Fish dying, need some good advice

[mkeller]

New to hobby

Have a 12 gal aqupod used live sand, live water, have about 10lbs of live rock, ph 8.2, sal 1.025, nitrites 0, nitrates 20. Have red sponge with yellow zoos, waving hand xenia, purple gorgonian, bubble tip anenome, peppermint shrimp, emerald crab, 5 hermits, 5 astera snails, 5 nassarius snails. have had 2 clowns and 3 chromis die. Only had 1 clown and 1 chromis in there at once. I did notice I had ich here the last few days, so I started treating with ich attack 4 days ago and clown started looking much better and was doing fine last night when I went to bed, I got up this morn and there he was floating. Wondering if I am doing somthing wrong or if the ich just got him. By the way I do weekly water changes with live water, one gallon every sunday, I feed the anenome every 2 days krill, and fed the fish every 2-3 days brine shrimp. I feed the corals every day with photoplankton. I plan on waiting 30 days to put more fish back in, unless someone has a better idea of what is going wrong.

[kyle102565]

you crashed your tank, you overstocked way too fast is my guess. you overfeed also. empty the tank and start all over again. slow down next time. i hope your joking about the anemone.

[mkeller]

I didn't stock all at once, and was told to feed every 2-3 days

[icenine]

How long has you tank been running?

Your feeding of the fish and anemone is fine... you probably don't need to add that photoplankton more than once or twice a week. You do have a few hard to care for items that are probably not suited to your system.... that sponge is going to be a challange as will the BTA.

 

...and welcome to NR.com.

[formerly icyuodd/icyoud2]

your nitrite are high, and your medicating the tank. check your nitrites again. you might have toxic levels.

 

ick also go's through stages, just cause the white spots seems to be gone, doesnt mean your fish were free and clear.

[mkeller]

How long has you tank been running?

Your feeding of the fish and anemone is fine... you probably don't need to add that photoplankton more than once or twice a week. You do have a few hard to care for items that are probably not suited to your system.... that sponge is going to be a challange as will the BTA.

 

...and welcome to NR.com.

 

the tank has been up 6 months. I know that is a short time, but i did use live water and was told as long as my water was stable after a month or 2 I could start adding things. All of my corals are doing great. My snails and crabs are fine too. My peppermint shrimp is doing great, he is very fiesty. I know the bta and sponge are a challenge, but I am willing to put the time into it. I spend probably 3 hrs a day reading about everything and look at the tank for probably an hr or so just looking for any new things going on. I was told to feed the sponge photoplankton every day, if I don't need to then that is great less money spent. I would still like to know if there is a good chance that the ich is what killed my fish. I have only had 2 fish in there at once for a week or so, I only had one. I notice about 3 white spots on the fish and that is when I got the ich attack and started treating, after I noticed the next day he had several spots and the 3rd and 4th day the spots started going away and then the 5th day he was dead. Like I said earlier I am now going to wait at least 30 days before I put anymore fish in there. I would like to know if there is anything I need to do different in the next 30 days.

Thank you

[vyger]

Ich/Ick is always present in the water column , it only attacks fish when they are stessed for one reason or another . Your nitrates may high enuf to put them under stress or could be something else. You should really treat fish for ich in a quarentine tank...

[mkeller]

Ich/Ick is always present in the water column , it only attacks fish when they are stessed for one reason or another . Your nitrates may high enuf to put them under stress or could be something else. You should really treat fish for ich in a quarentine tank...

 

ok if ich is always in tank then what about waiting the 4-6 weeks to put fish in your tank after you know you have had ich. You are saying that nitrates of 20 is too high? I know you don't want any, but I was told 20 is acceptable and on my test strips say it is in the okay/safe range. to the earlier post that is nitrates that is 20 and not nitrites.... I appreciate everyones help just want as many responses so I can take them all into consideration and then come out with one happy answer.

[mkeller]

here is a pic of the tank

[distantfire]

It take's ich 6 week's to cycle. In your case I would wait at least 8 week's before trying another fish. Only because you treated the tank with a chemical. And most company's add copper to there chemical's for fighting ich. Lowering your sg to 1.021 will help any future fish you get. Fight the parasite's they have in there body and stop them from breaking out. Also using forumula one flake food every other day. I found has helped prevent ich from starting. Brine shrimp really have very little food value. Mysis shrimp are a lot better. Good luck

[Nosferatu]

Nitrates at 20 are tolerable, but are entering the upper threshold for what inverts (shrimp and corals in your pic) appreciate. Past that they tend not to like it so much.

As for the ich, all but 1 of the fish that I have had that got ich fought it and got over it. There is something else in there that is stressing them to make them susceptible and then not allowing them to fight it. The ich treatment was a bad idea considering you have corals and the anemone and stuff in there as the copper will often kill them. I'd suggest a big water change (like 40-50%). Then wait a while for fish, but maintain your maintenance schedule. That may help eliminate whatever your problem is. Also, try feeding your fish more often, but feeding them less. Clowns really prefer to eat once a day at least, if not a few times a day. Just significantly reduce how much you feed them if you change that schedule.

[mkeller]

Nitrates at 20 are tolerable, but are entering the upper threshold for what inverts (shrimp and corals in your pic) appreciate. Past that they tend not to like it so much.

As for the ich, all but 1 of the fish that I have had that got ich fought it and got over it. There is something else in there that is stressing them to make them susceptible and then not allowing them to fight it. The ich treatment was a bad idea considering you have corals and the anemone and stuff in there as the copper will often kill them. I'd suggest a big water change (like 40-50%). Then wait a while for fish, but maintain your maintenance schedule. That may help eliminate whatever your problem is. Also, try feeding your fish more often, but feeding them less. Clowns really prefer to eat once a day at least, if not a few times a day. Just significantly reduce how much you feed them if you change that schedule.

 

I used ich attack it is 100% organic and contains no copper and is reef safe. I can see where the fish started to look better but the effects of the ich were too much and that is why he passed on. I plan on waiting 4-6 weeks before I put anymore fish in there. Thank you for your response.

[TheNorthernLight]

It is not common for fish to die in short order from Ich. I've seen cases where the fish are literally polka-dot from ich, and they still fight it off. Ich is rarely the cause, but a bi-product of something else that is stressing them out. Once stressed, their immune system drops, which allows the Ich to take hold and will allow it to do it's damage. For such a small tank, you need to do at least 1G / week of water change (that works out to 25% change monthly. However, as Nosferatu mentioned, because you have used a desease treatment solution (which is never a good thing in a reef tank, no matter wether its organic or not), you should seriously consider doing a 50-60% water change. thats 6-7 Gallons total. While your at it , you may want to consider droping in a small bag of carbon filtration to remove any more "treatment". It will also remove a lot of other bad trace elements, it may reduce your intial water change benefits, but you can always use a trace element suppliment (in extremely small quantaties with a 12G) to re-supply the elements after you have removed the carbon. I suggest carbon for 2-4 days somewhere near the input for your powerhead, this will make it the most usefull for its purpose.

Then the other thing you may want to consider, would be to purchase your fish from a different supplier. Not all are equal, matter of fact the ones that usually cost 5-10% more, "usually" handle their fish better, or at least purchase from a better supplier.

 

As for food, with the population you have, mysis for the anemony (with the odd peice of crab or some other smallish chunk of food is ok), but a GREAT food for your crabs, shrimp, and most fish, is Cyclopeze. The stuff is VERY high in HUFA (highly unsaturated fatty acids) which is something your fish will love (makes them look better too). Generally will keep them happy as well. Also about 1 - 2 / month, I will feed them a piece of dried green nori (dried, flattened seeweed from Japan, its used to make sushi, ANY japanese, or asian food store will carry it usually in 50-100-250 g "bags"). Just tear off a small strip (about the side of a bandaid), and get a veggie clip, and put it in your tank.

they will nibble on it over a few ours as it softens, whatever they don't eat by the time your lights are off, remove the rest and flush it (reduces bio load).

 

besides that, I would strongly suggest that you get a good book called "Wilkerson - clownfishes" It obviously will teach you a lot about the clownfish, but will also give you A LOT of good info about most fish in general. Oh and to also wait the minumum 6 weeks (from the time of your water change) before re-introducing new fish. It will HUGELY decrease the chance of re-aquasition.

 

here's a link to what I'm talking about :

 

http://www.jlaquatics.com/phpstore/store_p..._ID=fd-acycf030

 

Hope this helps.

 

Cheers, Spyrule