Crinoids - The definition of Irony

[MrAnderson]

i like outspoken females.

 

 

BTW I second tiny's post about outspoken females.....

 

 

I 3rd it.

 

 

I fourth that unless its in the l3itchy way.

 

 

buncha herbs, stop grovelling

[RayWhisperer]

Most everything you say bothers the hell out of me RW, but that was just damn funny... maybe we can learn to live together in the end.

 

 

Jared

 

I didn't know I bothered you.... I'll try to post more to your liking in the future. Thanks

 

 

Edit: P.S. you might also like my post in SH's longspine urchin thread just below this thread

[ebin]

I think what ebin may be getting at is how defensively Caesar777 often responds to different opinions and how inflammatory she can be, quite possibly not knowing just how it may sound to a reader. We all agree that Caesar has plenty of experience and knowledge that can be quite valuable to many on this forum. However, to imply that beginner reefers are like "children" and that explanations need to be "simplified" indicates to me the root of where some of the disagreements may be coming from. In my opinion, it is quite disrespectful to call someone a noob, moron, or idiot because they ask a simple question that any beginner or quite possibly, more experienced reefer may ask. These "noobs" could be PhD scientists or fairly educated individuals with many years of real life applied biological knowledge and animal experience that just may be new to the world of nanoreefing. Do you still think that you need to "simplify" your explanation to these people? Would you still refer to these individuals as "children" and yourself as an "adult"? Do you really think that your 6 years of working in a reef store trumps their ability to understand your explanations at "your level"? This is where I think people take offense. Believe me, I think most on this site can give criticism much better than they can take it but they refrain, and so should you. Its an open forum for free discussion no matter how ridiculous or "insignificant" the response may be to a more "experienced" reefer.

 

Hit what really bothered me on the nose, thanks.

 

Ebin, do you support the forced euthanasia of terminally ill patients? I'm talking about people here. Just curious.......

 

Ill humans and feather stars can't be but in the same ring together be realistic.

 

 

o-really?

 

 

Who needs match.com when you got nano-reef.com

 

 

So, going in tune with that logic, seeing pipe organ coral in a tank means that any novice can go and buy one, and kill it due to lack of knowledge. This of couse means that pipe organ shouldn't even be seen in stores at all. While we know that pipe organ coral aren't doomed with impossible survival rates, don't you think that looking at crinoids as such is a little stupid? Granted they aren't understood enough to be taken care of properly, at least they will educate some people. What's to keep someone from seeing one in a book and going out to buy one? If people really want to keep them they'll find a way.

 

Remember, just because you see a ad in a magazine for something, that doesn't mean you immediately go out and get one.

 

Some livestock should be sold with a bit of discrestion. I can talk to a person for 1 minute and figure out if they can keep a mandarine fish, sps, a clam, tang. As I posted earlier 2 lfs sell crinoids near me. If somebody buys one oh well. But to keep one and say no you can't have one cause you are an idiot is wrong

 

 

HMMMM.... May have something here. I don't know if it is possible to back track on Ceasars earlier posts and graph them. It may show us that she is a bit more testy towards noobs and those who disagree with her during a certain week of the month.....

 

You are just grumpy about the up coming break in a winning streak. lol

 

Most everything you say bothers the hell out of me RW, but that was just damn funny... maybe we can learn to live together in the end.

 

Jared

 

We gotta take the good, the bad, and the ugly...it's the net

 

bpatrol when the crinoid balls up I assume this is the equavilent to when a anemone balls up after eating? do you target feed? do you run your water a little "dirty" compared to pristine? The crinoids I have seen tend to stay in one place is this what you too have observed? or do they wander much?

[bpatrol]

the feather star is a filter feeder but may feed on copepods found in an established aquarium. I do not target feed and run a clean tank with a urchin pro as a skimmer with 4x96 watt vho's..my feather star rarely moves but he does every few days. i feed my tank 1 cube emerald entree every other day and feed spectrum thera g on opposite days

bpatrol

 

 

quote name='ebin' date='Dec 6 2005, 06:07 AM' post='662356']

Hit what really bothered me on the nose, thanks.

Ill humans and feather stars can't be but in the same ring together be realistic.

Who needs match.com when you got nano-reef.com

Some livestock should be sold with a bit of discrestion. I can talk to a person for 1 minute and figure out if they can keep a mandarine fish, sps, a clam, tang. As I posted earlier 2 lfs sell crinoids near me. If somebody buys one oh well. But to keep one and say no you can't have one cause you are an idiot is wrong

You are just grumpy about the up coming break in a winning streak. lol

We gotta take the good, the bad, and the ugly...it's the net

 

bpatrol when the crinoid balls up I assume this is the equavilent to when a anemone balls up after eating? do you target feed? do you run your water a little "dirty" compared to pristine? The crinoids I have seen tend to stay in one place is this what you too have observed? or do they wander much?

[Caesar777]

Before I finish reading the page, gotta note: "However, to imply that beginner reefers are like "children" and that explanations need to be "simplified""

 

NOT AT ALL what I meant to imply. KNEW someone would say it, though.

 

EDIT: Let me add what I DID mean by it, haha. I was trying to point out only that you change your voice to suit your audience. I'm not talking about "dumbing down" what you say--I'm saying you might say, upon seeing a dead fairy wrasse, "Damn, lookit that dead-ass mo-f***a!" to your coworkers, but you might not want to say it in front of children, who are sensitive not only to cussing, but to the concept of death. (See, again I use children in the analogy. They're just easy to use!)

[Caesar777]

Sooo, back to this thread. (No, it didn't take me that long to read it--left for some easy "what's this slim-ay thang?" posts and came back.) A lot went on while I was gone!

 

Ebin, the only reason I seem to get "uppity" is when people are wholly confrontational. See, I don't get mad at MillerLite because he puts things in quite the eloquent way, and I respect that. I don't respect someone jumping up and shouting "hypocrite!" and then running away. Express your opinion in a reasonable way, and I'd respect that. See, you came up later and explained things, and it could have been done to begin with. At least a little bit.

[Caesar777]

Heyyy, PS, I never saw Tiny's photos in the "pic of yourself" thread....

[ebin]

Sooo, back to this thread. (No, it didn't take me that long to read it--left for some easy "what's this slim-ay thang?" posts and came back.) A lot went on while I was gone!

 

Ebin, the only reason I seem to get "uppity" is when people are wholly confrontational. See, I don't get mad at MillerLite because he puts things in quite the eloquent way, and I respect that. I don't respect someone jumping up and shouting "hypocrite!" and then running away. Express your opinion in a reasonable way, and I'd respect that. See, you came up later and explained things, and it could have been done to begin with. At least a little bit.

 

 

I still think the same as when I first posted in this thread. I tried to post my opinion and go on with my day but to reply with a insult was something I should have expected from you. Thats your style. Personally I think little of you. Making people feel small who come here for help because they aren't as reef savy as you is kinda sad. but hey thats your flavor. this thread went to hell fast lucky bpatrol was nice enough to throw some good post in there. Take a deep breath of how you talk down to members here I said it earlier you aren't better than anyone.

 

slap yourself. Maybe it will help you keep a better bedside manner.

 

every time you talk god punches a baby

[Caesar777]

Wow.

[c est ma]

Really hate to add to this thread but just want to thank MillerLite for some very thoughtful and needed input. Glad to see bpatrol chime in, too. After the ad hominems came the strawmen: "it's all about uppity wimmin..."

 

No, it's about being civil. And accepting that grown-ups can hold different opinions. And about feeling more comfortable on a board without name-calling.

 

--Diane

[jmorris]

I think people just need thicker skin. If your really so mature, why does being called a moron bother you so much? Shouldn't others opinions of you not matter?

 

Jared

[tinyreef]

Heyyy, PS, I never saw Tiny's photos in the "pic of yourself" thread....

it's an old college pic though.

 

Really hate to add to this thread but just want to thank MillerLite for some very thoughtful and needed input. Glad to see bpatrol chime in, too..

it's like a car wreck. most people can't help but look. i only rubberneck on the internet.

 

No, it's about being civil. And accepting that grown-ups can hold different opinions.

i completely agree.

[reefout]

the bottom line here is if you say something stupid, you have to expect that people are going to hold you responsible for it.

it was really stupid to suggest that the best thing to do is to flush a creature down a toilet and kill it. what kind of advice is that?? no advice at all, just a stupid, uneducated, inflammatory statement.

i have many years experience with sw wholesellers and jobbers, as a general rule, they DONT take things back, and secondly, they dont offer you credit for individual creatures that die from an order, you have to "lose" a certain percentage of the order before they give you any credit at all. so when they "fill" an order with stuff you didnt even ask for, you are pretty much stuck with it, this happens every day with the large wholesale companies, ie; SDC, QM, ERI...

so if you want to be ticked off at someone, and you should be as a responsible hobbyist, write those companies a letter!!! if you could all see the amount of creatures that perish from these companies business practices you would be horrified!!!

so, ebin et all, put the blame where it belongs, why pick on ceasar777 for attempting to offer these creatures a chance at survival?

 

im sticking with my "tard of the month" statement, sorry

[Jermz79]

So putting all this bickering aside .....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Can someone give me a link so I can buy a Crinoid???

 

 

 

JUST KIDDING ... SHeeeeeesh!!

[Schwazreef]

I think people just need thicker skin. If your really so mature, why does being called a moron bother you so much? Shouldn't others opinions of you not matter?

 

Jared

 

Exactally. I think people forget sometimes that were typing posts, not talking face to face. We have time to compose our resposes, and tweek our burns in such a way that they zing.

 

Personally I think thats why alot of people post and why posts like this are very addicting to read. There is also, I believe, a lot of young people here who tend to be a bit more full of moxy, and its all part of sharing your ideas in this format.

 

Moron IMO is a pretty mild inslut.

[ebin]

I think people just need thicker skin. If your really so mature, why does being called a moron bother you so much? Shouldn't others opinions of you not matter?

 

Jared

 

No it boils down to nobody here can put and or talk down to another member here for silly reasons like not being able to keep algea down, knowing stocking limitations, water param problems, ect... This is something ceasar is very commonly doing. Ceasar gets away with it way too much. as we have seen here by many jumping to her defense. I really am not bothered by ceasars comment as what really bothered is the way she talks to people here is accepted.

 

 

the bottom line here is if you say something stupid, you have to expect that people are going to hold you responsible for it.

it was really stupid to suggest that the best thing to do is to flush a creature down a toilet and kill it. what kind of advice is that?? no advice at all, just a stupid, uneducated, inflammatory statement.

so, ebin et all, put the blame where it belongs, why pick on ceasar777 for attempting to offer these creatures a chance at survival?

 

im sticking with my "tard of the month" statement, sorry

 

What is so stupid about what I offered? ceasar said herself the crinoid will die. I offered up just getting rid of it now and saving it from a slow death. or send it back weather the wholesaler takes it back or not it would no longer be ceasar's problem anymore. those are 2 options, while those 2 options may not be your choice they are 2 more than what you offered up. Lets see what you offered....oh yea you called me a tard and said my options were crap. gee big help thanks

 

I offered 2 solutions and gave my opinion on the situation. these forums are designed to do exactly that.

[neanderthalman]

For the record, I think that flushing the feather stars is exactly the same as euthanizing the sick or elderly. I value all life, not just humans.

 

Flushing harmful creatures is more akin to executions, should anyone bring up that point. It doesn't stop it from being difficult, but it is sometimes necessary.

 

When I suggested you offer up options Ebin, I should have elaborated further. Try offering up a viable alternative.

[tinyreef]

I offered 2 solutions and gave my opinion on the situation. these forums are designed to do exactly that.

exactly, you both offered opposing views and both staunchly are defending them and being accusatory to/at each other.

 

but i don't think caesar or ebin have been extraordinarily vicious or mean (otoh, i saw espi raw and live so i may be callused a bit). can either of you be truly nasty? i'm sure you're both capable of it, most people are.

 

but just as ebin's accusing caesar of not accepting his alternative, he's just as defensive when his views aren't being accepted by her or others (imo).

 

it's been said ad nauseum, people will disagree. accept the disagreement or debate it civilly. i actually prefer the uncivil way, it's much more entertaining for those of us in the peanut gallery. <popcorn-munch>

[ebin]

For the record, I think that flushing the feather stars is exactly the same as euthanizing the sick or elderly. I value all life, not just humans.

 

Flushing harmful creatures is more akin to executions, should anyone bring up that point. It doesn't stop it from being difficult, but it is sometimes necessary.

 

When I suggested you offer up options Ebin, I should have elaborated further. Try offering up a viable alternative.

 

Do you kill aptasia in your tank?

 

What about the meat you eat? those animals are life.

you a vegitarian? the salad you eat are made of plants...they are alive.

 

According to your method of thought, Basically we should eat dirt to save innocent life.

 

You canadians kill me with kindness.

 

Tiny:

good post. I only hope ceasar will think more before talking. as I said god punches babys when she talks. (canadians hate punched babys too by the way )

[MillerLite]

Really hate to add to this thread but just want to thank MillerLite for some very thoughtful and needed input. Glad to see bpatrol chime in, too. After the ad hominems came the strawmen: "it's all about uppity wimmin..."

 

No, it's about being civil. And accepting that grown-ups can hold different opinions. And about feeling more comfortable on a board without name-calling.

 

--Diane

 

Nicely put Diane.

 

As far as needing thicker skins, I dont suppose I do. As mentioned, I believe that anyone can be nasty and disrespectful, but why bother. If you cannot present your suggestions and ideas in a constructive and nice way, then why bother saying anythng at all. I definitely find no value in anything that is said with disdain or anger. You definitely wont help the situation and why would you believe for a second that you will change his/her mind with hostility. If nothing else, you push them into defending their ideas more strongly, even if they might not be the best idea.

 

Oh, and I do like the intense debate as much as the next guy. But lets save these for the advanced topics section of the forum, and not in the beginner section where I have seen many a great thread go into the dumpster because of the back and forth bickering... (PS. I am aware we are in the advanced section now before anyone tried and correct me on this! )

 

Lets keep it nice, and pleasant and save all the rest for the in-laws over the holidays. Happy holidays!!!

 

Oh yeah, what were we talking about? Something about crinoids?

[neanderthalman]

If you read the text you quoted, instead of just quoting it blindly, I already brought up the issue of harmful pests. Yes, I kill apstasia. Yes, I will flush mantis shrimp. Yes, I will use flatworm exit. To do so there is a point, a goal, and that goal is to allow for other life, and more variety of life, to flourish. Life cannot exist without death, just as death cannot exist without life. Killing creatures without purpose, however, is unnecessary.

 

That said, killing creatures to eat them is fine - there's a purpose. Killing a creature to protect the rest. Fine.

 

Killing an animal because you disagree with it being kept in aquaria is similar to, say, killing another human because you disagree with them living in your area based on religious beliefs. You just shouldn't do it. That's why flushing the poor creature - who is a victim, not a pest - is out of the question.

 

I hate salad.

[tinyreef]

Oh yeah, what were we talking about? Something about crinoids?

huh? what?

 

i thought this was about getting all those "outspoken women" to post pics of themselves?

 

i just wasted the last 24-hours reading/posting to drivel about crinoids??

 

wtf is a crinoid??

[deacon hemp]

LOL....funny thread this one.

[Lingwendil]

According to your method of thought, Basically we should eat dirt to save innocent life.

 

Wait, isn't some dirt made of the remains of dead/decomposed plant life? Then what can I kindly eat? I'm so confused!

[MillerLite]

huh? what?

 

i thought this was about getting all those "outspoken women" to post pics of themselves?

 

i just wasted the last 24-hours reading/posting to drivel about crinoids??

 

wtf is a crinoid??

 

Oh yeah..thats right..thanks for reminding me. Ok ladies, lets see 'em..If you are truly as "outspoken" as they say...