lgreen's Ultimate Guide To Nano Fish

[Tyrsdottir]

well there isnt much info for these two species period.

 

I found this http://www.saltcorner.com/sections/zoo/fis...ts/Pdutoiti.htm

 

but they have very little on the other one.

[Northernblades]

WOW

I think I have a new best friend.

 

after I get over the severe case of mental constipation I will try again.

 

I have looked through a few of the reef forums, and this. this is absolutly amazing.

 

I have kept fresh water fish for a very long time, and just starting to look into salt. and this. post was and is amazing.

 

if it is as acurate as it apears to be. having it stickied would help me out imensly. in adition to some one on one help this might push me over the edge.

[weaselphd]

Fish Stocking Guide For Nano Reefs

 

By lgreen (copyright 2005-2007)

 

Table of Contents

 

I. Introduction

II. How To Use This Guide

III. Feeding Suggestions

IV. Nano Fish Compatibility

V. Nano Fish Listed By Tank Size (Updated w/ Seahorses!)

VI. Nano Fish Listed By Major Groups w/ Detailed Info

VII. Bibliography & Acknowledgments

 

Copyright lgreen 2005-2007

 

Very helpful.... Thanks for posting it...

[kcrancer]

Yeah thanks man

[bigdogue]

good news for dragonet fans,cultured copepods are now available.they aren't cheap.that fish place has them for $18.00 for a small bottle.i'm going to try to keep a manderin dragonet in my new 20 gal in a few months after it cycles and settles down.will let you know how it goes good or bad.

[Chris2500dk]

Though I know it's unpopular, as they really aren't reef fish, all common freshwater livebearers could be used in a reef tank. Mollies certainly live in saltwater in the wild, and can quickly be adjusted to it, though some of them like sail-fins probably aren't nano-fish. Guppies and Endlers have been used in nano reefs after being acclimated. I'm considering setting up an "Endler Pico" mainly because they're quite possibly the smallest reef-capable fish in the market, and more ethical to use than wild-caught options. Presumably Platys could be conditioned almost as easily as Mollies, but I'm not sure why anyone would bother.

 

Boring choices compared to real reef fishes? Sure. But they're worth listing.

 

They're good sources of live food for the other fish.

[CoreyK]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but:

 

In your puffer section, I believe you are confusing puffers with boxfish.

While puffers do indeed store toxin, it is stored internally and lacks any method of delivery. Besides consumption, it is simply not possible for a puffer to "release" tetrodotoxin. The only way I can see them being dangerous due to their toxicity is if they are eaten by other fish.

Boxfish, on the other hand, can and will release toxin when threatened, and will frequently when dying/dead.

[tangboy]

Lime Stripped Goby in my8g BC is awesome!

[crash43]

could u send a good link or two on the lime stripe goby? thanx

[andykee]

when did you copyright this lg?!?

[lgreen]

when did you copyright this lg?!?

 

huh?

[clifford513]

Hehe! Obscure references tickle me.

[lgreen]

smart ass

[jefferzbooboo]

Couple things abou the puffers:

 

"puffers in that they do carry toxin and have the ability to wipe out an entire tank if stressed or killed. When stressed you may see them puff up. DO NOT try to make them puff up just for fun unless you want to risk killing it and everything in your tank"

 

Puffers don't emit toxins, Box fish do but thats a different species. Only way for a puffer to kill another fish is by being eaten by the puffer, or eating the dead puffer. Every puffer I've ever had (I've had 5 different SW, 7 total) thats puffed up, after they go hide. I've never seen one go on a killing spree.

 

About the puffers and tank size, none of those should be in anything less than a 55 IMO.

[lgreen]

Couple things abou the puffers:

 

"puffers in that they do carry toxin and have the ability to wipe out an entire tank if stressed or killed. When stressed you may see them puff up. DO NOT try to make them puff up just for fun unless you want to risk killing it and everything in your tank"

 

Puffers don't emit toxins, Box fish do but thats a different species. Only way for a puffer to kill another fish is by being eaten by the puffer, or eating the dead puffer. Every puffer I've ever had (I've had 5 different SW, 7 total) thats puffed up, after they go hide. I've never seen one go on a killing spree.

 

About the puffers and tank size, none of those should be in anything less than a 55 IMO.

 

Incorrect. Boxfish are a type of puffer. I agree that a puffer must be consumed to poison a fish, however, puffers have tetrodotoxin w/in their liver/gonad area that potentially could wipe out a tank maybe if the fish died and just sat there and degraded. It doesn't take much tetrodotoxin to do a lot of damage.

[jefferzbooboo]

Incorrect. Boxfish are a type of puffer. I agree that a puffer must be consumed to poison a fish, however, puffers have tetrodotoxin w/in their liver/gonad area that potentially could wipe out a tank maybe if the fish died and just sat there and degraded. It doesn't take much tetrodotoxin to do a lot of damage.

If any fish dies and sits there its almost always bad for the tank. It would take awhile for a puffer to degrade that bad, by then water tests should be off and you should know somethings wrong.

[lgreen]

If any fish dies and sits there its almost always bad for the tank. It would take awhile for a puffer to degrade that bad, by then water tests should be off and you should know somethings wrong.

 

Meh. I've sold fish for six years and never once seen a fish's death have the slightest significant effect on the overall health of the tank. Now if you lost a whole tank of fish, yeah, you might see a spike, but again, not typically from losing 1 or 2 fish. If you do see an effect, your tank is over stocked or under maintained, or too small of a tank.

 

Fish degrade pretty fast. A fish can die and bristle worms/crabs can have them pretty much taken care of with in 24 hours.

 

I've never had a puffers death impact a tank because I've always removed them in time. I'm not saying it is going to happen, just acknowledging the potential risk.

[Cobalt]

I really don't agree with many parts of this list. My main concern is that most of the fish listed for the 20 and 30g tanks will outgrow their tanks. A flame hawk in a 20g tank? And more importantly, why is there a minimum and ideal guideline?? We all should be keeping our fish in "ideal" environments. Remember, 99% of saltwater fish were robbed from the ocean. We have to respect the life we are housing and give it the best environment we can. I'm not trying to be righteous but if people want lots of color in their tank they should focus on corals.

Edited February 4, 2008 by Cobalt

[lgreen]

I thought I explained this already at least once, but again, this information is a cumulation of my experience, what is commonly accepted and practiced by other nano reefers, and what is suggested in books by experts. I disagree with your generalization that "most" of the fish listed in the 20g and 30g category will out grow their tanks. That is your opinion. I am totally receptive if you want to make specific suggestions and/or I'd be glad to take a closer look at particular issues you see for particular fish. However, I'm not going to just go change a whole tank size category of fish based on your opinion.

 

Again, I am trying to be a reasonable person. Some people follow the rules, while some people (especially those who are more experienced) tend to fly closer to the wire with things. I am simply trying to make this guide work for a variety of people. A minimum tank size sort of says bottom of the line, this is the smallest tank you should put this in. The ideal tank size however, is more directed to the average joe and new joe to give them give them advice that will help ensure success.

[herranton]

I thought I explained this already at least once, but again, this information is a cumulation of my experience, what is commonly accepted and practiced by other nano reefers, and what is suggested in books by experts. I disagree with your generalization that "most" of the fish listed in the 20g and 30g category will out grow their tanks. That is your opinion. I am totally receptive if you want to make specific suggestions and/or I'd be glad to take a closer look at particular issues you see for particular fish. However, I'm not going to just go change a whole tank size category of fish based on your opinion.

 

Again, I am trying to be a reasonable person. Some people follow the rules, while some people (especially those who are more experienced) tend to fly closer to the wire with things. I am simply trying to make this guide work for a variety of people. A minimum tank size sort of says bottom of the line, this is the smallest tank you should put this in. The ideal tank size however, is more directed to the average joe and new joe to give them give them advice that will help ensure success.

Don't listen to them....This is one of the best threads ever.

[Lynden]

Incorrect. Boxfish are a type of puffer. I agree that a puffer must be consumed to poison a fish, however, puffers have tetrodotoxin w/in their liver/gonad area that potentially could wipe out a tank maybe if the fish died and just sat there and degraded. It doesn't take much tetrodotoxin to do a lot of damage.

Boxfish are in the family Ostraciidae, and Puffers are Tetraodontidae. Calling boxfish a type of puffer is like calling a firefish a type of cichlid. Boxfish and puffers are under the same order (Tetraodontiformes), but it is wholly incorrect, as alluded to above, to refer to boxfish as a type of puffer.

 

A couple of other things to point out here RE puffers and toxicity... many puffers, especially Tetraodon, lose their toxin quite quickly after entering captivity for reasons not fully understood, though it is likely that it has to do with a certain food they no longer recieve in captivity. Therefore, even eating the puffer may not poison fish, so why should it's dead body? I do not think there is even a single instance of a puffer dying/stressing and poisoning the tank as they simply lack this ability. Boxfish do it all the time but their toxin is of a different variety; "ostracitoxin", as opposed to puffers' tetrodotoxin, and the method of synthesis is quite different.

 

...

 

As regards to the rest of the list, I find it to be fairly well done. I personally do not keep fish in under five gallons, but I think that people will find success following this list; for instance, clown gobies have reportedly been bred in tanks as small as a couple gallons. Fish breeding is a fairly indisputable piece of evidence that they are happy, in my opinion.

[10" Red Devil]

This guide is great!

 

I am not sure if this was covered. I do not think I saw this anywhere. I think people should be aware that a six-line wrasse caught from the Philippines is a lot different then one caught in Fiji! In this case the Fijian caught fish have a much better mortality rate. I do not know the exact reasoning on this, but it is true and I have experienced this. Actually fish caught in the Philippines tend to do a lot poorer then caught elsewhere.

 

I would like to see more on compatibility in these various size tanks to be truly thorough.

 

Just my 2 nuts.

 

Great job though!

[HankB]

Igreen and others who have contributed:

 

Many Thanks!!!

 

This is a great guide. I've raised freshwater fish off and on for decades and never really had a desire to go to saltwater. Last year SWMBO decided she wanted a marine tank. That thought remained on the back burner until we stopped to check out a LFS that I had passed but never stopped in. They had some awesome looking reef tanks and this has kindled her interest again. In particular, the self contained units got her attention. So we're planning to get a tank and see what we can do.

 

I'm looking for the reef equivalent of the zebra danio or tiger barb - something that we're most likely to achieve success with. If she retains interest - and success would go a long way toward encouraging that - she may lean toward more exotic and difficult stock. Then again, maybe she'll be satisfied with a population of robust and compatible organisms.

 

The information you have in your article gives us a pretty good starting point on some choices. Were I to suggest any improvements, I might ask that you pick out the absolute best candidates for first time nano-reefers and mark them with a special icon or something like that.

 

thanks again,

hank

[dopamine]

I did a search for this web link and this thread came up first but I still didnt see it in here....

 

http://fins.actwin.com/species/thumbnails....mp;c=13&f=2

 

The lay out with links and how to sort by either picture/scientific name /or common name works real well.

 

edit: that one was on the clown link, here is the one for more SW fish.

http://fins.actwin.com/species/index.php?t=1&f=2

Edited March 12, 2008 by dopamine

[lgreen]

Igreen and others who have contributed:

 

Many Thanks!!!

 

This is a great guide. I've raised freshwater fish off and on for decades and never really had a desire to go to saltwater. Last year SWMBO decided she wanted a marine tank. That thought remained on the back burner until we stopped to check out a LFS that I had passed but never stopped in. They had some awesome looking reef tanks and this has kindled her interest again. In particular, the self contained units got her attention. So we're planning to get a tank and see what we can do.

 

I'm looking for the reef equivalent of the zebra danio or tiger barb - something that we're most likely to achieve success with. If she retains interest - and success would go a long way toward encouraging that - she may lean toward more exotic and difficult stock. Then again, maybe she'll be satisfied with a population of robust and compatible organisms.

 

The information you have in your article gives us a pretty good starting point on some choices. Were I to suggest any improvements, I might ask that you pick out the absolute best candidates for first time nano-reefers and mark them with a special icon or something like that.

 

thanks again,

hank

 

I like that idea. Beginner fish are now colored green.