Phil F Posted February 6, 2006 Share Posted February 6, 2006 Under, I've been reading this thread, and it seems if I go with a 10000K MH I don't need an actinics? Sorry that this is alittle off topic but no one is posting tank sizes. I am setting up a 30g, and I was planning on going with a DIY MH setup from Hellolights (http://www.hellolights.com/17methalretk.html) I'm wondering if 175W would be sufficient, or if I should go with the 250W setup they have. Thanks, Phil Link to comment
proraptor Posted February 6, 2006 Share Posted February 6, 2006 Id go with a 250 watt myself on a 30 gallon but I like my tanks super bright! Link to comment
Undertheradar Posted February 6, 2006 Share Posted February 6, 2006 With 10,000K, or even 6500K, you dont 'NEED' actinics...that is correct. But your coral coloration and the bulbs output might not be blue enough for your liking. Link to comment
Haagenize Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 how about a 14,000K then? Link to comment
chrisyew Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 Hi UTR, Thanks for the great details on actinics. Juz some questions to clear my doubts; 1. So are the corals (though not all) exhibit more growth under the 420nm or 450nm actinics? 2. I come across some cheap blue T5 and T4 blue tube meant for signboard but the light spectrum is not stated. Do you have any idea if it's blue light, (probably means within the 400nm to 470nm range), the corals will still exhibit growth and don't have to be exactly at 420nm or 450nm? 3. In the deep sea, I understand that the blue spectrum can penetrate the deepest instead of other light spectrum. Thus if we have a deep tank, it's good to have the blue spectrum. But for nano tank, if the normal 10K light can penetrate right to the bottom of tank, is there still a problem of coral growth?? I do agreed that some coral the green pigment may not shown under the 10K light but will show under the blue spectrum. But is this really mean that it does not grow or juz didn't shown up the color only. Sorry about the lengthy questions as I'm always confused about these light issues. Thank you. Link to comment
Undertheradar Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 drowning, the PFO mini-pendants and icecap ballasts with pheonix 14,000Ks are exactly what I have been using. The SLS are also nice. I think that the PFO is the nicest reflector however. chrisyew, Actinics are 420nm that is purple, 420nm is the blue spike that a pheonix 14,000K has loads of. Here, the master wrote a good intro on the subject for this month... http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/sj/index.php Not even public aquaria are able to use 10,000Ks with enough water depth to change the water blue by the time it hits the lower depths. IME, the bluer the bulb, the more vibrant the coral pigments become...and its not just the way that the light shows the coral. If you take that coral that has been growing and gaining color under a 20,000K and put it under a 10,000K you will still see those pigments. Also, something that really effects some corals pigmentation is the flow. Seems odd, but its true. The more and better a coral can feed, the better coloration it shows. The zeovit method is an example of this. So besides good light...keep that flow up. Link to comment
Daemonfly Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Most of the talk so far has been with MH and their larger range of output. But, if you use any type of fluorescent, then the output spectrum is quite narrow, depending on brand. Fluoros were only breifly touched upon in the thread. I'd say it's pretty safe to say that you'll generally need actinic supplementation if using only fluoros, i.e. T5, VHO, PC, etc... Some bulbs have a spike in the actinic range, but usually pretty small. 50/50 bulbs would be better than a straight 10k, for example, but still couldn't tough the output spectrum of a good MH bulb. Some of the high-quality bulbs do have a very nice output though. I actually like the aspect of T5 fixtures where you can have 4x or 6x bulbs. This could give you a lot more options of mixing & matching different bulbs for a good spectrum range. Link to comment
Ricepicker Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 I didn't bother reading all of the above.... I'm gonna give you the short version if you're anything like me corals grow best 6500-6700K Zooxanthallae need actinics, the blue between 420-470nm to photosynthesize Zooxanthellae help coral grow, coral waste fertilize zooxanthallae symbiotic relationship. you want to keep coral alive? get actinic. why do we use 10000K+? cause it resembles natural sunlight the best IMO. Link to comment
pulse13 Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Undertheradar, you have your wavelengths mixed up. 420nm is violet and 450nm is deep blue. True actinic fluorescent tubes pruduce a spike at 420nm, not 450nm. Link to comment
Undertheradar Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 pulse13, I have been listing 450nm as the blue peak and 420nm as the actinic peak...dont think that its mixed up anywhere... Ricepicker, you should have just read the first text I wrote...it covers all of what you said, and it shows 'why' for some things like why the 6500K halides are such great growers (because they have a huge actinic and blue output really). But you say "you want to keep coral alive? get actinic."...that just isnt true. Unless you get some halide that is yellower than a 6500K, you can bet that whatever halide you are using will have a significant peak in the 450 blue and 420nm purple ranges. Daemonfly, that is very true. Most phosphor based lighting doesnt have the broad range that halide has where you can pretty much bet on a good peak somewhere on the lube half of the spectrum. So, in that case, actinics are more of a necessity for growth...not so much there just for looks anymore. I also like the choices for the T5s. I experimented with a 4x54wattT5 setup over a 40L for a bit, and I liked the results (I even had to end up taking out one bulb and just running 3x54watt because the intensity was too great for some lower light corals and my higher light acros didnt seem to mind). The thing that jumps out at me are the variety of colors you can use to get whatever combo you like. Unlike VHOs and PCs, T5s arent just about using a 10,000K and actinic to try and get a complete spectrum...they have 6500K, 10,000K, 10,000K, blue, and actinic for a more complete spectrum. Those blue+ bulbs are real growers too. So in the case with T5s and other phosphor based lighting systems, the actinics and blue bulbs really take on an important role...not just for looks anymore. I was so impressed with the output of the T5s that I have decided to set up a permanent system (but then I cant use the 4' system because I just dont have anywhere to set it up permanently...the 40L was on the floor). I am going to try a 40B with a 4x39watt Icecap retro. With these systems, the blue and actinic become important...I will most likely run 1x10,000K, 2xblue+, and an actinic. Cant wait to see how the corals like it. Link to comment
pulse13 Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 True actinic 03 is 420nm which is purple. 450 is BLUE. How do you figure otherwise? Here is a quick example from a google search. http://www.cem.msu.edu/~reusch/VirtTxtJml/...is/spectrum.htm And from a search on www.reefkeeping.com : http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-03/atj/index.php Link to comment
Undertheradar Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Oops, Oh crap...I just wasnt seeing it. I mixed the two up. Im gonna go back and edit everything now...lol. Link to comment
Undertheradar Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 ok, finished the edit. You are 100% right... I musta wrote my first response late one night or something...but as soon as I wrote the two mixed up I just kept on writing the two backwards...OOPS! Seriously, I know what Im talking about here (like anyone will believe me now, eh?!). LOL. Good eyes pulse13. Link to comment
pulse13 Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Yeah you definately seem like you know your stuff, I figured you just got your spectrum turned around in your head. Link to comment
Haagenize Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 i still trust you Undertherader Link to comment
podBoy Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 You trust him? Just look at his flag!!! He's a coral PIRATE!!!! He's just lulling you into a false sense of security so he can pinch your corals man! Avast!! I'll slit your gullet you scurvy dog!!!! Beware!!! Beware!!! His flag has stopped flapping though. . . . Seriously though, that's a very forgiveable flipflop of the brain. Link to comment
Haagenize Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 lol too bad i dont have any corals he can pinch =D Link to comment
Undertheradar Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Just got back from a fun evening. You guys are too much !!!! Link to comment
Haagenize Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 share your "fun" evening with us =D Link to comment
Undertheradar Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 I went to the liquor store last night. They had a special on 1800. I bought the 1.75 L of blanco (and a 1.75 of reposado). Then I bought some strawberry liquor, and triple-sec. I had a couple bags of frozen strawberries and a blender sitting at home. Long story short, last night I went over to a friends house with it and a bunch of us got smashed on margaritas. Its fun for me because I hardly ever get the chance to drink at all...engineering and all. Link to comment
neanderthalman Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 I hear you on the engineering man. I've finally got a chance to get loaded tonight, and there happens to be a kegger down the street. PERFECT! Link to comment
JHipkin Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 A great source for lighting facts is http://www.reeflightinginfo.arvixe.com/. This is Sanjay Joshi's site. He has just published the first of a series of articles about light in the Feb edition of Reefkeeping Mag. Let there be light. Link to comment
Haagenize Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 I went to the liquor store last night. They had a special on 1800. I bought the 1.75 L of blanco (and a 1.75 of reposado). Then I bought some strawberry liquor, and triple-sec. I had a couple bags of frozen strawberries and a blender sitting at home. Long story short, last night I went over to a friends house with it and a bunch of us got smashed on margaritas. Its fun for me because I hardly ever get the chance to drink at all...engineering and all. tell me when your drunk again so i can steal your tank Link to comment
Undertheradar Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 JHipkin, That is a nice page, but you have to know how to read spectral graphs and have a good idea what to expect based on seeing some of the listed lights. That link that I posted on page 2 provides a good background for interpreting that scientific data, which happens to be the same thing you posted a link to. Are you reading the thread before you post? Lol. Link to comment
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