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ID please - encrusting gorgonian/xenia


Angry-Monkey

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Angry-Monkey

I posted this picture in my member gallery with the title "encrusting gorgonian" and there were a number of people who commented on the picture stating that it was a xenia.

 

Im relatively new to the hobby but I have looked at many pictures of xenia and I'm pretty confident that this is not one.

 

I received the piece from a friend of mine that has been in the hobby for ~6 years and he told me that it was an encrusting gorgonian.

 

This coral is growing over a piece of macro algae, using the macroalgae as its base. This is not something that I have seen in any xenia I have looked at. For lack of better words it is "encrusting" over the dead macro. There is another piece in my tank which is on a branch (which my friend informed me was a piece of dead gorgonian of another species).

 

I have looked around online and admitably, most gorgonians i have found do not look like this. Although I did find one, the "corky finger", which did resemble my coral in a few photographs.

 

Any help?

post-18392-1141670581_thumb.jpg

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look under the information link at the top of the page there is a coral database.

using the functions of this site takes up less bandwith and cuts down on repetative lame posts that could have been avoided if the poster would not be too lazy to look.

 

 

here I did the looking for you, i would click on the link for you but I am not there.

 

http://www.nano-reef.com/corals/?coral=21

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Angry-Monkey
look under the information link at the top of the page there is a coral database.

using the functions of this site takes up less bandwith and cuts down on repetative lame posts that could have been avoided if the poster would not be too lazy to look.

here I did the looking for you, i would click on the link for you but I am not there.

 

http://www.nano-reef.com/corals/?coral=21

 

 

 

Right.

 

I've seen a xenia before. This is a picture of the piece I posted before next to the piece that I added in after my friend's tank experienced a little crash.

 

It has not opened yet. That's what the other one looks like when it's closed. Do these two look like xenias to you?

 

Notice how the larger one is growing up the stick, it is not supported by its own stalks.

post-18392-1141673055_thumb.jpg

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Hey welcome to nano-reef angry-monkey

Most people here are not so rude amd impatient with newcommers.

:slap: ebin

 

I have no experience with xenia growth.

Your 1st pic does loook like xenia and the 2nd one could be but i dont know.

 

I wanted to let you know we are nice and helpful here!

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Nice pink encrusting gorgonians, but the stalks on yours are a bit longer, you probably have better or worse lightning, but im 90% sure they are pink encrusting gorgonians, watch out they take over quickly.

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SaltwaterGoldfish?

definetely not Xenia...

 

the 'Encrusting Gorgonian' is Erythropodium caribaeorum... and your specimen certainly looks like it could be that... though there are other gorgonian species that can encrust, the "Corky Sea Finger' Briareum asbestinum among them...

 

Cheers,

Joe

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Angry monkey:

if you know what xenia is then why in your first post did you post what is clearly xenia and nothing else asking what it was?

 

Goldenmean:

As a matter a fact we are nice and helpful here. that is why there have been many hours put into the site setting up informative links and articles.

I simply pointed out that there is search, and informative links on nano-reef that can be very helpful, educational and informative. bandwith costs the administrators here money. I remember when all the features of nanoreef were free, there were no need to set up memberships and such to keep the site going.

 

Some here feel that nano-reef is a drivethrough window to answer the same questions over and over, and over, and over...well you get the just of it.

 

the starter of this thread was asking if the pic posted was xenia. it took me less than 4 seconds to type xenia in the search box at the top my screen and one click to come up with the answer to his question. not only did I answer his question but I explained how to quickly find answers to his questions should he have some in the future.

 

 

and furthermore goldenmean reread your post you were of absolutely no help to the thread, my reply however was a clear cut answer to the question. but hey what do I know I only came to his thread and answered precisely what he asked.

next time you feel like getting all thread police on someone try the search button yourself then come up with a little bit of quality stuff to post along with it, your "i have no experience with xenia growth" was of little help.

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SaltwaterGoldfish?
Angry monkey:

if you know what xenia is then why in your first post did you post what is clearly xenia and nothing else asking what it was?

 

Goldenmean:

As a matter a fact we are nice and helpful here. that is why there have been many hours put into the site setting up informative links and articles.

I simply pointed out that there is search, and informative links on nano-reef that can be very helpful, educational and informative. bandwith costs the administrators here money. I remember when all the features of nanoreef were free, there were no need to set up memberships and such to keep the site going.

 

Some here feel that nano-reef is a drivethrough window to answer the same questions over and over, and over, and over...well you get the just of it.

 

the starter of this thread was asking if the pic posted was xenia. it took me less than 4 seconds to type xenia in the search box at the top my screen and one click to come up with the answer to his question. not only did I answer his question but I explained how to quickly find answers to his questions should he have some in the future.

and furthermore goldenmean reread your post you were of absolutely no help to the thread, my reply however was a clear cut answer to the question. but hey what do I know I only came to his thread and answered precisely what he asked.

next time you feel like getting all thread police on someone try the search button yourself then come up with a little bit of quality stuff to post along with it, your "i have no experience with xenia growth" was of little help.

 

 

The perturbed monkey stated clearly in his post that he did NOT think his specimen was Xenia... therefore posting a link to an article about Xenia is a waste of bandwidth in itself... now had you taken the minute or two it took me to research encrusting gorgonians you may have actually been able to provide something useful to this forum instead of belittling our Angry Primate friend for asking his question...

 

Cheers,

Joe

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Angry-Monkey

If you re-read my post you will see that I did not think that it was xenia, I thought that it was an encrusting gorgonian. I had posted this picture in my member gallery stating what I thought and there were a number of rude comments left telling me that it was a xenia. I decided that I would post to the forum and get more opinions.

 

Two members have already posted confirming that this is an encrusting gorgonian. Obviously you have your opinion and I'm sure you know a lot more than I do. But you have two other people here, one who is 90% sure that it is a pink encrusting gorgonian (scoot), the other is who definetely sure that it is not xenia (saltwatergoldfish).

 

A third, Bobalouy, posted to say that xenia do not close like the coral I posted and so that it could not be a xenia.

 

I notice you have not addressed any of these posts and have instead only focused on goldenmean's. How can you say that I posted "what is clearly xenia and nothing else" after these other people have expressed their opinions?

 

Goldenmean, thank you. I have been lurking the forums for about a month or two and I have seen a lot of good and friendly advice given. I was a bit put off by some of the rude reactions but I can understand where they're coming from. From ebin's perspective I posted a picture of a xenia and asked if it was a xenia. This is obviously not the case, but it doesn't really matter.

 

Scoot, it's likely that I'm running them under less light. I have a 20w 50/50 over a 5gal hex.

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Angry monkey:

you did not get my opinion on it being xenia and not gargonia I showed you with the INFORMATION DATABASE on nano-reef that it IS xenia. seeing that multiple members here are correcting you as to what it is why would you skip doing research to ask more opinions in a thread?

 

 

saltwater goldfish:

actually he posted a picture of what he had... it is still there at the top I posted a link to the xenia, as it is what he posted a picture of claiming it was told to him it is encrusting gargonia.

 

reread the first 2 posts let it slowly sink in. Again he asked what the pic he posted was I told him what it was (xenia) and also posted a very informative link on it's care and other useful info for the exact coral he posted!

 

 

I know you would like to make me feel sad for being harsh about it but please don't try it will not work on me (i simply don't care). Wait till you have been here more than a month and you too are sifting through the same 5 questions over and over and over again to get to some informative threads. better yet wait till you have been doing it over 2 years. Just be glad I answered it was xenia some here would have thrown out real harshness, rether than my brash tuff love on the subject.

 

 

 

 

 

 

angry monkey you originally posted only a pic of xenia. it is right there in the first 2 posts. there is only xenia in that pic in the start of the thread if it is not xenia i will eat it!

here is what you first posted

qwzsyc.jpg

here is a pic of xenia from the article I posted for you.

qwztkw.jpg

how much more clearcut do you need it.

now posting another pic further in the thread does not change what you first posted.

 

you posted that pic asking if it was xenia or gargonia.

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Angry-Monkey
Angry monkey:

you did not get my opinion on it being xenia and not gargonia I showed you with the INFORMATION DATABASE on nano-reef that it IS xenia. seeing that multiple members here are correcting you as to what it is why would you skip doing research to ask more opinions in a thread?

 

angry monkey you originally posted only a pic of xenia. it is right there in the first 2 posts. there is only xenia in that pic in the start of the thread if it is not xenia i will eat it!

here is what you first posted

 

here is a pic of xenia from the article I posted for you.

 

how much more clearcut do you need it.

now posting another pic further in the thread does not change what you first posted.

 

you posted that pic asking if it was xenia or gargonia.

 

 

I dont blame you for your attitude, I understand completely.

 

I read up on xenia and looked at several pictures and that's why I posted. The information database, if anything, reinforced my opinion that it is not xenia. The information page clearly states that the polyps on the xenia do not retract. These ones do, quite a bit. Into little nubs.

 

I have the coral right in front of me (on my desk next to the computer) and I can tell you that it does not have a stalk. Xenia is kind've like brocolli in its structure. The coral I have is ENCRUSTING on a piece of macroalgae. It does not stand on its own. The second picture I posted is of two specimens of the EXACT SAME coral. I can get a picture of the same coral in the first picture when it is closed so that you can see.

 

Would you like fries with your coral? Im actually considering giving up my poor little guy if you're willing to send pictures of you eating it.

 

Here's another picture which I hope will convince you.

 

On the left is the frag shortly after I got it, you can see that a few of the polyps are starting to open, but most are closed.

 

To the right, all the polyps are open. This shot includes more of the macroalgae, you can clearly see that the coral is growing on the algae, and that it does not have a stalk like xenia.

 

post-18392-1141681934_thumb.jpg

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what was the point of asking the question and placing a picture of xenia while asking? there is no need for the first pic it you already know it is xenia.

 

you make no sense why not post the latter pic in the original post, rather than the clear pic of xenia?

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Why would you even argue this? EBIN is spot on, w/ his evidence, and arguments.

This is CLEARLY Xenia, unhealthy, but, Xenia nonetheless.

YES, Xenia does close up like that, and if the polyps don't retract, then it is not EG.

D

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SaltwaterGoldfish?
Angry monkey:

you did not get my opinion on it being xenia and not gargonia I showed you with the INFORMATION DATABASE on nano-reef that it IS xenia. seeing that multiple members here are correcting you as to what it is why would you skip doing research to ask more opinions in a thread?

saltwater goldfish:

actually he posted a picture of what he had... it is still there at the top I posted a link to the xenia, as it is what he posted a picture of claiming it was told to him it is encrusting gargonia.

 

reread the first 2 posts let it slowly sink in. Again he asked what the pic he posted was I told him what it was (xenia) and also posted a very informative link on it's care and other useful info for the exact coral he posted!

I know you would like to make me feel sad for being harsh about it but please don't try it will not work on me (i simply don't care). Wait till you have been here more than a month and you too are sifting through the same 5 questions over and over and over again to get to some informative threads. better yet wait till you have been doing it over 2 years. Just be glad I answered it was xenia some here would have thrown out real harshness, rether than my brash tuff love on the subject.

 

ebin darling, the pictures posted above are not Xenia... they ARE an encrusting Gorgonian (though I won't be so bold as to put a species name to it; a picture's worth a thousand words, and a dissected specimen is worth a thousand pictures)... I have Xenia in my tank... I've seen encrusting Gorgonians in others' tanks... yes, they are vaguely similar... but anyone who has seen them both can tell them apart easily...

 

Angry Monkey was very astute to not take as fact the incorrect identifications given to him... I would not tell him to take my identification as the gospel truth, but instead use it as a starting point in his own research... it likely is just Erythropodium caribaeorum... but without a dichotomous key to the Octocorallia (if one even exists) an exact ID is beyond the scope of this humble forum...

 

... and I don't see what my being around in these forums for only a few months has to do with my abilities to identify a specimen... I have a degree in invertebrate zoology with a focus on systematics... I also have years of experience in reefkeeping (both as a hobby and an occupation)... and in my humble opinion, anyone who is mature enough to maintain a reef aquarium should be mature enough to respond respectfully and politely to a question asked

 

Cheers,

Joe

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Angry-Monkey
what was the point of asking the question and placing a picture of xenia while asking? there is no need for the first pic it you already know it is xenia.

 

you make no sense why not post the latter pic in the original post, rather than the clear pic of xenia?

 

 

All pictures that have been posted are of the exact same piece of coral. What are you saying? That the first picture is xenia and that the rest of the pictures i have posted are not?

 

If that's the case, then the coral I have is awesome because it can change itself between shots.

 

 

FLoorlord, I dont know if you have read any of my posts but yours confuses me as much as ebin's latest one. The infrmation database here on NR states that "the polyps [of xenia] are not retractable". Are you saying that that is true or not? The polyps on my piece DO close up.

 

You said "and if the polyps don't retract, then it is not EG." But I clearly stated that they do... and I posted two pictures in which the polyps were closed up.

 

What evidence? What arguments? A link was posted to a xenia info page. As stated earlier, that reinforced my opinion that it was not a xenia. Then a picture of xenia was posted. I can see as many differences as similarities between my coral and the xenia picture when posted side by side.

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neanderthalman

Wow, this thread got out of hand fast ;)

 

To toss my vote, I don't beleive that the specimen in question is a xeniid. As floorlord added "If the polyps don't retract fully, then it's not EG". I'd like to add a similar statement. If the polyps retract fully, then it's not xenia.

 

A cursory glance at the photos tells me that the polyps are, in fact, fully retracting into the coral. The polyps on xeniids curl up into little balls and pull tight to the stalk of the coral, but don't retract into the body of the coral.

 

While I can't identify the specimen as an Encrusting Gorgonian, I can confidently say that the coral in question is NOT xenia.

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qwzsyc.jpg

xenia

 

as for the rest of the pics I don't really care about as this is what you posted, and I originally replyed to.

 

glld fish

you not being on these boards was in reference to not seeing the same thread over and over again.

and please if you have the education you say you do why don't you explain the differences to us surely the structuring of a soft coral should be an easy one for someone of your education to explain.

furthermore joe i am not obligated to politely give replys to any thread, just because I did not kiss A$$ while answering does not matter, what matters is I answered the question, with a link and also info on how to properly find more info on the site. thats alot more than you have given with your fancey degrees and good polite character.

 

floorlord thanks for seeing that i am only pointing out the first 2 posts in this thread.

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Wait till you have been here more than a month and you too are sifting through the same 5 questions over and over and over again to get to some informative threads. better yet wait till you have been doing it over 2 years. Just be glad I answered it was xenia some here would have thrown out real harshness, rether than my brash tuff love on the subject.

 

I have an idea! if it pains you so greatly to reply to post such as this......dont! :o

There are plenty of other people out there who dont mind answering easy or even redundant questions if it helps a new reefer out. If you cant say anything nice....

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Angry-Monkey

Personally, I don't really care about ebin being nice or not.

 

Ebin, please look at the pictures from post #12. If you somehow do not believe me that all the pictures I have posted are of the same coral, you cannot deny it in this case.

 

In post 12 I have put together two pictures of the same coral from my first post. The picture on the left was taken a few days earlier. THe picture on the right was taken either a few seconds before or a few seconds after the picture I posted at the start of the thread. The reason I posted it is because there is a much clearer view of the macroalagae that is being encrusted.

 

I know that you are firmly set in your opinion, but can you atleast be rational and take a look at the pictures?

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I know Ebin. This is a classic case of over-thinking.

I have had xenia, of all different shapes and sizes, and, YES, your pic, looks exactly what a peice of xenia looks like when it is either, closed, or dying, which I think the latter based on the amount of die-off, from pic to pic.

I had beautiful Pom-Pom all over my tank, that looks JUST LIKE what Ebin directed you to, well, one day my heater broke, and guess what, they shriveled, and looked exactly like this.

D

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SaltwaterGoldfish?
qwzsyc.jpg

xenia

 

as for the rest of the pics I don't really care about as this is what you posted, and I originally replyed to.

 

glld fish

you not being on these boards was in reference to not seeing the same thread over and over again.

and please if you have the education you say you do why don't you explain the differences to us surely the structuring of a soft coral should be an easy one for someone of your education to explain.

furthermore joe i am not obligated to politely give replys to any thread, just because I did not kiss A$$ while answering does not matter, what matters is I answered the question, with a link and also info on how to properly find more info on the site. thats alot more than you have given with your fancey degrees and good polite character.

 

floorlord thanks for seeing that i am only pointing out the first 2 posts in this thread.

 

actually bobalouy did a pretty nice job of answering that...

 

I found a little more info that should help narrow this down between genera (courtesy of J. Sprung):

 

"This encrusting soft coral is easily and often confused with encrusting Briareum. In fact they are not closely related, Erythropodium being a closer relative of the knobby gorgonian Diodogorgia nodulifera, which is azooxanthellate. Erythropodium has zooxanthellae, so it is brown. The underside of a colony has a purple color due to purple sclerites. The polyps of Erythropodium caribbaeorum are brown, without stripes, and form elongate hair-like tentacles in strong water motion. When the polyps are withdrawn, the calyces are lighter than the rest of the surrounding tissue, so they appear as light spots. In Briareum asbestinum the closed polyps are darker than the surrounding tissue."

 

hope this helps...

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aulonocara:

I see you came and posted nothing of real importance. thanks for playing!

 

 

Now that I have compleately beat the first picture to death. (and that is all you first posted!) having just the first pic to go off it is xenia. how I gave it is what I am arguing. it was informative, and gave advice on gathering info.

 

post 12's photo still makes me think xenia, sick xenia that is shrunken and unhealthy whitch I have seen will look like it is encrusting the rock as it recedes to nothing.

 

it is post 3 that has the pic that makes me raise an eyebrow and it is not gargonia i am thinking... the same piece you have posted in the first pic still looks like sick dying xenia to me but the stuff on the branch you point out looks a bit like some gsp I had a while back. it too had a similar peach/pinkish mat, but the polyps that extended were a dull light/transparent green.

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Angry-Monkey
I know Ebin. This is a classic case of over-thinking.

I have had xenia, of all different shapes and sizes, and, YES, your pic, looks exactly what a peice of xenia looks like when it is either, closed, or dying, which I think the latter based on the amount of die-off, from pic to pic.

I had beautiful Pom-Pom all over my tank, that looks JUST LIKE what Ebin directed you to, well, one day my heater broke, and guess what, they shriveled, and looked exactly like this.

D

 

 

Or a classic case of under-reading. Die off between pic to pic? There are three time-frames in the pics I have posted, and they are not in order. How you came to your conclusion I have no idea. I suppose that you are trying to insinuate that I have a poorly maintained tank and that I am killing my corals.

 

This is not, and never has been a xenia.

 

Saltwatergoldfish, I guess what I gather from your post is that my coral is neither Erythropodium caribbaeorum or Briareum asbestinum as it is not brown and when the polyps are closed up they appear to be slightly lighter than the rest of the body.

 

 

Now that I have compleately beat the first picture to death. (and that is all you first posted!) having just the first pic to go off it is xenia. how I gave it is what I am arguing. it was informative, and gave advice on gathering info.

 

post 12's photo still makes me think xenia, sick xenia that is shrunken and unhealthy whitch I have seen will look like it is encrusting the rock as it recedes to nothing.

 

it is post 3 that has the pic that makes me raise an eyebrow and it is not gargonia i am thinking... the same piece you have posted in the first pic still looks like sick dying xenia to me but the stuff on the branch you point out looks a bit like some gsp I had a while back. it too had a similar peach/pinkish mat, but the polyps that extended were a dull light/transparent green.

 

Are you just trolling now? I was enjoying this conversation until I realized that you were ignoring everything I say.

 

Im getting tired of this. Thanks to all those that helped clear things up, Im now confident of my original identification. Goldfish, it's doubtful that we'll be able to attach a species tag to this but thanks for trying

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