Gigaah Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 This pico will be will be 10x6x6LW. the "fuge" area will be 2x6x10 and instead of a fuge it will be an algae scrubber. I've had a ton of success with these on my larger tanks and using one here allows for really nice form factor. My PLAN is to have the whole unit sealed. A lip on the top with a seal (probably silicone) If can pull it off with out problems. The water level will touching the lid of the tank so you can see straight down into the tank from the top. ..that would be pretty cool imo. also to minimize any evaporation I did not put it in the drawing but I'm currently planning on having a small round hole in the top of the lid that closes up for feeding. (shortened post) pic1: Heat sink for scrubber lights(courtesy of a broken xbox 360 pic2: cutting of acrylic pic3: tank design pic4: tank design pic 5: LEd layout pic6: Fan/grill(from old computer) pic 7: the power supply(has a 12v and a 5v out ..the fan on 5volts is completely silent pic8:LED drivers(will drive 1-3 LED's) pic9: fully assembled scrubber lights with heatsink and fan pic10: wiring of lights pic 11: aqueon 30 200gph pump. Link to comment
brandon429 Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 dang your serious about that build nice job can't wait to see how it turns out. nice prep Link to comment
Gigaah Posted July 3, 2011 Author Share Posted July 3, 2011 I got the display acrylic cut and assembled. I still have to cut and assemble the back scrubber area. and the lip on the display. Lots of little pieces for the overflow and return pump housing. Link to comment
Gigaah Posted July 4, 2011 Author Share Posted July 4, 2011 Some pictures of the DIYing of the pump and return outlet. I LOVE this aqueon pump. It just clips right on. The design of this HOB filter makes using the pump from it REALLY slick and easy. Its a quiet flow 30(200gph). The way I have it set up it will have even less head height than the stock configuration in the hob filter. Link to comment
Gigaah Posted July 4, 2011 Author Share Posted July 4, 2011 As always. Things don't go quite as planned. As I'm assembling the scrubber area. I realize...that once its all done I won't be able to remove the pump or heater for replacement or servicing due to the confined space. Since the scrubber area will only contain about 1.5" of standing water. My solution will be to cut a 4x4 hole in the back wall of the scrubber area. The water level will be below the cut out 99% of the time.This hole(on the outside) will be lined with thin sheet metal then covered in silicone as a gasket. The hatch, which will have the scrubber lights on it, will have strong magnets in it that will firmly seal against the silicone coated sheet metal gasket sealing it up. On the occasions where the system is shut off and the water level rises it should keep the water from leaking out pretty well. Its the same method I'm using for the top..so it better work! lol This project has already been a trial. cutting a gazillion pieces of acrylic big and small accurately enough with a plastic knife has been a learning experience..and frustrating. It took me awhile to even find a heater that I could get in there. The tetra 2-10g submersible preset heater fits the size. It will have lots of flow over it..so I'm hoping It works right its says 78 +/- 2 degrees F. I'm hoping I get 78+ At times I think I'm trying to do too much with too little. I've almost scrapped the project half a dozen times. Link to comment
garrettparson Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 This will be awesome. But on a sealed tank without some sort of gap it might be harder to contain air in there for over a day. You could use the idea that you drill a small hole and put an airstone in it and put it on a timer to go on and off every so often through out the day to get in that extra bit of air. Also In my sealed tank I have a cork whole in the front that i dose and feed through. You might also want to put one in the fuge area so you can easily pull out over growth with tongs. Link to comment
Gigaah Posted July 4, 2011 Author Share Posted July 4, 2011 This will be awesome. But on a sealed tank without some sort of gap it might be harder to contain air in there for over a day. You could use the idea that you drill a small hole and put an airstone in it and put it on a timer to go on and off every so often through out the day to get in that extra bit of air. Also In my sealed tank I have a cork whole in the front that i dose and feed through. You might also want to put one in the fuge area so you can easily pull out over growth with tongs. That's why an algae scrubber is perfectly suited to the project. Algae, like all plant matter, consume Co2 and release oxygen. scrubbers effectively super oxygenate the water via photosynthesis. There for an oxygen exchange between the water and atmosphere is not required. Other than adding food and calc/alk the tank is a self contained bio system. (edit)..yes..I do plan on putting a small feeder hole in the top for every day access. If I need to do larger operastions. The top will be removeable still. it will have a silicone seal and will be latched with stong magnets to prevent leaking. Link to comment
garrettparson Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Ahh hm okay, I use chaetomorphia for oxygen exchange. I worry though if its enough. I do notice with mine if I dont open my cork hole for a few minutes after a few days my polyp extension on my corals are little until I do so. What sort of cleaning you will be doing? Small water changes, or 100 percent water change? What are you planning on hosting in this pico? Link to comment
Gigaah Posted July 4, 2011 Author Share Posted July 4, 2011 Ahh hm okay, I use chaetomorphia for oxygen exchange. I worry though if its enough. I do notice with mine if I dont open my cork hole for a few minutes after a few days my polyp extension on my corals are little until I do so. What sort of cleaning you will be doing? Small water changes, or 100 percent water change? What are you planning on hosting in this pico? I've had experience with the matter. my friend and I sealed his 30g with a scrubber with no issues at all. It was an experiment to see if the information provided on the matter was fact or not. Turns out it is fact and the algae on a scrubber vastly out performs chaeteomorphia and requires less space. Most of the filtering done in the ocean is done by algae..makes sense to me why it works as well as it does. I also will have 7w of LED 1" from the algae screen providing the best photosynthetic environment possible. The overall effectiveness of the scrubber on my 55 and 33 indicates there is a good possibility of not having to do any water changing on a pico. Between me and my friend we've gone over a year on 30+ gallon tanks with no changes just dose calc/alk. I know, I know..don't roll your eyes.lol. But I know its possible on a larger tanks. This scrubber is also several times larger than is required by the guidelines. Ultimately I'm hoping for no water changes. But my water parameters will tell me what sort of maintenance I need. Like I said I'm aiming for a self contained bio-system here. As far as inhabitants go. I'd like: Either a False clown or a fire fish. If my parameters give me the green light I'd also like a two spot goby for sand sifting. I'll have about 10w of LED on the tank. I don't have any hard plans on coral but I'll probably start with some zoa's and star polyps then figure out if I want to get any acro or other sps. I'm really here trying to push the boundaries of the pico. I did this with my 55g with a scrubber with a very high bio load and doing what everyone told me I couldn't do. I had 2 mated pair of mandarins(4 fish) and a scooter blenny with 3 other fish in the 55 gallon. The scrubber is ALSO a verifiable copepod factory. They thrive in the algae screen. Link to comment
garrettparson Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 You my friend are great. Im not trying to prove wrong or anything I hope I didnt seem that way. Ha I think pushing the boundaries is a very great thing. It what teaches/pushes the hoby into a more advance thing. One thing I have no clue why but I really want to successfully keep a clam long term (until it out grows) in a like one gallon or so. So this would be experiemental with dosing I would think. Also could you explain your scrubber thing? I dont really understand.. I want to learn your ways aswell so I can make my sealed pico better. Link to comment
Gigaah Posted July 5, 2011 Author Share Posted July 5, 2011 Yeah. you didn't come across as trying to prove anything wrong no worries. Most people have only heard a little bit about scrubbers if at all and don't have any hands on experience with a properly built unit. algaescrubber dot net is a forum that contains all the information to build a successful scrubber and a whole gang of people that can help if you have questions. A modern scrubber is basicly a slot. that water comes out of. It runs down a plastic mesh screen(that has been roughed up). High intensity lights on (preferably each side..but one side in my case). This provides an ideal environment for algae to grow. The algae consumes ammonia, nitrates, phosphates etc as it grows using the lights and those compounds for photosynthesis. So already you have a device that eats up ammonia, nitrates and phosphates. and adds oxygen to the water via photosynthesis. But it gets even better. Since you are providing the algae with such a perfect environment in ONE area..it brings the levels of those compounds down so low that algae in the display cannot suvive well since it doesn't have the bennefit of the extra intense lights(which are of a different spectrum than your display lights).warmwhite/red are idea for the algae. So no you have something that consumes the bad crap we don't want in our tank, adds oxygen, and if done well gives you an algae free display tank...but there is more yet(really you say? yeah..thats what I thought too). The algae in the scrubber provides a fantastic bed for copepods to grow. I have pictures of good isopods on my screen from one of my scrubbers somewhere. So you'll have a good abundance of those too. As My 55g could attest with 4 mandarins and a scooter blenny all happy and fat. They have also allowed me to feed my tanks more. I run no mechanical filtration. The water is clear..but there is some "marine snow" aka micro food particles in the water. THIS IS GOOD in my opinion. That stuff is what coral and small fish eat. This is a simulated marine environment the ocean has tiny stuff suspended in it all over. It reduces the need to add coral supplements to the tank. The fish poop more when you feed more and fish poop still contains nutrients and coral eat that too. But if I feed heavily I feel the need to have a sifter or a star on the sand bed keeping things turned over and cleaned out. If you looking to construct one. Visit the algaescrubber net site. I'm hanging out there and myself and others can help you out. I totally realize this all sounds nearly unbelievable to most. I thought the same thing awhile back. One more progress picture. Slow and steady. You can see I modified the screen slot idea from the original drawing it will be easier to get the proper width of the slot this way. Link to comment
garrettparson Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Smart stuff here. So you put more intense lighting/red lighting in the back where the scrubber is then the display tank? This is very interesting. I wish I could build one in my fuge in my pico but considering its only 2x4 inches big I barely can fit a heater and chaeto in it. lol It looks nice I am ready to see this go through. It will be really impressive if you keep such a fish like a fire goby or a clown in this AIO system. Link to comment
Gigaah Posted July 5, 2011 Author Share Posted July 5, 2011 Smart stuff here. So you put more intense lighting/red lighting in the back where the scrubber is then the display tank? This is very interesting. I wish I could build one in my fuge in my pico but considering its only 2x4 inches big I barely can fit a heater and chaeto in it. lol It looks nice I am ready to see this go through. It will be really impressive if you keep such a fish like a fire goby or a clown in this AIO system. Well The ideal light for algae is around 3000k. Tank lighting your looking at 10k+ so by providing intense light of the right temperature it promotes the algae to grow where you want it to as opposed to in the display. I'm working through the build. It helps to have someone looking forward to seeing it as well...when I get stuck or discouraged it pushes me forward.Thanks! Link to comment
garrettparson Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Yeah man keep it up! Im glad you could find help in my thread! I think in a way we can team up on each others aquarium and our own success and failures we come across in near future we can both look at so we dont make the same mistakes and then improve each others sealed pico. Link to comment
Gigaah Posted July 5, 2011 Author Share Posted July 5, 2011 Display leak test: Check! Blacked out equipment area: Check! Ensure equipment fit: Check! (but Juuuust barely does that heater fit...and the pump for that matter..its REALLY tight in there. 2"x10" isn't much room to work with. Picture of the equipment area with heater,pump, and algae screen mocked up in it. Still a lot of work to do. I have to put the back on make sure that area doesn't leak. Then the part where I have to get the top lip glued in place(lots of little tiny pieces to cut and glue) in preperation for the sealing/removable top. This is the part that makes me the most nervous. Every thing will have to be nearly perfect for it to work as I planned. Not to mention the access port in the back wall of the equipment area that I have to add. That has to seal up water tight too. I'm not AS concerned about that because it won't usually be holding back water unless I stop the pump. Link to comment
karisma Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 This is a really interesting read, I'll be following your build thread and hopefully it has some good results for you! I'd sure like to see a commercial company make pico/nano tanks with this sort of thing pre installed or as an option instead of a fuge. Link to comment
Gigaah Posted July 7, 2011 Author Share Posted July 7, 2011 12hr work day. However, I DID managed to get the back blacked out. And put on. So it looks like a fish tank. You can see the service hatch I made. Obviously my Dremel tool was arguing with me when I was cutting. But its not an issue functionality wise. Tomorrow I will leak test the back area.(prays) it'll take some Chinese contortionist/ninja skills to get in there with silicone if it is not sealed properly. Link to comment
Gigaah Posted July 8, 2011 Author Share Posted July 8, 2011 Well today I did leak test the back. Its sealed. I even went so far as to fill it with water and turn on the pump, adjust the slot size. One issue did crop up that I'm a bit concerned about. Bubbles. I tried getting a few baffles in there but it didn't stop enough of the bubbes. I do have WAY too much flow causing a lot of turbulence in the water in the scrubber area. So I covered 3/4's of the outlet. Still too much. If I cover any more of the outlet the jet of water coming out of the return will be too strong. I will work on restricting the intake of the pump next. I need to iron these things out before I proceed any further. I did anticpate some bubbles. At which point I hoped setting the tank off level with the over flow as the highest point would return the air into the chamber in the back and keep them out of the display for the most part. At this point I'm not going to entertain alternative plans. I'm not going to give up yet. Link to comment
Builder Anthony Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Just dont drop it I broke 2 tanks right before i stocked it.One had a helmet fall on the side of it and the other i was tryen to make super clean by drying it after i washed it.I poressed to hard on the glass and broke it. Link to comment
Gigaah Posted July 8, 2011 Author Share Posted July 8, 2011 Just dont drop it I broke 2 tanks right before i stocked it.One had a helmet fall on the side of it and the other i was tryen to make super clean by drying it after i washed it.I poressed to hard on the glass and broke it. dang..I'll remember that! Good news! I restricted the intake. The flow is good. In fact in the picture where the top isn't on the water actually is bulging above the acrylic..but not spilling It would make a really cool rimless..but no need to consider that route any more. The COOLEST part. Is When I set the top on(with no seal..just to see what happened). There were almost no bubbles...AND even with no seal on the top it did NOT LEAK and the water touched the top and I had a perfect little rectangle of water. I didn't count on the surface tension of the water being that advantageous. I don't think I will use magnets on the top any more. All I will just lay down a small silicone seal. The best part? If bubbles to build up over time..all I have to do. Is take of the top..and rest the lid on the front of the tank and slowly lay it back down..bubbles gone! Man that is a big relief! Rarely do project go from looking like disaster..to looking better than you hoped in such a short period of time. you can see in the picture as well ..the water line above the tank rim..and then it lowering as it enters the overflow..pretty neat! Link to comment
Gigaah Posted July 9, 2011 Author Share Posted July 9, 2011 Functionally. Its done. I can work on polishing it and finishing the lights as it cycles. The rock in the tank wasn't exactly for sale. It was only partially cured according to the LFS. I liked it so much I took it any how. It did not smell. It could extend my cycling time..but we will see about that. ATS generally dramatically reduce cycle time. I still plan on putting a thin black border around it at the top and on the corners. The bored around the top will allow me to remove the top and not drip a little water over the sides so I decided it would look better if I just did the corners as well. I will probably wind up with either a thick 1/4" acrylic top or glass. I only finished one of the main tank lights so far. This picture was taken less than 1hr after adding sand/rock/water so its a little cloudy and there are some water streaks on the top:). Total system water volume. 0.9 Gallons Link to comment
anjay Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Looks good so far! How is your heatsink mounted? Link to comment
Gigaah Posted July 11, 2011 Author Share Posted July 11, 2011 Looks good so far! How is your heatsink mounted? Which heat sink? For the scrubber or the display? And do you mean how is it mounted to the tank?its just sitting on the top. Link to comment
.Newman. Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 what do you mean just sitting on top? the LEDs arent touching the lid are they? the heatsink is supported on the lid by something right Link to comment
Gigaah Posted July 11, 2011 Author Share Posted July 11, 2011 what do you mean just sitting on top? the LEDs arent touching the lid are they? the heatsink is supported on the lid by something right It currently IS setting on the lid very carefully for now. 5 LED in a group resting on the top. I will have a box around the heat sink that will support the LED's off the lid by just a hair. The LED's dont get hot at he lens, and The lid is currently acrylic. There is an 80mm fan on top of the heat sink. running on 5 volts ..cool and silent. Panaflo 80mm fans I put in a computer case years ago that were purchased because they were rated much quieter than the rest. I work with Poly-carbonate and acrylic enough to know it wont damage the LED lens. Tho as I said this is not a permanent situation. Link to comment
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