Fragging Zoanthids

[Gili]

Hello,

 

Im looking for ideas on how to cut zoas that are part of a mat, esp large ones like the people eater ones as they are growing out of control in my tank!

 

I have managed to frag some of my zoas, by supergluing them directly to a rock and then supergluing the rock onto a piece of living rock - The piece that I fragged in this way was already loosened from the rock [was flapping a bit in the current from damage during shipping] so i just had to snip it with some scissors..

 

How do i:

 

Cut a zoa mat and unstick it from LR effectively?

Is it best to glue em afterwards or is the bridal veil technique worth trying instead?

 

ideas appreciated..

[Gili]

DOINK!

[Gili]

noone?

[brent-konieczny]

I would chisel off a tiny bit of rock that the zoos are on. Then you can glue that piece of rock anywhere because the zoos are already attached to it. Also, look at the garf page for more info http://www.garf.org/algae2/zoanthid.html

[yoshiod9]

xacto knife through the mat, dremel through the rock. that's how i've always fragged all of my zoanthids.

[Schwazreef]

I like to super glue. Both ruberband/pantyhose method and marine epoxy have not work well for me. PITA IMO. Go superglue.

[Tony]

here is a letter I got from an LFS owner in my area. All Zoa are toxic so take precautions when cutting them.

 

Hello everyone,

 

I would just like to share with you a amazing incident that I just experienced last night. I just set up a holding tank in my garage 8'long x 6'wide x1'high. Over the long weekend I had recieved some pathyoa zoanthids ( over 2,000 heads on ten large pieces of liverock ) from a client of mine. My employees put all of the liverock covered with them into my holding tank and left. I was out of town for three days, when I returned home I went to the garage to look at the specimens I was shocked to see how many polyps had grown covering all of the client's liverock. I noticed that my chiller had was on and the garage was extremely hot because I have not installed a vent in my garage yet.

 

Here's the cool part.... as I was cleaning my garage for about an hour, when my eyes started to burn and my nose started to run. In my mind, I thought that all of the dust that I was kicking up caused a allergy type response. Then, I had a funny taste in my mouth of metal. Then, I already had a idea that I had just become posioned with a neurotoxin. About 10mins later I had a headache, muscle achyness, my running nose became 10 times worse, my eyes were so tearful that I couldn't see. My wife and dog were in the garage with me for about 30minutes and suddenly she too had the same symptoms. An hour later my dog became sluggish and had a hard time breathing. I have to perform minor chest compressions to create a exhaul respiratory response to assist in her breathing.

 

So, what had happened was when the palythoa colonies was introduced in to my holding tank they released Neurotoxins in to the water. Then as the chiller raised the temperature in the garage. This caused steam from the tank and as I was cleaning my garage I was inhaling all of the neurotoxins come from the tank water. I am guessing that with the high concentrations of neurotoxin for all of the palythoa. That they became airborne and I was inhaling it for more than 1hour.

 

Wow! What a experience!!! I would never imagine neurotoxin posioning could be effective through air. This is why I am sharing this experience with my clients and friends. I am very lucky that none of us became seriously ill.

 

Neurotoxin Warning:

 

All species of Palythoa, and most related zoanthids including the Protopalythoa species, produce a chemical called PALYTOXIN in their mucus and gonads. Indigenous Pacific tribes used this neuromuscular agent to tip spears in order to paralyze prey animals and enemies. This is a potent toxin and can be deadly to humans. It is important to wear hand protection when touching these animals, especially if the handler has any breaks in his or her skin.

 

While many aquarists routinely handle corals, including zoanthids, without incident, it is still a very good idea to maintain a safe health protocol when working with these animals. Wearing gloves or making sure that no breaks in the skin are present is a start. (Aquarium Corals Selection, Husbandry, and Natural History, Eric H. Borneman pgs 182)

[shaggydoo541]

I had a buddy attempt to peel zoas off the rock with an exacto knife. He wanted to just take the polyps off and leave the rock. He got poisoned and was horribly sick for over a week (and developed a wicked rash).

 

Because of his mishap I always do one of two things. Break the rock the polyps are on thus providing as limited tissue damage/toxin release as possible. The other method I have used a little riskier and time consuming but I will superglue a snail shell/rock/whatever to the center of the zoa colony. Then after a month or so they will have grown onto this new snail shell (etc) and I just pry the shell out of the colony taking a few polyps with it.

[cu0ngsayz]

I had a buddy attempt to peel zoas off the rock with an exacto knife. He wanted to just take the polyps off and leave the rock. He got poisoned and was horribly sick for over a week (and developed a wicked rash).

 

Because of his mishap I always do one of two things. Break the rock the polyps are on thus providing as limited tissue damage/toxin release as possible. The other method I have used a little riskier and time consuming but I will superglue a snail shell/rock/whatever to the center of the zoa colony. Then after a month or so they will have grown onto this new snail shell (etc) and I just pry the shell out of the colony taking a few polyps with it.

 

 

wow thats not a bad idea.....

[espenlg]

There must be a better way of doing this? I'm sure many of you have seen Ann's superb pico tank, and to me it looks like zoas is scattered all over the LR, and are you telling me they grew like this?

 

To me it seems like they have been glued on one by one with superglue or something. I would really love to hear Ann's version of this :-)

 

With absolutely no knowledge about zoa fragging at all I tried pulling some zoas of a live rock just using my hands two days ago, three pieces in total (two single and one small group of 4). I glued them using superglue to a new piece of live rock and put it in my display tank, and now 48 hours later they have all opened up nicely.

 

Will they die off in a couple of days, or is this a possible solution to fragging zoas?

[shaggydoo541]

With absolutely no knowledge about zoa fragging at all I tried pulling some zoas of a live rock just using my hands two days ago, three pieces in total (two single and one small group of 4). I glued them using superglue to a new piece of live rock and put it in my display tank, and now 48 hours later they have all opened up nicely.

 

 

They most likely will do fine, but this is not a solution to fragging zoas. Moving a couple zoas around? Sure. But as far as large fragging solutions this can be dangerous (again story of friend trying this and poisoning himself).

[espenlg]

They most likely will do fine, but this is not a solution to fragging zoas. Moving a couple zoas around? Sure. But as far as large fragging solutions this can be dangerous (again story of friend trying this and poisoning himself).

I was just thinking about moving 10-15 heads from one rock I bought (which I don't want in my display tank), so with a couple of gloves, a plier and some superglue I guess I'm equipped to start then?

[proraptor2]

When fragging zaos or any coral for that matter make sure you wear gloves and eye protection. Most corals are toxic not to mention have tons of bacteria all over them...

 

Get a hobby razor blade and scrape through the rock underneath the zoas....Then use superglue gel to glue the new frag of zoas where you want...This is the easiest way no dremel required

[shaggydoo541]

Sure, but just to be safe make sure you have no cuts/scrapes/open areas on any part of you that enters your water. My friend had a scrape on his forearm that is what we think allowed the toxins to enter because the rash was really bad around this area. He was wearing gloves so gloves are not a failsafe.

[Helfrichs Chick]

All I can say is Dremel. Go grab yourself a good quality dremel, for a blade get a round diamond edge, cut through the rock BUT dont cut throught the Zoas yet. Get as close as you can to the Zoas but then cut the tissue with a exacto. I wouldnt cut through the polyps, just kinda at the base. You can frag just about anything this way, Porities, acros, even acans and chalice.

[sandcruiser]

good quality disposable gloves are cheap. you can get a box of 100 nitrile gloves for less than $20.

[paneubert]

Congrats on bringing back a thread from 4 years ago I agree with the gloves, but think that a freaking super sharp blade is also the key. Just like when cooking, a sharp blade will cut you less than a dull one. Less slipping, less ragged edges, faster work.

[BillyMays]

yea I did my first frag a few days ago, and It was very easy. I just cut through a section I wanted and used the xacto knife to peel that section off. I then super glued it to a frag tile......and BAM! I now have a 8 polyp frag of Fire and Ice zoas

[sjnovakovich]

All you guys that mention cutting the rock haven't considered those of us with rocks too big to remove from the tank.

 

[buddythelion]

All you guys that mention cutting the rock haven't considered those of us with rocks too big to remove from the tank.

Then you're out of luck, lol. In those cases then your pieces become display.

 

How do you even find 2 year old threads.

[Acielot]

Of all the threads about fragging zoanthids you have to necropost on one from 2010?

 

Oh but yeah what buddy said^ +1

 

 

 

Edit a second necropost.....

[sjnovakovich]

Then you're out of luck, lol. In those cases then your pieces become display.

 

How do you even find 2 year old threads.

Well its easy to find two year old threads... Google a topic like "trim back zoanthids" and you get results that include lots of old posts. LOL. I knew sombody would hit me up for how old this thread was, but it was very relevant to the information that I was seeking. I'm not really interested in "fragging" the zoas per se, but rather reducing the size of the colony. I'm leery of cutting them off the rock in the tank because I'm afraid they will release a toxin that will nuke everything.

[buddythelion]

Well its easy to find two year old threads... Google a topic like "trim back zoanthids" and you get results that include lots of old posts. LOL. I knew sombody would hit me up for how old this thread was, but it was very relevant to the information that I was seeking. I'm not really interested in "fragging" the zoas per se, but rather reducing the size of the colony. I'm leery of cutting them off the rock in the tank because I'm afraid they will release a toxin that will nuke everything.

Oh, don't worry about that! Just try to make a clean fragging session as possible. Make cuts between the polyps to split them and then cut under the rock so you don't tear their base.

[sjnovakovich]

Thanks!

[dtitus1]

What would you guys say about fragging polyps off new frags to combine different ones? Can I just peel the whole cluster off the plug, slice, and glue?