/P...SFORMERS5670161

that place is where i got my cheap luxeon LEDs. luxeon suxs...dont get it....and rebel is way too small for a average person to handle.

 

btw you have to make a account to buy stuff. fairly easy to make one

[evilc66]

Just to clarify, the link that Coolwaters posted is for the exact same one that I did, just for a better price.

 

As far as Luxeon LEDs, they don't "suck" as such. It's just hard to get the better bins right now. Cree's are good and happen to be more convinient right now.

 

The Xitanium driver makes things the easiest with the least number of support components. The Buckpucks do add a nice feature of being able to adjust the output, but add a little complexity by adding an external power supply.

[brian92]

Awesome, So far I decided on the xitanium driver, 3 cree white LEDs, 2 of the blues, the heatsink you recommended and the thermal compound to attach the leds to the heatsink.

 

How should I arrange the LEDs on the heatsink?

 

A Circular or Linear or linear arrangaement?

 

Also is there anyway to compare the wattage of LEDs to more watts of more conventional light sources?

[Zombo]

[white][blue][white][blue][white]

[brian92]

[white][blue][white][blue][white]

 

 

Thanks!

[evilc66]

With the options in lighting today, you can't compare by watts. A more useful measurement is PAR (Photosyntheticly Active Radiation). Basically that means the wavelengths of light that are useful for photosynthesis. These numbers are not readily given out by manufacturers because various things change the performance of the light source. There are a number of people that have done independant test on T5 and MH bulbs, but the numbers can't be pinned down so easily with LEDs because of the changing mix of white and blue from fixture to fixture. What I can tell you is that LEDs generate on average more PAR per watt than most other light sources. This is one reason that you don't need as many LEDs (wattage wise) to light a tank.

[brian92]

Oh ok I get it.

 

Awesome I can't wait to get started on this.

 

 

You know of any tank threads that use leds?

 

I've checked out your tank and I'm looking for others

[evilc66]

There have been a few here. Myself, Coolwaters, and Gomer have all dabbled in it, and I'd search for the threads for them. I have been running mine for 7+ months and have had pretty good success. It's not a cheap endevor to get into though.

[coolwaters]

seems like evilc66 was right...again. =(

 

i had to raise my LED array a little higher to get a good spread. at about 3" it only covered half the tank and everything around it seems pretty dim.

 

i messed up my solder again. so i went out and got some flux to fix it will post pics 2morrow. i also got my tank up and running. just need to cycle again.

[Zombo]

seems like evilc66 was right...again. =(

evilc66 is ALWAYS RIGHT!

[Splumph]

I think I might end up running 7 LEDs on my MB7 when I start putting it together (4 white, 3 blue) I'd like to run it with two circuits so I can run two timers, figure it cant be much harder to accomplish. My question was this, would this power supply run the LEDs at the right current for the best output:

 

Advance Transformer LEDINTA0024V41FO

XITANIUM 100W 24V

V IN 120/277VAC Freq 50/60

I IN 1.0/.4 AMAX

PF 0.9

Vout 24.0 VDC Iout.1ADC

 

From what I understand this should be able to run 8 of the CREEs. I also found one of these in the back, but I think it may be a regulator of some sort.

 

Lightech LED-25 24V

INPUT/PRI 85-277v

0.3A (85V)-0.1A(277V)

OUTPUT 24V DC 1A

 

I was thinking of using these ( http://www.sureneeds.com/zmnb47j.html )as heatsinks, they are designed as passive coolers, but i figure I can boost them with a fan or two if needed. Just mount 1 LED on each heat sink.

 

I'm wondering if I'm on the right path with how I'm thinking. Any pointers would be appreciated. I had intended for this to go over a softie, zoa tank, but I figure accomodating for additional LEDs in the future just seems like a good idea.

[snatchbak]

Im working on a LED fixture now. I took apart a crown amplifier and found the perfect size heatsink. Its about 15 inches long and 3 inches wide. I'm planning on using a buck puck with 4 royal blue LEDs and 5 white LEDs... all 3 Watt. [W] [RB] [W] [RB] [W] [RB] [W] [RB] [W]